What did you think of A Feast for Crows?

[tuthmoses]

I thought it was awesome and that everyone should quit complaing about the POV they wanted.

People should think of AFFC and ADWD as one book so really we just read half a book and the second is coming our way late 2006-early 2007. Then you can rate the book. seperately you might not them but together you might think both books collectively are as great as ASOS.

2006 -2007 haha oh dear made me laugh then cry then laugh again

[tuthmoses]

personally i think ffc is the weakest of the books so far ... now in places its excellent especially the last cersei and jaime chapters but there are chapters in it that i sort of skimmed through and times when i sighed when I came across a particular pov (BRIENNE!) and that had never happened before. Its still an excellent book mind you but it just seems a little long winded and dull in places.

All I'm going to say is thankgod for the brilliant Jaime chapters he's possibly my favourite character now and if you'd told me I'd say that half way through Game I'd have been incredilous.

[Ran]

Yeah, what George does with Jaime is pretty incredible when you look at it. Terrific character.

[Songlian]

I loved AFFC myself on a first read, and since I'm re-reading the series right now, after just having finished them like a month ago, cannot wait to get back to it.

Two things did it for me. First, the Dorne chapters. I love them, and that kingdom, to pieces. Second, the absence of several POVs which I wasn't terribly fond of before: Jon, Davos, Dany, and Tyrion. Yes, I know, everyone likes Tyrion, and so do I, but there's only so much whoring and maiming one can read about before it gets a bit stale. Practically, with the exception of Samwell (somewhat interesting quest, terribly dull character) and Brienne (somewhat interesting character, terribly dull quest) everything was distilled for my liking when it came to the POVs.

There were, of course, things I didn't entirely approve of, such as too many Greyjoy POVs for a rather small piece of land. I'm guessing that's because they will spread out in the future. Some chapters were a bit too long and slow paced for their own good, in my opinion, and mostly filled with descriptions of Westeros rather than actual plot. But when plot happened, it tended to make up for it.

I don't think AFFC is worse than the other books in the series. I do think it's written somewhat differently from what were used to read, like a small break to catch your breath before the events are set into motion again. I'm rather curious to see if ADWD will be similar to it in this aspect, or we get see a significant change of pace with the next book.

[tuthmoses]

Yeah, what George does with Jaime is pretty incredible when you look at it. Terrific character.

yeah if there is a reward for greatest character it has to go to jaime it just has to he might not be ur fav or whatever but the depth that grrm has brought to him is incredible he has created a REAL (and kickass)character.

I love the idea mentioned by someone else of the final chapter in the whole series being Jaime 'once again' lounging smugly on the iron throne waiting to see who has survived the wars and intrigues to 'finally' come and claim it.

[tuthmoses]

Of course I enjoyed A Feast for Crows, along with almost everyone on this message board. But like all fans I've got my nitpicks and "huh?, what was he thinking moments." There were certain parts I really liked, others that I didnt like as much so roughly organized I'll dive in:

Good

1. Kings Landing POVs.

The intertwining of Cersei's and Jamie's narratives was masterly. The two PoVs played off of each other in such a way that made each better than they would have been by themselves. The writerly craftsmanship in those chapters and how they were composed, arranged and linked was something that only Martin pulls off well in the world of fantasy. The narrative really got you inside the heads' of the main characters and you could feel the poignant anger that suffuses Jaimie and the paranoia that steadily marches into Cersei's world view.

2. Dorne

At first when I started with those chapters I kept telling myself, what the heck is the point. Where are we going with this? It felt like just another example of people behaving badly with no purpose. But with that final revelation of Doran Martell's it all came together. In both a good and bad way that ah-ha moment brought all of it together in a way that was most definetly intended by Martin. I'm not sure if I can forgive him for doing that, its almost corny in a certain way, but sometimes you have to use a blunt narrative instrument for effect.

