Who do you think will be the 13 POV characters at the start of WINDS?

[ChillyPolly]

Ohter confirmed unreleased chapters:

https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-complete-winds-of-winter-resource/

8. Dany (you'd think this one would be close to the beginning, yes)

9. Jon Snow (can't let that cliffhanger go for too long can we, or course, it's already been what, 6 years?)

10. Aeron Greyjoy (confirmed but nor released, and not necessarily at the beginning)

11. Bran Stark (confirmed, but not necessarily at the beginning)

12. Davos Seaworth (confrimed, but not necessarily at the beginning).

BryndenBFish is a bad source. Only Aeron Greyjoy has truly been confirmed. Most of these are reasonably probable, however.

[Arkash]

If I'm correct, George said "13 or so PoV", and I guess it's "or so", cause 13 seems to few for the first half of the book :

1 - Bran.

2 - Daneerys.

3 - Arya.

4 - Theon.

5 - Tyrion.

6 - Barristan.

7 - Victarion.

8 - Melisandre.

9 - Cersei.

10 - Jaime.

11 - Sansa.

12 - Jon Connington.

13 - Aeron Damphair.

That would leave out :

- Asha.

- Davos.

- Jon Snow.

- Brienne.

- Areo Hotah.

...

[ChillyPolly]

If I'm correct, George said "13 or so PoV", and I guess it's "or so",

We don't have his exact words in English. His words translated into French, can be found here:

http://webplus.imatin.net/tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/106194_george-r-r-martin-quot-j-aime-tuer-mes-personnages-quot

> Je jongle. Dans le tome 1, l'histoire est racontée à travers

> sept points de vue différents. Dans le tome 6, il y en a

> treize, je crois. En tout cas, au début du livre. Mais, à la

> fin, le nombre diminue.

Which translates back into English as follows:

> I juggle [? possibly a translation of “I have many balls in the

> air”?]. In book 1, the story is told across seven different

> points of view. In book 6, there are 13 of them, I think. In

> any case, at the beginning of the book. But at the end, the

> number goes down.

[The Sword of the Evening]

If I'm correct, George said "13 or so PoV", and I guess it's "or so", cause 13 seems to few for the first half of the book :

1 - Bran.

2 - Daneerys.

3 - Arya.

4 - Theon.

5 - Tyrion.

6 - Barristan.

7 - Victarion.

8 - Melisandre.

9 - Cersei.

10 - Jaime.

11 - Sansa.

12 - Jon Connington.

13 - Aeron Damphair.

That would leave out :

- Asha.

- Davos.

- Jon Snow.

- Brienne.

- Areo Hotah.

...

You're missing Arianne (confirmed) and Samwell Tarly

[three-eyed monkey]

We don't have his exact words in English. His words translated into French, can be found here:

http://webplus.imatin.net/tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/106194_george-r-r-martin-quot-j-aime-tuer-mes-personnages-quot

> Je jongle. Dans le tome 1, l'histoire est racontée à travers

> sept points de vue différents. Dans le tome 6, il y en a

> treize, je crois. En tout cas, au début du livre. Mais, à la

> fin, le nombre diminue.

Which translates back into English as follows:

> I juggle [? possibly a translation of “I have many balls in the

> air”?]. In book 1, the story is told across seven different

> points of view. In book 6, there are 13 of them, I think. In

> any case, at the beginning of the book. But at the end, the

> number goes down.

Thanks for the reference. So say 13, give or take one or two. There will still be 3 or 4 povs that will not make it into Winds, but I'm struggling to think who. Asha, Jon Con, one of Mel/Jon maybe. I'm just surprised that it seems some element of the story, like Davos or Sam maybe, will be dropped for a book or answered off-screen.

[nickdt]

Thanks for the reference. So say 13, give or take one or two. There will still be 3 or 4 povs that will not make it into Winds, but I'm struggling to think who. Asha, Jon Con, one of Mel/Jon maybe. I'm just surprised that it seems some element of the story, like Davos or Sam maybe, will be dropped for a book or answered off-screen.

