Evidence in support of Aegon

[Lord of Moat Cailin]

So, I believe in Aegon, possibly niavely, probably 90% because I want it to be true (wouldn't it be nice to have a Targaryen that says they'll invade Westeros and then actually does it) so, what is the evidence that supports Aegon actually being the son of Rhaegar, I havn't heard a ton, but I do like the evidence about Varys telling Kevan so as Kevan was dying.

[Lord Lannister]

Pretty much the say so of Illyrio, Varys and Jon Connington.

[Leonardo]

So, I believe in Aegon, possibly niavely, probably 90% because I want it to be true (wouldn't it be nice to have a Targaryen that says they'll invade Westeros and then actually does it) so, what is the evidence that supports Aegon actually being the son of Rhaegar, I havn't heard a ton, but I do like the evidence about Varys telling Kevan so as Kevan was dying.

The word of a known manipulator, who we know has misled people before, good people like Eddard Stark, just because it suited his gains. He let him think the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn when he knew it was Lysa and LF and helped start the war

It's the fact there is so much evidence for him being fake along with basic logical assumptions as well as historical inspiration. It's just too good a story to be true

[atheron70]

I think the issue with Aegon is the is zero actual evidence pointing to him being the real Aegon. As several other posters have mentioned, the belief in Aegon being real pretty much requires you to believe the words of Varys and Illyrio, two characters whose plots and schemes have mislead many a character and led to chaos. Maybe a reader can be convince by JonCon's firm belief that Aegon is real, but again he's really only acting on the words of Illyrio, Varys and Miles Toyne, who all MAY have been in league together with this plot.

[markg171]

I think the issue with Aegon is the is zero actual evidence pointing to him being the real Aegon. As several other posters have mentioned, the belief in Aegon being real pretty much requires you to believe the words of Varys and Illyrio, two characters whose plots and schemes have mislead many a character and led to chaos. Maybe a reader can be convince by JonCon's firm belief that Aegon is real, but again he's really only acting on the words of Illyrio, Varys and Miles Toyne, who all MAY have been in league together with this plot.

Well there's the fact that GRRM said that there will be a second Dance of the Dragons... and then he re-introduced Aegon in a book called A Dance with Dragons...

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

Basically all the same lines that people use as "proof" that he's a Blackfyre/fake.

Like the story of Long Jon Heddle.

When Podrick asked the name of the inn where they hoped to spend the night, Septon Meribald seized upon the question eagerly, perhaps to take their minds off the grisly sentinels along the roadside. “The Old Inn, some call it. There has been an inn there for many hundreds of years, though this inn was only raised during the reign of the first Jaehaerys, the king who built the kingsroad. Jaehaerys and his queen slept there during their journeys, it is said. For a time the inn was known as the Two Crowns in their honor, until one innkeep built a bell tower, and changed it to the Bellringer Inn. Later it passed to a crippled knight named Long Jon Heddle, who took up ironworking when he grew too old to fight. He forged a new sign for the yard, a three-headed dragon of black iron that he hung from a wooden post. The beast was so big it had to be made in a dozen pieces, joined with rope and wire. When the wind blew it would clank and clatter, so the inn became known far and wide as the Clanking Dragon.”

“Is the dragon sign still there?” asked Podrick.

“No,” said Septon Meribald. “When the smith’s son was an old man, a bastard son of the fourth Aegon rose up in rebellion against his trueborn brother and took for his sigil a black dragon. These lands belonged to Lord Darry then, and his lordship was fiercely loyal to the king. The sight of the black iron dragon made him wroth, so he cut down the post, hacked the sign into pieces, and cast them into the river. One of the dragon’s heads washed up on the Quiet Isle many years later, though by that time it was red with rust.

Blackfyre Aegon theorists will tell you to look only at the Purple text, and tell you it means a Blackfyre is "disguising" himself as a Targ.

Yet if you look further back at the Red text, you can interpret the sign to actually represent the Golden Company itself, with the change of color from black to red representing their loyalties.

Why would it represent the Golden Company you ask? Because the last time the GC tried to invade Westeros they were also hacked to pieces and cast back into the Narrow Sea.

It's also mentioned repeatedly that the GC is motivated by their desire to go home. It seems reasonable that they'd support whoever can accomplish that.

[Nozlym]

sorry dude but there isnt much evidence for him being ®aegon

and the world book pretty much shat all over the hopes of him being legit

[markg171]

sorry dude but there isnt much evidence for him being ®aegon

and the world book pretty much shat all over the hopes of him being legit

What did the World Book say?

