[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XIII - Ghosts of offers passed

[Mladen]

Welcome to the 13th edition of the Discussion Sansa threads. Before we continue, having the experience of last thread, I would ask all of you to be civil in your discussions with others and to refrain breaking the Forum rules regarding leaked material and discussing rape, which includes also wishing rape on character.

This episode has brought us the confrontation at the Inn, where Brienne was once again, rejected by a Stark girl. Sansa, once again, refused to go with someone who could have saved her. What will be the consequences of such decision, we are yet to see, but just like with Sandor, it most definitely will have a consequence.

Once more, welcome to the thread. All opinions, insights and predictions are more than welcome as long as they don't break the forum rules.

[Colonel Green]

The weirdest part of this setup is that I initially approached Littlefinger's retorts as him lying, like he usually is, but seeing as he doesn't know about the shadow baby, he probably does think Brienne is some crazy liar who killed Renly herself. It would be the explanation that most appeals to his cynical personality.

I thought the scene with Brienne was reasonably well-handled. Sansa could have taken the line of reasoning regarding Brienne being at the wedding further, but I would guess that the show's writers didn't want to have her say "I know you arrived with Jaime Lannister. If you're some super-loyal servant of my mother, why were you in the capital for like a month and didn't ever come and see me?" That would call too much attention to a plot point for which the show never supplied any kind of explanation.

[Lord Damian]

Well, in a way, she might have made the right choice as Littlefinger no doubt would have sent those men, all of them to get them and she would have been dragged unwilling. Trust the devil you know compared to someone you do not know if you can or not. However, it looks as though she did not know about the details of the "marriage proposal" that was accepted. Mayhaps if she knew what is expected, she might have chosen to leave with Brienne.

[Mladen]

The weirdest part of this setup is that I initially approached Littlefinger's retorts as him lying, like he usually is, but seeing as he doesn't know about the shadow baby, he probably does think Brienne is some crazy liar who killed Renly herself. It would be the explanation that most appeals to his cynical personality.

I thought the scene with Brienne was reasonably well-handled. Sansa could have taken the line of reasoning regarding Brienne being at the wedding further, but I would guess that the show's writers didn't want to have her say "I know you arrived with Jaime Lannister. If you're some super-loyal servant of my mother, why were you in the capital for like a month and didn't ever come and see me?" That would call too much attention to a plot point for which the show never supplied any kind of explanation.

Yeah, this was a nice attempt of hiding all those plot holes from last season. Do we even have some sort of explanation why Brienne didn't talk to Sansa? Offer her some comfort, telling her about the mother. After all, she ran to Marg to have a talk about Renly.

[Tyrion's Third Wife]

It's great she's dyed her hair, but other than that, there doesn't seem to be ANY effort to keep her identity a secret. So, what was the point?

[Mladen]

It's great she's dyed her hair, but other than that, there doesn't seem to be ANY effort to keep her identity a secret. So, what was the point?

The worst cover up in history... The only worse thing would be if she would parade somewhere in KL.

[Colonel Green]

Do we even have some sort of explanation why Brienne didn't talk to Sansa? Offer her some comfort, telling her about the mother. After all, she ran to Marg to have a talk about Renly.

No, there was never any effort to explain it.

This is the sort of thing that really drives me bonkers about this show, the little details. Because it would have been so, so easy to cover that base. Make a point that Tywin et al. won't let her near Sansa, have her lobbying Jaime to get her access, Jaime waffles on the whole situation, have Brienne shoot an anxious glance at Sansa at the wedding, and you're done. All that would take is a couple of lines of dialogue.

[Grail King]

The only thing I did not like about the Pod and Brienne scenes were Pod not noticing or putting 1+1 together with Vale troops going by them in the first episode and then showing up at the inn where Vale horses are hitched right in front of his eyes.

[Unlady B]

I haven't followed these pasts threads, so sorry if it's been discussed previously.

I don't understand why they kept the whole plot of hiding sansa behind dyed hair if all the characters recognise her already as Sansa Stark, and those who didn't, were told openly last season of her identity. Of course it marks symbolically the change in sansa's role, but other than aesthetically, I don't see the point after today's episode.

I guess this is aiming to an early claiming of winterfell from LF's part in the show.

Who is the guy in the proposal? I don't think they're gonna introduce the whole harry plot now. Someone from the Vale, Ramsay (haha jk)?

As far as her plot has gone in the show, we haven't had anything extremely new, apart from her encounter with brienne.