3. Samwell

I think Sam is the best written of the PoVs. His character is definetly getting fleshed out as he grows up. Sam's story isn't a classic bildungsroman, he certainly is not the child of prophecy, bringing on the salvation of the world, but he brings a humanity and imperfection which makes AFFC whole.

Bad

1. Sansa

I started as a Sansa hater when I first ready AGOT, then I started to warm to her in the next two books. Now I'm just, "blech, whatever, I don't really care about her." I thought her chapters were pointless and could have been done in some other way. I can appreciate how she is growing up, but her situation never changes in the book, and thus her point of views felt like filler.

2. Chapter structure

There weren't as many nifty structure elements this time around other than the juxtaposition of Jaimie and Cersei. The addition of the Ironborn narratives certainly didnt help in my feeling. In fact their insertion often felt forced and it felt like they were never really part of the story. I can see that they will all be important later in subsequent books but it felt like we could have heard things about them second-hand rather than needing to see through the eyes of Victarion, Aeron and Asha. One wonders if things could have been different if Theon (a character I really could wrap my mind around) was used differently in the previous books.

Ugly

1. Brienne

It is hard to say if I liked her chapters or not. The cliffhanger was a cruel, cruel thing to leave behind. And the slow march she makes in the Riverlands and Trident are boring and feel almost pointless. The exposition we receive through Septon Meribold seems important along with how we see ordinary people and how they deal with the ongoing wars and their reprecussions is something relatively unique within the structure of a novel of lords, nobles and knights. I totally enjoyed her character though and to see her take up Dunk's shield left a warm glow in my heart.

2. Arya

She's in a holding pattern it seems and very few words are spent on her. Her cliffhanger wasn't as bad as Brienne's but still it did leave a, "gggrrrrr...." in my throat.

I think thats a very good synopsis of how i felt withit too

[Jo498]

I first have to admit that coming late to the series I rushed through all of the first four books within a few weeks (and that was January/February 2011). But I found AFFC considerably weaker than the others. And not primarily because I missed some characters.

Some long-windedness that had shown up before became far worse here.

Even the things I liked best (Dorne, Arya, Oldtown, Jaime) were often too long, not enough action and plot development. (In the case of the Dorne plot it is of course hard to tell whether somethng might become more important. Anyway that was a fresh setting and fresh characters.

The Greyjoy subplot could and should have been reduced by at least a third without any losses, there was no need for 3 POV. Same goes for the KL/Cersei (and some Jaime) chapters. Cersei's machinations and eventual downfall just dragged on forever (and we had plenty of (more compelling and exciting) intrigue before).

Although I really liked her before she got her own POV, Brienne's arc was the worst. The devastation of the country and the smallfolk had been covered extensively by the Arya and Jaime chapters of the earlier books; I do not need a sermon on the plight of the pressed soldiers (most of that has been shown sufficiently) and it is rather boring from the very beginning, because the reader knows she's on a fool's errand. So two nice fighting scenes and (almost) forget about the rest.

If Brienn will die this would have been an incredible waste of space. If she lives and has an important part to play later on this arc is something that could have easily been covered later on by a flashback or a similar device.

I am undecided about the Sansa chapters. I like Sansa somewhat better than before. But in the earlier books she was an important witness. It is hard to tell where LF plans might lead in the future, but again, all that seems to me something that could have been told in a flashbank or reported by Sansa at a later stage.

I have the impression that quite a bit of the development in the character arcs in AFFC would have worked as well or better with the 3-5 year gap and could have been told in reports or flashbacks. On the other hand, considering the whole development so far it is perfectly understandable that a gap would not have worked with all the plot elements.

[Areo]

I first have to admit that coming late to the series I rushed through all of the first four books within a few weeks (and that was January/February 2011).

Even the things I liked best (Dorne, Arya, Oldtown, Jaime) were often too long, not enough action and plot development. (In the case of the Dorne plot it is of course hard to tell whether somethng might become more important. Anyway that was a fresh setting and fresh characters.