[sleath56]

Well there's the fact that GRRM said that there will be a second Dance of the Dragons.. and then he re-introduced Aegon in a book called A Dance with Dragons...

Source?

[Nozlym]

What did the World Book say?

Lord to Fat laid it out pretty good in another thread so ill link it

2nd post

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/127287-aegon-perkins-warbeck/

[James Arryn]

There's not much in the way of 'evidence' either way; the preponderance of opinion is shaped by what people personally prefer to be true and a secondary aspect of narrative timing. Some feel it happens too late to really matter, others point out that theories of Aegon's survival have always been around and others just point to the late coming Henry Tudor as a model. None are IMO more valid than the other.

Either way, I tend to notice that people who are already on board a particular candidate's bandwagon have a higher degree of skepticism than people who either have none or at least none left standing.

[markg171]

Source?

CONCERNING THE DANCE OF THE DRAGONS

Hi, short question. Will we find out more about the Dance of the Dragons in future books?

The first dance or the second?

The second will be the subject of a book. The first will be mentioned from time to time, I'm sure.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1248

[Annara Snow]

Nothing in the prospect of a second Targaryen civil war requires Aegon to really be who he claims/says he is.

And I'm afraid the burden of proof is on Aegon and his supporters to prove he is Rhaegar's son; and all we have is the word of Varys and Illyrio. And a very convoluted baby swap story I find hard to believe - it seems much more likely Varys came up with it only after the Mountain killed Aegon and smashed his head to the point of being unrecognizable. For all we know, he may not even be a Blackfyre, but some random Lyseni child.

There's not much in the way of 'evidence' either way; the preponderance of opinion is shaped by what people personally prefer to be true and a secondary aspect of narrative timing. Some feel it happens too late to really matter, others point out that theories of Aegon's survival have always been around and others just point to the late coming Henry Tudor as a model. None are IMO more valid than the other.

The Henry Tudor model can be used to support the idea of Aegon winning, but hardly supports the idea of Aegon being really Rhaegar's son or not a Blackfyre, since Henry had a weak claim and was descended from a line of legitimized bastards that had been barred from the throne.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

It's also mentioned repeatedly that the GC is motivated by their desire to go home. It seems reasonable that they'd support whoever can accomplish that.

Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood and that they never break a contract because *Beneath the gold, the bitter steel*

Lord to Fat laid it out pretty good in another thread so ill link it

2nd post

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/127287-aegon-perkins-warbeck/

True. Everything we have points to the FAegon.

[James Arryn]

Nothing in the prospect of a second Targaryen civil war requires Aegon to really be who he claims/says he is.

And I'm afraid the burden of proof is on Aegon and his supporters to prove he is Rhaegar's son; and all we have is the word of Varys and Illyrio. And a very convoluted baby swap story I find hard to believe - it seems much more likely Varys came up with it only after the Mountain killed Aegon and smashed his head to the point of being unrecognizable. For all we know, he may not even be a Blackfyre, but some random Lyseni child. The Henry Tudor model can be used to support the idea of Aegon winning, but hardly supports the idea of Aegon being really Rhaegar's son or not a Blackfyre, since Henry had a weak claim and was descended from a line of legitimized bastards that had been barred from the throne.

Yes, the model I meant was in terms of the Wars of the Roses...GRRM's principal model...being decided by a very late arrival on the scene. I agree he works better as a Blackfyre in terms of his actual storyline.

[Olligarchy]

I find it less and less likely that (f)Aegon is Aegon and far more likely that he is Blackfyre with every new tidbit we learn about him.

[Moring the dragon]

I hope hes real cause then marwyn can heal daenarys' barreness and her and aegon can have load of little dragons together

[Lord of Moat Cailin]

I hope hes real cause then marwyn can heal daenarys' barreness and her and aegon can have load of little dragons together

My ideal world is Aegon and Dany ruling jointly like William and Mary with Jon Stark-Targaryen as their hand (and of course Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, just like his step-dad)

[Sword of the Morgan]

His Valyrian features can be seen as support, certainly not proof. The rest is the word of unreliable men, so overall not much evidence.

[aryagonnakill#2]

There is none. People have to get real convoluted to try and make some, like what Eiko Dragonhorn did. I've even heard people try to dismiss the contract written in blood line by saying it could mean they signed in blood like Stannis, clearly gibberish.