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Is it Stannis duty to please that booty?


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Also I'm not debating on whether Penrose was justified in his actions or not.

Forgive me, but...

Storms End belonged to Stannis, not Penrose.

That thief got what he deserved.

...Yes you are.

I mean, we can stop if you (and everyone else in the debate) likes. But denial =/= reality.

(Although as far as Stannis is concerned it is rather apposite).

Lords who live on islands (or isles?) near Dragonstone and who had something against burning South gods

I think you'll find they're traitors, because they disagreed with Stannis about something and had the balls to do something about it. Those bastards.

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Poor Penrose.



The text implies that Penrose would have surrendered Storm's End if he'd been allowed to keep Edric Storm. Penrose is one of those who pretty much raised the boy, so he likely viewed him as something akin to a beloved nephew. All this talk about treasons and rights miss the point, I believe. The crux of this particular conflict is that Penrose didn't trust Stannis' intentions toward Edric. This was about love, not rights.



The irony is that in the end Davos also opposed Stannis to protect Edric but he didn't get murdered for his troubles.


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Poor Penrose.

The text implies that Penrose would have surrendered Storm's End if he'd been allowed to keep Edric Storm. Penrose is one of those who pretty much raised the boy, so he likely viewed him as something akin to a beloved nephew. All this talk about treasons and right miss the point, I believe. The crux of this particular conflict is that Penrose didn't trust Stannis' intentions toward Edric. This was about love, not rights and wrong.

The irony is that in the end Davos also opposed Stannis to protect Edric but he didn't get murdered for his troubles.

I agree completely, if Edric wasnt in the picture he would have yielded SE

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Poor Penrose.

The text implies that Penrose would have surrendered Storm's End if he'd been allowed to keep Edric Storm. Penrose is one of those who pretty much raised the boy, so he likely viewed him as something akin to a beloved nephew. All this talk about treasons and right miss the point, I believe. The crux of this particular conflict is that Penrose didn't trust Stannis' intentions toward Edric. This was about love, not rights and wrong.

The irony is that in the end Davos also opposed Stannis to protect Edric but he didn't get murdered for his troubles.

Fuck Penrose.

What does "keep Edric" mean? That Penrose is going to stay as castellan? That's not going to happen. He supported a rebel, one who was pretty clear about wanting to put his nephews' heads on spikes so he could become king. On top of that, he had remained so for two weeks, offering service to literally anyone else, including said "nephews" and thier unspiked heads. Nephews who woud gladly have aided Penrose if they could, and would then murder Edric on the spot, thank you so very much for gift-wrapping him to us. Keep Edric as a foster child? Why on earth for? Stannis is Edric's remaining family, not Penrose.

Penrose knew he has no chance to keep the castle, and still chose battle rather than lose face. He knows full well that Stannis would kill anyone inside the castle if he refuses, and yet he does it anyway. I have to ask, do you honestly believe that the men inside knew of Stannis' offer? They gave up the castle the instant Penrose died. Does'nt look like any of them were willing to die for no reason, and Stannis was not going to harm Edric, he wanted to parade him around as proof of his claim.

No, Penrose was making an unreasonable demand. He had insulted everyone in the parley party in the hopes of getting a rise out of them, to accept a trial by combat in the hopes that all of the men there are bloody idiots and would actually leave him be in Storm's End forever. The guy wanted to die for some reason. Did he really dislike Stannis so much that he could'nt stand him as lord? Does'nt seem likely, since countless others went over without a problem. It took Renly's lover being the son of Mace Tyrell for some of the bannermen to leave to Bitterbridge, and some of those even went home. Did he fear Stannis would punish him? Unlikely, since Stannis did not punish the others, and had promised him a pardon as well. Is losing his job really that scary? Unlikely. The only reason left is that he was angry at Stannis for having benefited from Renly's death. Penrose loved Renly, more than he ever did Edric. He was not stupid, he knew he was going to die with all his men, and that Stannis would get Edric and the castle in a day. If he really cared about Edric he would have offered to be his sworn shield or something along those lines, to remain with Edric. The only thing he would get out of all this was to stick it to Stannis. Waste his time, cost him men. There was nothing else he could get out of this. The guy died because he hated the fact that Renly failed to kill his brother and nephews, and that the guy who was his enemy up until five minutes ago is now his lord. He was willing to let 200 men die with him, and Edric ending up in his hands all the same.

Because Cortney Penrose was an asshole.

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Forgive me, but...

...Yes you are.

I mean, we can stop if you (and everyone else in the debate) likes. But denial =/= reality.

(Although as far as Stannis is concerned it is rather apposite).

I think you'll find they're traitors, because they disagreed with Stannis about something and had the balls to do something about it. Those bastards.

Wheter he may or may not be justified from his point of view doesn't contraedict the fact that he can be considered a thief. Or what claim did Penrose have on Storms End again? None. Guess who had a claim? Stannis.

But fine that you stopped debating about the claim, so you finally agree with me instead of denying it? Or do you want to bring a bastard who can't inherit again?

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Lords who live on islands (or isles?) near Dragonstone and who had something against burning South gods

No. They tried to stop Stannis. Every king would consider such actions treason. Of course the punishment was( too) harsh, but then, that was not the point.

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Wheter he may or may not be justified from his point of view doesn't contraedict the fact that he can be considered a thief. Or what claim did Penrose have on Storms End again? None. Guess who had a claim? Stannis.

But fine that you stopped debating about the claim, so you finally agree with me instead of denying it? Or do you want to bring a bastard who can't inherit again?

