[Book Spoilers] Is Aegon truly gone for good?

[chet stark]

the show is already bad without Lady stoneheart... but to cut Aegon is going to be really bad... he must be important!!!.... I don´t think George would bother to write so much about him in the last books if he isn't that important!

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

I am going to assume that Young Griff/Aegon is just a fake pretender or else dies in the books. Obviously, he wasn't significant enough to the series for D & D to include his S/L arc. Same goes for Victarion.

[ADanceWithCats]

I think he pretty much is. I'm also happy with this decision, I never liked this storyline.

[Lord Varys]

Show stuff means nothing in regards to the books. Note that Maggy's prophecy omitted the valonqar. Cersei may not be killed by Jaime in the show but it is very likely that he is going to kill her - figuratively or literally - in the books.

The Greyjoys are also obviously important in the books as they get lots and lots of chapters. That the show did change that does not mean they are not important. It means they wanted or had to change stuff.

We have also completely changed characters in the show - like Littlefinger. This does not mean that George's plans for the future makes it necessary that the show Littlefinger is adapted as an outright evil and moronic pimp-plotter. Yet that's what the show did, basically.

If they are dead-set to end the show after 7 seasons it makes sense to cut Aegon and a lot of other stuff - Stannis should be killed soon, too, to get rid of loose ends - but this does not mean the cut plot lines from the books are unimportant.

[dannyk65]

Show stuff means nothing in regards to the books. Note that Maggy's prophecy omitted the valonqar. Cersei may not be killed by Jaime in the show but it is very likely that he is going to kill her - figuratively or literally - in the books.

^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

I also find no reason to believe Aegon will be in the show after last night's episode....

[ni2tre]

I think Varys' comments confirmed it. Unless he was, of course, lying.

He said he and Illyrio met after Robert was crowned King and they realised he would be a bad King (something like that: I saw the show translated). In books, whether is truth or not, their plan seemed to have preceded the Rebellion. In the show, they seemed to have been fine with Robert until they saw the need to replace him with someone fitter. Luckily for them, Dany and Viserys were still alive. By the time Robert was crowned, Aegon and Rhaenys were dead.

Crap, I didn't even catch that. Let's hope he was lying, but I can't see why he would about this.

['96Buck]

I think Varys' comments confirmed it. Unless he was, of course, lying.

He said he and Illyrio met after Robert was crowned King and they realised he would be a bad King (something like that: I saw the show translated). In books, whether is truth or not, their plan seemed to have preceded the Rebellion. In the show, they seemed to have been fine with Robert until they saw the need to replace him with someone fitter. Luckily for them, Dany and Viserys were still alive. By the time Robert was crowned, Aegon and Rhaenys were dead.

Well it certainly wouldn't be the first time Varys has shaded the truth. If anything, the default expectation should be that he's not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He gave explanation enough for his purposes right then, with Tyrion.

[Ruin]

Not sure what they're doing with Varys. I hope this is all a ruse, but I doubt it. Its a disgrace.

[PatrickStormborn]

If they are dead-set to end the show after 7 seasons it makes sense to cut Aegon and a lot of other stuff - Stannis should be killed soon, too, to get rid of loose ends - but this does not mean the cut plot lines from the books are unimportant.

Now this I can agree with. :)

[teezax]

I hate that they do this, it just makes the readers second guess the relevance of certain characters: Arianne, Aegon, Mance, Viktarion, Euron, etc.

['96Buck]

I certainly get where people are coming from, but IMO, the episode merely opened the door that there MIGHT not be a Young Griff storyline. It would be easy enough for "ride to Meereen" actually mean "ride horses (or a wagon) to a boat, then ride that boat part of the way, then ride horses/wagon again to Meereen." If I say I'm going to "fly to New York" it doesn't preclude driving to the airport first.

That ride solely by horse would be ridiculous, anyway. It's way too far to get them there in time to be responsive to the political situation in Westeros, and has to take the "Demon Road" that seems a bit much for Varys and Tyrion, or cross the Dothraki Sea. Neither has a very reasonable expectation of success.

Not telling Tyrion about Griff means nothing...he wasn't told about him the minute he fell out of the crate in the book, either.

[PatrickStormborn]

I hate that they do this, it just makes the readers second guess the relevance of certain characters: Arianne, Aegon, Mance, Viktarion, Euron, etc.

I wouldn't really worry about that. All those characters have already done significant things in the books. I doubt any of them will survive till the end, but that does not mean they're not relevant.

I certainly get where people are coming from, but IMO, the episode merely opened the door that there MIGHT not be a Young Griff storyline. It would be easy enough for "ride to Meereen" actually mean "ride horses (or a wagon) to a boat, then ride that boat part of the way, then ride horses/wagon again to Meereen." If I say I'm going to "fly to New York" it doesn't preclude driving to the airport first.

That ride solely by horse would be ridiculous, anyway. It's way too far to get them there in time to be responsive to the political situation in Westeros, and has to take the "Demon Road" that seems a bit much for Varys and Tyrion, or cross the Dothraki Sea. Neither has a very reasonable expectation of success.

Not telling Tyrion about Griff means nothing...he wasn't told about him the minute he fell out of the crate in the book, either.

The Griffs have not been cast, so it doesn't matter.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Te problem with fAegon being in the show now is

1: Who saved him? It cant be Varys because why would Varys accompany Tyrion Mereen if fAegon was around?