Well, same here. I was urged by my friends to read the series for some time, but only got around to it after seeing the extended preview by HBO about the TV show (and having recently graduated I found some time on my hands). So I finished them in less than a month and more or less. I can compare them as there was very little time between books.

First of all, I did not want to wait and took it in Bulgarian (the first three I bought in English, but AFfC was out of stock and Amazon take about 2 weeks for delivery). So the transaltion itself made it worse than it really is.

A major downside is of course the lack of many (and my favorite at that) characters. Sure, those in AFfC will probably play an important role, but before reading the next books the knots will be a mystery, so most of the things that happen are hanging in the air.

You are right that some of the chapters are long. As the Bulgarian version is different size it is hard to say how long they are, but sure at some points they lacked action. Again, many details may turn out important for future developments, but by themsselves are not that interesting.

Another strange decision by Martin is to use different names (for the chapters). Why not stick with Sansa, Aeron, Euron, Arianne, etc. but use something else instead? And sometimes even different names for the same character! This was not done before, why this sudden change in style?

I really liked how many other characters are developed, especially Jaime and Cersei.

Overall, I liked the book, despite its shortcomings (especially the translation was I believe the major culprit). More importantly though, it will be fully appreciated only after the story is mended together and the puzzle is complete. A matter of months now

[Whatever]

Out Topic.. i love your sign

[flyingwind66]

2006 -2007 haha oh dear made me laugh then cry then laugh again

no kidding =_=

My first impression? I didn't really read much of Feast for Crows... I hated the new chapter re-naming and didn't really care much for new characters because my first read through of the whole series included every chapter up until 5/6ths through the first book then skipping only to characters I cared about... and that's how I read CoK, SoS and FFC. I was a bit confused a lot of the time because things would happen in other ppl's chapters that I didn't care to read.

considering the only characters I really cared to read about in FFC was Arya and Sansa... mostly I was upset there weren't any Jon or Dany chapters

regardless, when I read the series in its entirety for the first time I pretty much decided feast for crows was the most boring of all of them. It was fun seeing Cercei fuck herself over XDDD though I really like Margaery and hope she gets out of this one... and also woot for Jaime not coming to Cercei's rescue haha

[Tyrion Lannister]

Yeah, what George does with Jaime is pretty incredible when you look at it. Terrific character.

Completely agree with this. The development of Jaime's character has been one of my favorite aspects of this series.

I liked A Feast for Crows. Was it my least favorite book in the series thus far? Yes. But A Storm of Swords was my favorite book ever, and GoT and CoK aren't far behind, so not living up to that high standard doesn't make it a bad book by any means.

[skins7778]

I liked A Feast for Crows. Was it my least favorite book in the series thus far? Yes. But A Storm of Swords was my favorite book ever, and GoT and CoK aren't far behind, so not living up to that high standard doesn't make it a bad book by any means.

My thoughts exactly.

What GRRM did with jaime was amazing. When I first read aGoT if you would have said by book 5 he would be one of my top 3 characters I would have thought I went crazy. As far as Brienne goes her arc reminds me too much of arya's escape from KL and two books worth of wandering through the war torn riverlands. If she was hunting stannis or doing anything other than what arya did for 2000 pages I would have loved everything. Maybe not the ironborn though.

[Jojen]

Like other posters have stated, taking ASoS and AFfC together, I liked the Arya and Dorne chapters best, and parts of Brienne's (the ones involving Jaime).

[Impish]

I think it's a fair statement to say that A Feast for Crows is widely considered the weakest of the series so far (one only need look at Amazon reviews to see the drastic difference from the first three novels).

I was just curious, does anyone know if GRRM has publicly acknowledged or discussed this? Ie, has he expressed any regrets about the way FfC turned out? Just wondering if/how he has reacted to criticism.

I have to agree I did find it the weakest of the series so far as well, but I do have some faith that all the setup will pay off huge in the next book(s), allowing FfC to be seen in a better light in full context (much like the first half of GoT reads better once you know where it's all leading)

(Oh, and if Arya is REALLY blind, ie crippled before reaching her potential after SOOO much investment in building up her skills, I will be extremely disappointed.)