What? No. That you denied participating in a debate against all available evidence and I offered you the opportunity to stop doesn't mean I agree with you, and trying to play it as if I do is frankly insulting, so please don't.

I know it's illegal to disagree about anything with anyone (and especially those with Stannis-boners) but even so, come on.

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I know it's illegal to disagree about anything with anyone.

Oh, okay. Agree to disagree then, because I think it's perfectly legal. Maybe Stannis haters don't. And what evidence? That he's a thief from Stannis' pov doesn't mean his actions can't be justified in his own pov, as I said previously. Robert is a thief in Dany's eyes and he was justified in his rebellion.

We were debating about Stannis' claim for the rest of the discussion, remember.

Oh, and stop acting as if I pretended you agreed with me, it was a simple question.

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I know it won't happen, but the thought of Tommen, out of the goodness of his little heart, legitimizing Edric Storm as Edric Baratheon, because he wanted another brother makes me smile. Would double make me smile then when Tommen got his gold shroud that made Edric king, after all of that the game ends with a son of Robert Baratheon on throne, something no one expected.


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:lol: I usually avoid Stannis threads to avoid getting beheaded, but you have one me over by the title. Well done! I think it's extra weird that Stannis is all "I don't want to be the king for ME, legacy family name blah blah blah" but doesn't put more effort into expanding it. They gave TV Selyse a creepy fetus collection, but in the book it's just implied that she ugly and Stannis hates sex (and all forms of fun and happiness, hail king Stannis!) so that's that. Do they have turkey basters in westeros?


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Fuck Penrose.

What does "keep Edric" mean? That Penrose is going to stay as castellan?

No, it means being allowed to leave Storm's End with Edric. I don't see how that wasn't clear on my part, honestly.

“You know full well why we are here,” said Stannis. “You have had a fortnight to consider my offer. You sent your ravens. No help has come. Nor will it. Storm’s End stands alone, and I am out of patience. One last time, ser, I command you to open your gates, and deliver me that which is mine by rights.”

“And the terms?” asked Ser Cortnay.

“Remain as before,” said Stannis. “I will pardon you for your treason, as I have pardoned these lords you see behind me. The men of your garrison will be free to enter my service or to return unmolested to their homes. You may keep your weapons and as much property as a man can carry. I will require your horses and pack animals, however.”

“And what of Edric Storm?”

“My brother’s bastard must be surrendered to me.”

“Then my answer is still no, my lord.”

Ser Cortnay inquired about the terms. If he had been allowed to leave Storm's end with Edric Storm, it's plain to see he would have surrendered the Storm's Keep.

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:lol: I usually avoid Stannis threads to avoid getting beheaded, but you have one me over by the title. Well done! I think it's extra weird that Stannis is all "I don't want to be the king for ME, legacy family name blah blah blah" but doesn't put more effort into expanding it. They gave TV Selyse a creepy fetus collection, but in the book it's just implied that she ugly and Stannis hates sex (and all forms of fun and happiness, hail king Stannis!) so that's that. Do they have turkey basters in westeros?

In the show he also definitely stuck his wang in a vag that births icky, smoking demons - so more than just hating sex, I think Stannis may actually hate his penis and have some kind of death wish for it :D

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Stannis is so shallow! How dare he not want to have sex with his wife because she's ugly! He needs to grow up and mature and learn to appreciate Selyse and see her beautiful personality! After all, he should be grateful she's not abusing him or trying to kill him, he could be doing worse... Maybe in time he will learn to appreciate her and then they will become a perfect couple!

... yes. This is sarcasm. Just in case someone actually takes it seriously (you never know...).

:lol:

On a serious note, I got the impression that he doesn't care for her as a person and that's as much an issue as her looks.

If someone read the title of the thread and then clicked the last page and saw that the discussion is all about Courney Penrose, they's get quite the wrong idea... :lol:

:lol:

Fuxsake, Annara. I'm on my lunch break at work and nearly choked laughing. Folk are looking at me now.

:lol:

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No, it means being allowed to leave Storm's End with Edric. I don't see how that wasn't clear on my part, honestly.

Keep Edric as a foster child? Why on earth for? Stannis is Edric's remaining family, not Penrose.

Ser Cortnay inquired about the terms. If he had been allowed to leave Storm's end with Edric Storm, it's plain to see he would have surrendered the Storm's Keep.

The condition is ridiculous. Stannis is Edric's family, not Penrose. On top of that Stannis needs to show Edric to as many people as he can as proof of his claim. It's why he is here. It looks more like Penrose wanted Stannis to refuse. Can he not ask to be Edric's guardian while with Stannis? Sure he can.

Can he hold Storm's End with 200 men against the guy who lived here, was in charge of the defenses and knows all about the weak spots if there are any, with the 100 to 1 advantage? Of course not.

So instead of making the reasonable offer, he chooses battle, dying in a blaze of glory, causing the death of 200 of his men, and ending up with Edric in Stannis' hands within a day. Edric was clearly not the issue here, it was about Penrose and Stannis.

In his letter to Riverrun he writes that he "fears for the boy". Why? He did not seem to fear for the boy when he asked the Lannisters for help. Nor for the boy's "half-brothers" when Renly declared himself king and was about to place thier heads on spikes. It's a bullshit reason that does not add up with his actions. Considering that he puts it down to facing some of the finest swordsmen in a battle to the death, being killed in battle, or hanged if he is captured alive, the guy does not seem to care about life anymore, and only wanted to fuck with Stannis because he benefits from Renly's death.

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