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[BOOK SPOILERS] Margaery Plot Changes


Nathaniel Stark

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For me, the Margaery manipulating Tommen arc doesn't feed into or change the YMB prophecy because I think we are supposed to see that Cersei created the monster she was trying to prevent. Margaery is definitely a killing bees with honey before vinegar type. She tried to sweeten her way to Cersei's heart only to be rejected and threatened even.

As for YMB - the reason I don't abbreviate it YMBQ is because I'm starting to fall into the camp that it won't be a queen, not the way we've thought of queen at least. The prophecy says "then comes another, younger, more beautiful." We are supposed to infer another queen but she doesn't actually say that. And English is muddy enough in this instance that "another" can stand in just for another person generally, without referring back to the first specific type of person mentioned. I'm not 100% there yet, more like 50/50 (split between Sansa and Brienne the Beauty).

What's wrong with having Margaery be the younger, more beautiful queen though? Marge is in King's landing and is part of the world Cersei inhabits. Dany is not. And if you think it's too obvious or straightforward - well, so is Dany being the younger queen as well.

Now if Brienne were the YMBQ.......

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I have a weird feeling that Tommen is going to end up picking Cersei over Margaery. After all, Tommen and Cersei being on good terms and closer than ever before after the walk of shame is important for the story to go on.

Hm. I hope not. But regardless of who he chooses, won't the high sparrow overrule?

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Hm. I hope not. But regardless of who he chooses, won't the high sparrow overrule?

its kind of confusing to me, because in the books while tommen enjoys margaery...and does start speaking up more to cersei. he doesn't exactly pick one over the other, he's equally devastated about each getting arrested and after the Walk of Shame, he's closer to Cersei than ever before and Cersei's spending a lot of time with him and actually being somewhat of a good mother. and I do think Margaery will die in Book 6, and its not something that book Tommen can get mad at Cersei for either.

so I can't help but think that even though D&D are making these changes, that they ultimately have to get Tommen on the same route as Book Tommen because ultimately this is Cersei's story, not Margaery's.

eh, I don't really see what the High Sparrow has to do with this.

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What's wrong with having Margaery be the younger, more beautiful queen though? Marge is in King's landing and is part of the world Cersei inhabits. Dany is not. And if you think it's too obvious or straightforward - well, so is Dany being the younger queen as well.

I really think that the most important part is that Cersei thinks that Marge is the one. Whichever it turns out to be in the end - Marge, Dany, perhaps Myrcella herself (and wouldn't it be fun if it were Cersei's own daughter that brought her down!), doesn't really matter. The self-fulfilling prophecy thing does.

On another note, I absolutely love the show changes to Cersei's plot. I think they take away a lot of random miscellaneous bullshit (that I hated when I was forced to plod through in the books), and concentrate on the meat of the problem - the personality clash between her and Margaery (and later, presumably, Olenna).

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I really think that the most important part is that Cersei thinks that Marge is the one. Whichever it turns out to be in the end - Marge, Dany, perhaps Myrcella herself (and wouldn't it be fun if it were Cersei's own daughter that brought her down!), doesn't really matter. The self-fulfilling prophecy thing does.

On another note, I absolutely love the show changes to Cersei's plot. I think they take away a lot of random miscellaneous bullshit (that I hated when I was forced to plod through in the books), and concentrate on the meat of the problem - the personality clash between her and Margaery (and later, presumably, Olenna).

The prophecy is considered as Marg isn't that obvious to both book Cersei and Show Cersei motivations?

Show Cersei lacks all depth is in constant contradiction to her former model, to the point her walk of shame isn't going to be a surprise because we have already seen somebody else doing it. Lancel will confess Cersei is done, will this go back to Robert dunno? Show Cersei is not the same as the books where Marg went freely to her trial, meaning Cersei could not become exempt, and everything backfired on Cersei the whore.

They were calling Show Tommen a what when he arrived with his kingsguard?