[BarrileteCosmico]

AFfC has many problems, but by far the largest one is that 1/4 of the chapters are about Cercei. This in itself would not be a problem, if it turned out that there was more to Cercei than what we previously knew about her. There was more to Jaime than we thought, and now we love him, or at least I do. Sadly, Cercei has no such redeeming qualities. None whatsoever, actually. Her POVs don't give us a new perspective of her character, but merely make us live through a character we already didn't like. So we are forced to spend over 150 pages reading about how an evil, scheming b**** is being an evil, scheming b****. It's too much.

[archer1949]

I haven't re-read it yet. But my initial feelings from reading it the first time three years ago were disappointment in the choice of POV characters and the seeming disassociation of the Dornish chapters with the rest of the narrative. I can barely remember what happened in those chapters.

On the other hand, I loved the Brienne stuff. Yes, it could be considered "pointless" from a plot perspective, but I find her character really fascinating and quite unique. Most Fantasy author's idea of a "warrior woman" would be a cliched hottie in a chain mail bikini, but Martin really went out of the box in her creation. And the cliffhanger was priceless. I don't know people have against The Maid of Tarth.

All in all, a decent "first half", but a bit of a disappointment as a stand alone, especially when you consider the poor slobs who have waited six years for a follow up.

[starki]

I guess GRRM has plans with Dornia - boring chapters - and Greyjoys - good chapters. Major letdown was CrazyCersei and KillerArya.

To me - and I only waited a year or so since SoS was translated here about a year ago - it feels less stand-alone compared to GoT, or CoK, or SoS. I hope ADWD will deliver.

[metr0man]

I finally finished reading A Feast For Crows.

By far the weakest book of the series, not even close.

The first half of the book is particularly a struggle. In retrospect, they weren't so bad seeing the whole 'form' of the story, but Brienne and the Greyjoy chapters were a struggle in particular. Cersei's chapters were more readable because I knew the cast of characters already but even those dragged on. Just chapter after chapter of her scheming and being self-satisfied.

The second half is better. In fact, it was right around the 50% mark on my Kindle that I realized my enjoyment level went up. We started getting more back-and-forth Cersei/Jaime chapters, The Greyjoy POV moved to Victarion who I think is by far the most enjoyable out of all of them, he seems like he has the capability to be a really popular righteous badass type character. That last Arienne chapter had a nice payoff. Cersei's comeuppance was satisfying to read as well, but I'm disappointed the Margery plotline was still hanging there. I was really hoping Cersei's fall was going to coincide with Margeary and the Tyrells basically taking over Kings Landing. Instead the whole Cersei storyline just hangs.

The whole book is like that... the book just ends right as it's gaining steam. It's like half filler, followed 50% of actual ASoI&F (which, if we're doing math, considering the book is already 50% of the story, I feel like I only got a quarter of a ASoI&F book). I feel Martin made a big error by not streamlining and cutting stuff from the first half of this book. The story seems to move at a glacial pace. Think about it... look at the Dorne plotline. At the beginning of the book, we know the Red Viper is dead trying to exact revenge on the Mountain for Elia. By the end of the book, what's happened? We find out what Doran's revenge plan is (have one of his sons marry Dany and invade that way). It took a whole book to get there.

Yes, STUFF happens in between, but in this series, the stuff that happens is increasingly "24-style" stuff (24 being the tv show). You can forget half of the plot stuff that happens, and still follow the story. what does that tell you about all the stuff in between?

I give it a B-. Once the book gets going it's compelling again, and you can see the threads from the last books start connecting. But it all happens too late in it.

[ghost the direwolf]

Liked it on first read, Was really glad aboutknowing cersei better and loved jaimie and arya PVO.

[IceGal]

AFFC was by far the most annoying book in the series for me. I found myself caring less and less about the characters, and the book was too meandering. The happenings in AFFC didn't deserve a whole book IMHO