2: The main complaint everyone has about the believability of fAegon is that he showed up so late in the series. Best way to combat that would have been for Varys to just flat out tell Tyrion in this episode that Aegon is alive and that they were going to meet him.

When Tyrion says "Good luck finding him." Varys should have replied "I already have."

[Faint]

Note that Maggy's prophecy omitted the valonqar. Cersei may not be killed by Jaime in the show but it is very likely that he is going to kill her - figuratively or literally - in the books.

I have mentioned this elsewhere, but repeating myself: I think they are going to come back to the prophecy later, in stages, throughout the season.

['96Buck]

The Griffs have not been cast, so it doesn't matter.

That's no more indicative today than a week ago, though.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Te problem with fAegon being in the show now is

1: Who saved him? It cant be Varys because why would Varys accompany Tyrion Mereen if fAegon was around?

They could drop Varys' involvement and make Griff the only one behind the whole thing. Considering he loved Rhaegar, it would make sense he tried to save his children, but only cold save the boy and feels guilty about it.

That, or Jon is planning to put a fake kid, which I doubt, unless they drop his feelings for Rhaegar.

[Colonel Green]

The scene with Varys does not, on its own, mean that the fAegon plot is cut. I would say it remains theoretically possible that fAegon is in right up until Varys murders Kevan at the end of the season (and given Kevan's sudden reappearance after two seasons' absence, I guarantee you that's in this season, probably one of the last scenes of 510). If Varys declares his allegiance to Daenerys there, that's the ballgame.

But on a story level, I really don't think it makes sense to introduce Aegon at this point. The showrunners are still mapping as if it will be two seasons (with the length of the last season up for discussion). Scripts for season six are in the process of being written as we type. With all signs pointing to Dany's plot being accelerated, I expect she will invade Westeros in season 6, possibly in conjunction with the Martells, and the main event will be Dany vs. Lannisters. It remains possible we'll see Euron, since Cogman has kept hinting there's more to the Ironborn (or Yara, at least).

[Faint]

Beyond that, I think by the story choices they have made, Benioff and Weiss have shown themselves to be not enthusiastic with the new characters introduced in A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons.

They love the Lannisters. They want Daenerys against the Lannisters, not Daenerys against Aegon, a character they will have just introduced in the early stages of the sixth season.

[Lord Damian]

Tyrion will get on a boat and then we will know one way or the other. I think he is still in it, they are just being very secretive.

[Lord Varys]

Colonel Green,

I'm completely with you that Kevan is there to be butchered. Let's just hope it's the eunuch, and not, say, Ser Robert Strong deciding that he has finally implemented his plan to restore the Velaryons to the Iron Throne.

As to Varys' character:

He is pretty much the same guy as in the books but for a little white-washing. And he either lied when talking to Tyrion or the screen writers suck - they do that occasionally, hello there Jaime stabbing the mad king in the back and then correcting it.

Varys is

- a Lyseni by birth, and an apparent foreigner in Westeros, as in the books.

- on the Small Council since the reign of Aerys II, and the one arguing against opening the gates when Tywin, as in the books.

- an apparent Targaryen loyalist, as in the books.

- a former mummer who was castrated by a magician in his childhood, as in the books.

I'm not saying is going to show up for sure, I'm asking the question whether you guys think it makes sense to argue that the door has closed on him now or whether he could still show up - either as a boy raised by the Golden Company or the Martells (as Trystane).

This 'like-minded people' stuff is weird. Who is that supposed to be? Drogo? He was never on board with the whole thing, and there aren't any co-conspirators but Team Aegon and the Golden Company.

To speed stuff up and give the audience a huge suprise they could begin season 6 with Aegon attacking - and taking - KL. That's what he is set to do anyway, and there is no need to have him land in the Stormlands if time is an issue.

If Varys does not travel with Tyrion to Meereen - that is, if they separate on the way - then Tyrion may never learn that Varys wanted to meet the Golden Company and Illyrio/Aegon on the way. It would be the same as in the books where Illyrio also sells Tyrion the idea that they are backing Daenerys not Aegon.

And if Varys returns to KL and murders Ser Kevan after Cersei's fall from power I'd expect the scene to be much more powerful if he ends up not talking about Daenerys but about Rhaegar's son. Talking about Dany again after he has done it in the beginning of the season wouldn't be very powerful. Of course, he could also reveal his own Targaryen heritage - be it legitimate or illegitimate.

And if Trystane is indeed Aegon then Varys talking about him would be a good way to reveal that.

General stuff:

I'm not sure we'll get Daenerys' Conquest in the show. The show is weakening the Lannisters/Iron Throne the same way - perhaps even more (hello there broke Lannisters and non-existing Mace Tyrell) - as the books do, and with the Faith coming to power there should be no chance that the South will resist Dany's return. She could win the Iron Throne in, say, two episodes after her return. Perhaps only one - it may be enough that she flies over the city on dragonback, like Rhaenyra did.

Maggy stuff:

Jaime and Cersei are completely different characters. They are still a loving couple (or rather: again) in the show which they aren't in the books at that time. It makes no sense for book Jaime to actively fight against Cersei or even to harm or forsake her. I imagine he may end up in Dornish captivity or something like that which will explain why he cannot come to Cersei's aid at the end of the season.

The valonqar stuff simply wouldn't make any sense. Whereas the whole 'younger and fairer queen stuff' is an interesting twist to explain why Lena (not Cersei) begins to behave the way she has behave to end up where Cersei is at the end of the season. But there is no reason to include the valonqar stuff.