Davos and Sam are to crucial to left out. Sam is our eyes in the Reach and Davos is our eyes in Skagos, our insight in there army and there williness to raise there banners for the Starks and Stannis. Basically, all characters are crucial at this point at the story. Maybe in the Theon one, Asha is killed and Vic is killed in Meereen, with Tyrion and Barristan left there. Dany is our eyes in the Dothraki sea for now. JonCon is our eyes in the Golden Company, since i don't think Arianne will make it before the battle of Storms End to Aegon and JonCon. Mel is our eyes on the wall, Cersei in KL, Jaime/Brienne in the Riverlands, Sansa in the Riverlands, Bran behind the wall and Hotah in Dorne, since Arianne has left there. And off course there is Arya.

[ChillyPolly]

Davos and Sam are to crucial to left out. Sam is our eyes in the Reach and Davos is our eyes in Skagos,

By similar logic Plogo the Furrier (a character I just made up) cannot be left out either because he is our eyes and ears at Sea Dragon Point; and Frumious Dalt (another character I just made up) is also essential, because he is our eyes and ears at Lemonwood.

You don't know what's essential to the plot. What we do know is that the story is supposed to be focusing on approximately six (6) characters, and they do not include Sam or Davos. Telling the story from the point of view of those six will mean that (with exceptions) we as readers will not know what they don't know.

GRRM has told us enough about Sam and Davos, so that he will not have to fill us in too much later when one of the main 6 find out about what they've been up to. Perhaps that's all we need to know, for now.

[nickdt]

By similar logic Plogo the Furrier (a character I just made up) cannot be left out either because he is our eyes and ears at Sea Dragon Point; and Frumious Dalt (another character I just made up) is also essential, because he is our eyes and ears at Lemonwood.

You don't know what's essential to the plot. What we do know is that the story is supposed to be focusing on approximately six (6) characters, and they do not include Sam or Davos. Telling the story from the point of view of those six will mean that (with exceptions) we as readers will not know what they don't know.

GRRM has told us enough about Sam and Davos, so that he will not have to fill us in too much later when one of the main 6 find out about what they've been up to. Perhaps that's all we need to know, for now.

I agree on this point with Davos (We can also see Skagos trough Bran via Weirwood). But there are no Weirwoords in the Reach and since Victarion is away with his IF, Sam is the only eyes left in the Reach. He is crucial, maybe to crucial. Some of us suspect him to find clues on how to defeat the Others (Not via Dragonglass).

[ChillyPolly]

I agree on this point with Davos (We can also see Skagos trough Bran via Weirwood). But there are no Weirwoords in the Reach and since Victarion is away with his IF, Sam is the only eyes left in the Reach. He is crucial, maybe to crucial. Some of us suspect him to find clues on how to defeat the Others (Not via Dragonglass).

You're still assuming we must find out everything in real time. We don't. It's time - or past time - to refocus the story on the 6 main characters. Regardless of whether or not they are clairvoyant, we can find out what they need to know when they find out.

You assume Sam is going to find out things that are crucial to defeating the Others. Would it not be better if one of the 6 main characters does that? We've got SIX of them, after all! Anyhow, I'm reasonably convinced Sam is already dead, last seen being led to his death by a faceless man at the end of AFFC. We will next see Sam (or Fake Sam) when Jon, Arya, Sansa, Dany, Bran or Tyrion meet him.

[Mithras]

You're still assuming we must find out everything in real time. We don't. It's time - or past time - to refocus the story on the 6 main characters. Regardless of whether or not they are clairvoyant, we can find out what they need to know when they find out.

You assume Sam is going to find out things that are crucial to defeating the Others. Would it not be better if one of the 6 main characters does that? We've got SIX of them, after all! Anyhow, I'm reasonably convinced Sam is already dead, last seen being led to his death by a faceless man at the end of AFFC. We will next see Sam (or Fake Sam) when Jon, Arya, Sansa, Dany, Bran or Tyrion meet him.

Of those six characters, Sansa and Arya make no sense as the characters to find out what is going on with the Others. Similarly, Tyrion and Dany also do not make any sense, considering that they will have done 6 books of almost nothing related to the Others (well, Tyrion pissed over the Wall so he is better than Dany). Therefore, Bran and Jon are the only main characters who are immersed in the Others story line from the beginning and might learn more about them. But at the same time, the library of the Wall contains lots of rare tomes that even the Citadel lacks and Sam is the only person we can expect to read them for us, not Jon.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Mercy shouln´t be an early POV

it will take time for Harys Swyft to reach Braavos, especially if Cersei has to return to power before he leaves ..(that will take time)...at least halfway through twow seems more likely..

