Good Guy Garlan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Killing Kevan for being too competent makes no sense for the altruistic show version of Varys. I mean, in the books it makes sense he wants to topple the fairly competent rule of Kevan/Margaery/Tommen because even if he says he cares about the realm we know that's bullshit and he really cares about AegonBut in the show, if he's really looking for a ruler loved by the smallfolk and with the right family name, well, there are Tommen and Margaery right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Killing Kevan for being too competent makes no sense for the altruistic show version of Varys.I mean, in the books it makes sense he wants to topple the fairly competent rule of Kevan/Margaery/Tommen because even if he says he cares about the realm we know that's bullshit and he really cares about AegonBut in the show, if he's really looking for a ruler loved by the smallfolk and with the right family name, well, there are Tommen and Margaery right thereThe answer is: He'll do it because he did it in the books, and it was a cool scene that the writers want to keep. Or possibly they will have Kevan pull a knife on Varys and Varys will be forced to shoot him with the crossbow he just happens to be holding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The answer is: He'll do it because he did it in the books, and it was a cool scene that the writers want to keep. Or possibly they will have Kevan pull a knife on Varys and Varys will be forced to shoot him with the crossbow he just happens to be holding.LOL! Or they will present Kevan as a dick so his murder would be justified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Varys has the altruistic side in both the show and the books. And I'm really inclined to believe that it is at the core of it. He does not want to kill Kevan, but he has to because Kevan stabilizes Tommen's government and poses a real threat to Aegon. Nothing suggests that Ser Kevan could really create a lasting peace - the thing Varys tries to create through Aegon - but he certainly could hold out long enough to destroy Aegon before he goes down himself. This is why Varys personally interferes there. If we have Trystane as Aegon in the show then Varys/Illyrio may work hand in hand with Prince Doran, and be forced to deal with Kevan because whatever Jaime/Bronn and Ellaria/the Sand Snakes do will reveal Aegon's existence, force Dorne into war, and compel Varys to do everything he can to ensure that Dorne and Aegon succeed - without Daenerys and her dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NymeriaWarriorQueen Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I hate that they do this, it just makes the readers second guess the relevance of certain characters: Arianne, Aegon, Mance, Viktarion, Euron, etc.I agree. Part of the joy and enthusiasm I had as a book reader was the formulation of all these theories to explain things. I was a detective trying to solve a huge mystery.....lol. If I was GRRM's publisher I would be pissed. Book sales would be greater IMO if he got the next book completed ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Blackberry wine was being served in Illyrio's house ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 This 'like-minded people' stuff is weird. I am sure that Doran is in the team too (as far as the show is concerned). But I hope they do not proceed with Trystane=fAegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Varys has the altruistic side in both the show and the books. And I'm really inclined to believe that it is at the core of it. He does not want to kill Kevan, but he has to because Kevan stabilizes Tommen's government and poses a real threat to Aegon. Nothing suggests that Ser Kevan could really create a lasting peace - the thing Varys tries to create through Aegon - but he certainly could hold out long enough to destroy Aegon before he goes down himself. This is why Varys personally interferes there. If we have Trystane as Aegon in the show then Varys/Illyrio may work hand in hand with Prince Doran, and be forced to deal with Kevan because whatever Jaime/Bronn and Ellaria/the Sand Snakes do will reveal Aegon's existence, force Dorne into war, and compel Varys to do everything he can to ensure that Dorne and Aegon succeed - without Daenerys and her dragons.I disagree. In time Kevan could've brought a lasting peace, just not the peace Varys wanted. It's also far from realistic to expect Aegon will bring lasting peace. Varys has to know Aegon will bring more war, but he just doesn't care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 - an apparent Targaryen loyalist, as in the books. A Targaryen loyalist would not be whispering in the ear Aerys about the betrayal of Rhaegar.You might call that an Aerys loyalist but not a Targaryen loyalist as Rhaegar is the Crown Prince Targaryen, and by all accounts would be a better King and future for the Targaryens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkRose_9 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Honestly, I got the feeling from the speech Varys gave that Aegon is not going to show up. It almost felt like a subtle jab at book readers, the way everything was phrased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I believe in the books that Varys is working towards the fulfillment of the AA/PTWP/3HotD prophecies. Except for Stannis' storyline, which they have made an incoherent mess of, D&D have avoided this aspect of the story almost entirely. In the books, these prophecies would indicate that there is something that the Targs are destined to do. I know that the Aegon is a Blackfyre and/or Brightflame or some type of fake are extremely popular theories. However, I would like people to at least try to imagine that Varys and Illyrio's end goal is bringing this savior figure into the world. At the start of the story V&I had Dany, Viserys and Aegon, three Targs/three dragonheads. It is obvious from what was said at the Gold Company that it was always the intention to bring all three of them together. In the books, this would mean Aegon is the son of Rhaegar and Elia because a feigned boy wouldn't fulfill the prophecy. Now, imagine that D&D are wanting to get rid of this part of story. Imagine that they don't want to incorporate the AA/PTWP/3HotD prophecies into the storylines of Dany or anyone else. What would that look like? One thing that would change is Varys' "for the realm" into "think of our country". Varys and Illyrio have done nothing but support Dany in the story so far. The only way to remove all the prophecy stuff is to turn V&I into Targ loyalists. Having said this, I think there is still the slight chance that Aegon may show up later this season in either the last or next to last episode. If he does, the prophecies will still be for the most part out. There are people who hate the prophecies and think the story would be much better without them. I think they are getting the chance to see that for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkRose_9 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I believe in the books that Varys is working towards the fulfillment of the AA/PTWP/3HotD prophecies. Except for Stannis' storyline, which they have made an incoherent mess of, D&D have avoided this aspect of the story almost entirely. In the books, these prophecies would indicate that there is something that the Targs are destined to do.