[Envie]

I really enjoyed the scene in the Inn and especially liked that Littlefinger's first move is to point out that Brienne's obviously been paid (the sword is a dead giveaway) into service by the Lannisters which he knows will set Sansa off guard about Brienne's intentions. In Sansa's mind, everyone's a traitor that has any association whatsoever with the Lannisters and she has right to be skeptical since the Boltons betrayed her family at the Red Wedding. It's easy to assume Brienne's another traitor out to get her and return her to King's Landing as an accomplice in Joffrey's murder.

I noticed Sansa watching the exchange between Littlefinger and Brienne carefully and her eyes narrowed with skepticism. She saw the lion head on the sword - she's learning to become observant and wary.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

No, there was never any effort to explain it.

This is the sort of thing that really drives me bonkers about this show, the little details. Because it would have been so, so easy to cover that base. Make a point that Tywin et al. won't let her near Sansa, have her lobbying Jaime to get her access, Jaime waffles on the whole situation, have Brienne shoot an anxious glance at Sansa at the wedding, and you're done. All that would take is a couple of lines of dialogue.

Exactly. I wouldn't have gone with Brienne as well. According to the show, between season 3 and 4 it took weeks. During any of these, was Brienne seen trying to talk to Sansa? She's just not trustworthy. She bowed to King Joffrey and parlayed with Jaime Lannister, and she has a Lannister sword, despite "serving" Renly and Catelyn.

LF did what Brienne could not, and she's in a much better place in great part to him, as far as she knows.

[El Guapo]

It's great she's dyed her hair, but other than that, there doesn't seem to be ANY effort to keep her identity a secret. So, what was the point?

Well the only people that would recognize her even with the dye job are people that have actually seen her before, like Pod.

[Christi84]

Yea I dont like how it was handled..she just walked up to her in a tavern and spoke to her as Lady Sansa...all Im thinking is..well, there goes her identity..surely someone would send word to Cersei that LF has her

I just dont get the need to change this whole storyline of LF/Sansa and where theyre going

[Grail King]

Yeah, this was a nice attempt of hiding all those plot holes from last season. Do we even have some sort of explanation why Brienne didn't talk to Sansa? Offer her some comfort, telling her about the mother. After all, she ran to Marg to have a talk about Renly.

Only thing I can think of, is Brienne did not want Cersei to know or follow her.

[El Guapo]

Yea I dont like how it was handled..she just walked up to her in a tavern and spoke to her as Lady Sansa...all Im thinking is..well, there goes her identity..surely someone would send word to Cersei that LF has her

I just dont get the need to change this whole storyline of LF/Sansa and where theyre going

Certainly possible and may be that is the reason Littlefinger and Sansa high tailed their way out there.

[Mladen]

I haven't followed these pasts threads, so sorry if it's been discussed previously.

I don't understand why they kept the whole plot of hiding sansa behind dyed hair if all the characters recognise her already as Sansa Stark, and those who didn't, were told openly last season of her identity. Of course it marks symbolically the change in sansa's role, but other than aesthetically, I don't see the point after today's episode.

I guess this is aiming to an early claiming of winterfell from LF's part in the show.

Who is the guy in the proposal? I don't think they're gonna introduce the whole harry plot now. Someone from the Vale, Ramsay (haha jk)?

As far as her plot has gone in the show, we haven't had anything extremely new, apart from her encounter with brienne.

Your humor has a good instinct.

[Rex999]

I had a big smile on my face during that scene

and not because I thought the scene was great

I was just happy that Brianna's A Feast for Crows storyline came to a very quick end lol

[JonInVa]

No mention of Arya being alive and having seen her only weeks ago? That would have thrown a shock into the proceedings. Instead we get her playing gracious Sir Lancelot and going on about vows or pledges again. No wonder she never succeeds at n her missions.

Well, other than that perhaps it's a sign that when they follow it will be either she or Pod who become Ramsay's new plaything, and not Sansa.

[Mladen]

No mention of Arya being alive and having seen her only weeks ago? That would have thrown a shock into the proceedings. Instead we get her playing gracious Sir Lancelot and going on about vows or pledges again. No wonder she never succeeds at n her missions.

You think Brienne might remember to inform Sansa her sister is alive... But, no... Stannis shadow was what they had to talk about.

[Kobayashi Maru]

Well....

The scene itself was ok. Much better explained and handeled than bwb scene with the hound. Here no onehad any doubts why she shouldn't go with Brienne, but.....the way they all keep using hername like it's nothing. She might as well be wearing a t shirt with her name on it. In comparison, the second most wanted person Tyrion in traveling in a box, and he's even on different continent. Sansa is closer to KL and they say her name left and right.