[Steelborn]

What if this is only a rather bad estimate? As we know, we have nearly 20 POVs, out of those, only JonCon seems dispensable since Arianne is heading to Storm's End to meet him and maybe Asha and Brienne, both of whom might still have things to tell in the future (although it is unlikely).

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

What if this is only a rather bad estimate? As we know, we have nearly 20 POVs, out of those, only JonCon seems dispensable since Arianne is heading to Storm's End to meet him and maybe Asha and Brienne, both of whom might still have things to tell in the future (although it is unlikely).

i could be wrong, but i think its confirmed we will see the battle of Storm´s end.

[Nevets]

1. Tyrion

Theon

Arya

Barristan

Victarion

Sansa

Damphair

Arianne

These are confirmed for the book. Plus all are either preview chapters or removed from DWD, so likely in beginning.

1. Jon (the Wall)

Cersei (KL)

Dany

Brienne (BWB)

Bran

Later in book: Davos

Sam

Merged: Brienne / Jaime

Theon / Asha

Arianne / JonCon

I think Brienne has more story left than Jaime. She has to do something significant, and I think that will be finding and helping one of the Starks, probably Arya. Jaime's story is done, I think.

Theon can tell Winterfell, and Arianne can tell Storm's End

[ChillyPolly]

Of those six characters, Sansa and Arya make no sense as the characters to find out what is going on with the Others. Similarly, Tyrion and Dany also do not make any sense, considering that they will have done 6 books of almost nothing related to the Others (well, Tyrion pissed over the Wall so he is better than Dany). Therefore, Bran and Jon are the only main characters who are immersed in the Others story line from the beginning and might learn more about them. But at the same time, the library of the Wall contains lots of rare tomes that even the Citadel lacks and Sam is the only person we can expect to read them for us, not Jon.

We have no idea what "makes sense" because we have no idea what (if anything) still needs to be found out about the Others between now and the final volume, or where the 6 main characters will be at the time.

[ChillyPolly]

1. Tyrion

Theon

Arya

Barristan

Victarion

Sansa

Damphair

Arianne

These are confirmed for the book. Plus all are either preview chapters or removed from DWD, so likely in beginning.

1. Jon (the Wall)

Cersei (KL)

Dany

Brienne (BWB)

Bran

Later in book: Davos

Sam

Merged: Brienne / Jaime

Theon / Asha

Arianne / JonCon

I think Brienne has more story left than Jaime. She has to do something significant, and I think that will be finding and helping one of the Starks, probably Arya. Jaime's story is done, I think.

Theon can tell Winterfell, and Arianne can tell Storm's End

I do not think GRRM meant 13 at the beginning, and a few more at the end. He I think he meant 13 at any rate; but fewer by the end. In other words, just as A GAME OF THRONES ends with 7 surviving POVs (but 9 in total), Book 6 will have [13 minus x] POVs by the end (but 13 in total).

Basically, GRRM seems to be predicting POV deaths.

[ChillyPolly]

What if this is only a rather bad estimate? As we know, we have nearly 20 POVs, out of those, only JonCon seems dispensable since Arianne is heading to Storm's End to meet him and maybe Asha and Brienne, both of whom might still have things to tell in the future (although it is unlikely).

What if GRRM is wrong about his own book? Sure. Anything is possible. But who do you want me to trust? GRRM, or some fan guess?

13 is the info we have. So take the 8 confirmed POVs, add the 3 remaining main characters, Jon, Bran and Dany, and you have 11. Take a guess at two more and you're done. Nobody else is "essential".

[Fyn]

What if this is only a rather bad estimate? As we know, we have nearly 20 POVs, out of those, only JonCon seems dispensable since Arianne is heading to Storm's End to meet him and maybe Asha and Brienne, both of whom might still have things to tell in the future (although it is unlikely).

Very true. Although if GRRM decides to write that battle of Storm's End chapter, then Connington might get a POV after all...

[Ser Maverick]

9. Daenerys

10. Cersei

11. Jaime

12. Melisandre

13. Jon Connington

These seem the most likely because they will be the most relevant POVs for the beginning of tWoW.

[ChillyPolly]

9. Daenerys

10. Cersei

11. Jaime

12. Melisandre

13. Jon Connington

These seem the most likely because they will be the most relevant POVs for the beginning of tWoW.

So ... no Bran? No Jon Snow? & No Davos?