<snip>Now, imagine that D&D are wanting to get rid of this part of story. Imagine that they don't want to incorporate the AA/PTWP/3HotD prophecies into the storylines of Dany or anyone else. What would that look like? One thing that would change is Varys' "for the realm" into "think of our country". Varys and Illyrio have done nothing but support Dany in the story so far. The only way to remove all the prophecy stuff is to turn V&I into Targ loyalists. Having said this, I think there is still the slight chance that Aegon may show up later this season in either the last or next to last episode. If he does, the prophecies will still be for the most part out. There are people who hate the prophecies and think the story would be much better without them. I think they are getting the chance to see that for themselves. Re the prophecy stuff:I'm not super into the R+L = J theory, but it's pretty much nonexistent in the show. It makes me wonder if D&D even care who Jon's mother is, after all the hype about them getting to make the show in the first place because their answer was satisfactory to GRRM. And if they do care, and it is important, (and R+L+J is real) how are they going to work that into the show after dropping a huge chunk of Bran's story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrion Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Aegon is OUT. As much as it pains me to say, hes out. They omitted the Volanqar but kept the younger more beautiful queen. This to me seems they are taking away the younger brother aspect and focusing only on the younger more beautiful queen. With Aegon out, who will Dany fight in Kings Landing? Why Cersei of course, and she is younger and more beautiful. In the books, Cersei will end up in Casterly rock after fleeing Aegon and Arianne probably. Then the Volanqar thing will happen. Show will skip all of that. remove Aegon and make the final showdown Cersei vs Dany. This brings the question though, what the hell will happen when Cersei is essentially stripped of her respect and power in Kings Landing at the end of the season? Will she just win her trial and prepare for Dany? Would be boring. Also, Cersei vs Dany will always proove to be boring since Dany has freaking dragons, whereas with Aegon its a given hell acquire dragons with how pissed off Danys Dragons are at her besides Drogon. A Targaryen loyalist would not be whispering in the ear Aerys about the betrayal of Rhaegar.You might call that an Aerys loyalist but not a Targaryen loyalist as Rhaegar is the Crown Prince Targaryen, and by all accounts would be a better King and future for the Targaryens Exactly, Varys hates ALL Targaryens in the books, as its his family houses main enemy. He supports Aerys over Rhaegar just because Aerys was worse for the Targaryens, just like how he supports Cersei over Kevan Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 And if they do care, and it is important, (and R+L+J is real) how are they going to work that into the show after dropping a huge chunk of Bran's story? Any number of ways? The viewers can find out however Jon finds out, if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I harboured some hope that Aegon would emerge in S6. Some subtle hints, Varys being vague. We skip the whole travelogue with Tyrion and S5 ends with talk of an army landing at Storm's End....well I lose that feeling. Unless the "truth telling" Varys is lying, he's team Dany from the start (why'd you try to set her up with Khal Pedo again?) I'm fine with it, but there is going to have to be a huge left turn coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkRose_9 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Any number of ways? The viewers can find out however Jon finds out, if nothing else. Hmm I just feel like any reveal at this point would seem to be coming from out of nowhere? But they still have a couple seasons left so who knows :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrion Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I think IF Aegon is in, this is an Episode 10 like reveal. They wouldnt just reveal him in Episode 1, doesnt seem like D&D's style. This would be huge if Doran reveals his son is actually Aegon. It would take the master plan quota that Doran needs(cause lets face it, Trystane and Myrcella are a love story and no way in hell will Trystane just leave Myrcella in the show and execute a Quentyn like story and Myrcella needs to be crowned even in the show they kept this prophecy....) Trystane=Aegon is the only that left now. If by Episode 10 it doesnt happen, write it off. Wont happen season 6. Season 6 and 7.1/7.2 are the climaxes, you dont introduce those characters during the climax, you introduce them before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hmm I just feel like any reveal at this point would seem to be coming from out of nowhere? But they still have a couple seasons left so who knows :dunno: The writers prefer shock to buildup, generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Aegon is OUT. As much as it pains me to say, hes out. They omitted the Volanqar but kept the younger more beautiful queen. This to me seems they are taking away the younger brother aspect and focusing only on the younger more beautiful queen. With Aegon out, who will Dany fight in Kings Landing? Why Cersei of course, and she is younger and more beautiful. In the books, Cersei will end up in Casterly rock after fleeing Aegon and Arianne probably. Then the Volanqar thing will happen. Show will skip all of that. remove Aegon and make the final showdown Cersei vs Dany. This brings the question though, what the hell will happen when Cersei is essentially stripped of her respect and power in Kings Landing at the end of the season? Will she just win her trial and prepare for Dany? Would be boring. Also, Cersei vs Dany will always proove to be boring since Dany has freaking dragons, whereas with Aegon its a given hell acquire dragons with how pissed off Danys Dragons are at her besides Drogon. Well Cersei has wildfire on her side... In the preview next week she says she will "burn ... cities to the ground", after saying "I will burn our house to the ground" back in 4x10. Combined with the recurring image of the burned throne room, I am confident in saying that Cersei will complete what Aerys Targaryen set out to do and burn King's Landing to the ground before Daenerys can take it from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The writers prefer shock to buildup, generally. True, but if they only have 2 seasons after this, or we will be generous and say 2.5, adding an Aegon arc would seem a little out of place with everything, including finally getting Dany to Westeros and dealing with the Others. It seems much more likely they cut him. I'm not even sure why in the show the Martells would be her antagonists--eg Tryst as a stand in for Aegon, she's a Targaryen and they hate the Tyrells and the Lannisters, the show Martells being anti Dany would be strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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