The show is now ludicrous, chop away everything to repeat itself. 4 trials, Loras, probably Marg definitely Cersei, Septon not a trial but tried, and two walks of shame fill our air time much.

The Tyrell's are useless bastards who are not in the kingsguard, have no armies protecting their kin, meanwhile the Redkeep is constantly breached by ramble.

The other point I am struggling with is the old testament religion seen compared to the Seven different. Bealor the Blessed a Septon Targaryen king born of incest. Somehow this reflects to these new shown themes. i honestly understand adulterous crime, but homophobia seemingly stretching it, no continuity from Renly, Oberyn.

Maybe we can assume that any continuity is linked Renly, Loras.. Oberyn, Olyvar to some kind of orgy with Marg. Although what is considered illegal to which rulers people loved followed championed is a vastly different definition

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Lancel will confess Cersei is done, will this go back to Robert dunno? .

Supposedly, he should have already have already confessed this to the High Sparrow. From Lancel's confession to Cersei, it sounds like it would have told the High Sparrow that he was the one to blame for Cersei's relations. The boar stuff though he doesn't assume all the blame for, which makes me wonder.

CERSEI: Your wounds from the Blackwater seem to have healed.

LANCEL: It wasn't my wounds that needed healing.

CERSEI: What can I do for you?

LANCEL: You can forgive me.

CERSEI: What could you possibly have done to warrant my forgiveness?

LANCEL: I led you into the darkness.

CERSEI: I doubt you've ever led anyone anywhere.

LANCEL: I tempted you into our unnatural relations. And, of course, there was the king his boar hunt. His wine.

CERSEI: I don't know what you're talking about.

LANCEL: I'm a different person now. I've found peace in the light of the Seven. You can, too. They watch over all of us, ready to dole out mercy or justice. Their world is at hand. I will pray for your father's soul.

CERSEI: The day Tywin Lannister's soul needs your help...

Also what happened to the rest of that last line? Where did it go? Who is editing King's Landing? :stunned:

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Supposedly, he should have already have already confessed this to the High Sparrow. From Lancel's confession to Cersei, it sounds like it would have told the High Sparrow that he was the one to blame for Cersei's relations. The boar stuff though he doesn't assume all the blame for, which makes me wonder.

Also what happened to the rest of that last line? Where did it go? Who is editing King's Landing? :stunned:

Why would the High Sparrow play a ruse, maybe he needs Cersei help routing the Redkeep? Where she doesn't militarily command much presence.

Lancel will also likely confess later for the viewers benefit. Will it go back to the boar, outside of her kin? Hmm whatever way. It will reflect on how later command is established into Tommen's protection, who gains, guards KL.

Curious what Littlefinger adds, why isn't he on trial, he owns the gratuitous establishments?

The entire programming is questionable

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Why isn't Margaery sitting on the small council? I thought she wanted to be THE queen.

she just wants popularity she doesn't actually want to make any political decisions

basically she should have been tywin's daughter instead of cersei

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she just wants popularity she doesn't actually want to make any political decisions

basically she should have been tywin's daughter instead of cersei

No Tywin almost prefered Cersei because Jamie was a weapon, Kingsguard, and Tyrion was a grotesque, she was a better Lion, although she wasn't particularly clever..

Margaery was just a little girl, who knows how to gossip, learning how to play court, but without anybody was just a little girl.

The show is vastly different of course. The age of Show Margaery is what? Still seen as a little girl, the king would have had that say over the queen. Why the queen mother has that say now, after consummation??????????? Why Kevan debated that point.

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she just wants popularity she doesn't actually want to make any political decisions

basically she should have been tywin's daughter instead of cersei

hmm. popularity - that's probably right. but let's see what happens when Olenna comes to town.

I hope we see Marge sitting on those small council meetings soon. It would add some dimension

to her past politicking, feeding the orphans, etc.

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