RumHam Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 What about a situation like Margary Tyrell? If she worshiped the Old Gods could she tell the HS to bug off without fear of the crown? Or the HS demands you testify in a trial, can you refuse? Providing it wasn't a crime that breaks. the Kings Laws Jaehaerys I took away the Faith's ability to hold trials. This power was only recently restored by Cersei in the name of Tommen at the urging of the High Sparrow. The High Sparrow steepled his thin hands. “I have had the selfsame thought, Your Grace. Just as Maegor the Cruel once took the swords from the Faith, so Jaehaerys the Conciliator deprived us of the scales of judgment. Yet who is truly fit to judge a queen, save the Seven Above and the godsworn below? A sacred court of seven judges shall sit upon this case. Three shall be of your female sex. A maiden, a mother, and a crone. Who could be more suited to judge the wickedness of women?” “That would be for the best. To be sure, Margaery does have the right to demand that her guilt or innocence be proven by wager of battle. If so, her champion must be one of Tommen’s Seven.” I don't think the High Sparrow would care that she worshiped the old gods. If anything it might make him angrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Widow of Coldmoat Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Related to the above point, how many major conflicts were there between the various religions after the time of the Andal Conquest? Obviously at that point it was a huge deal, but I can only think of a few issues in more recent times. Obviously on the Iron Islands they were very hostile to the Faith of the Seven, several times (even during the reigns of the Targaryens) expelling septons from the islands (if they were lucky), and destroying any septs. I can't recall there being any sort of issue in the North with the Manderlys and White Harbor holding the Faith of the Seven rather than the old gods. I know there's King Humphrey Teague who tried to suppress worship of the old gods in the riverlands, leading to rebellion from the Blackwoods (allied with the Vances and Tullys), which eventually lead to the Storm Kings ruling the riverlands and took place, what, around 400ish years before Aegon's Conquest? The Faith Militant uprising seemed mostly concerned with the crown and not particularly interested in anything to do with the old gods. The only other major incident I can recall regarding the Faith and the old gods was that some thought Baelor the Blessed wanted to convert all non-believers, which would've caused issue with the North and the Iron Islands. Still, believers in the old gods seem to have been accepted at court without any (that we know of) serious objection from the Faith. Bloodraven served as Hand of the King, and the main objection to him from the High Septon seems to have been that he was a bastard (at least according to Egg). There were certainly other objections to Bloodraven too, but he was still able to perform his office's duties, and most of the dislike of him doesn't seem to be tied to his religion. Beyond that, Cregan Stark also served as Hand of the King, although considering the circumstances there wasn't a ton of leverage for anyone to complain. Betha Blackwood was even queen, although for all we know she may have converted to the Faith at some point. Still, Aegon's court doesn't seem to have been hostile to the old gods, what with Jenny of Oldstones and the ghost of High Heart being welcomed. Beyond all that, Ned Stark is able to serve as Hand of the King with no apparent opposition from the Faith, and the High Septon is outraged when a "heathen" is executed in the Great Sept of Baelor. Also Sansa, who to be fair was raised with both the old gods and the Faith of the Seven, is considered an acceptable marriage option for Joffrey. All that said, the sparrow movement seems to be a bit different from the power structures running the Faith at the end of the second century. Still, despite their origins in the riverlands I can't seem to recall any talk of them coming into conflict with the Blackwoods or with the Brotherhood Without Banners. There is definitely obvious conflict regarding R'hllorism, though, especially Melisandre's practice of it to the exclusion of other faiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower of Almond Joy Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I remembered that Sansa plays the harp. I assumed it was one of those tall types that stand up. But if it is a smaller one, what happened to it? Did she take it to King's Landing? The reason I am curious is because someone mentioned clues that could be right under our noses. I wonder if her harp is Rhaegar's harp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Do you guys have any links to good theories regarding Jaqen's movements? (Search function isn't working). Or is there a better place to ask? Read the FM one in the compendium but was looking for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Do you guys have any links to good theories regarding Jaqen's movements? (Search function isn't working). Or is there a better place to ask?Read the FM one in the compendium but was looking for others. Some people would have you believe that every Faceless Man we hear about is Jaqen. In all likelihood he's just Jaqen, the Alchemist and then Pate. There's no reason to think he was the one who helped Balon off that bridge. Martin had this to say when asked: I know I am not alone in this as my boyfriend tells me there is much speculation on the discussion board he uses that a good half a dozen characters may be Faceless Men or indeed the same Faceless Man. Some of my readers have livelier imaginations than I do. Well, I won't comment, except to say that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Questions_About_the_Faceless_Men Even though the search is down you can still use google to search the forums with something like https://www.google.com/#q=site:http:%2F%2Fasoiaf.westeros.org%2F+Jaqen+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Some people would have you believe that every Faceless Man we hear about is Jaqen. In all likelihood he's just Jaqen, the Alchemist and then Pate. There's no reason to think he was the one who helped Balon off that bridge. Martin had this to say when asked: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Questions_About_the_Faceless_Men Even though the search is down you can still use google to search the forums with something like https://www.google.com/#q=site:http:%2F%2Fasoiaf.westeros.org%2F+Jaqen+Actually I think he may have finished his business at the Citadel and returned to check on Arya at the House of Black and White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Was Qhorin Halfhand an ironborn? Only Qhorins I find in the wikia are indeed ironborn. Not to mention the Qhoreds, Qhorwyn and such, also ironborn. Did I miss him saying he was ironborn in the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Grimes Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 prolly been answered somwhere. if so could someone direct me to the right thread? why was Dany "loathe to go against ser barristans counsel" but did JUST THAT when he repeatedly asked her to assemble an army and take the fight to the yunkish and she refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Are the Manderlys more richer in the North than they were in the Reach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Widow of Coldmoat Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Are the Manderlys more richer in the North than they were in the Reach? I'd say yes. The Manderlys brought much wealth with them to the North to build White Harbor. Beyond that, they created a major port city, and the biggest population center in the North, in contrast to their former seat in the Reach, which is currenty of somewhat undetermined importance. Still, their incomes from all of the trade and such in White Harbor, combined with the fact that they don't seem to have any rivals in the North like the Peakes in the Reach, definitely leads me to believe they are wealthier in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Actually I think he may have finished his business at the Citadel and returned to check on Arya at the House of Black and White. Then who is the Pate we meet at the end of Feast? And when did we see Jaqen in Braavos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 prolly been answered somwhere. if so could someone direct me to the right thread? why was Dany "loathe to go against ser barristans counsel" but did JUST THAT when he repeatedly asked her to assemble an army and take the fight to the yunkish and she refused.cause she's just a young girl and knows little of the ways of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Then who is the Pate we meet at the end of Feast? And when did we see Jaqen in Braavos?The Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt went to the Citadel, where we saw him in The Prologue to Feast and Samwell V, Feast 45. That is virtually indisputable. But then, acording to our most precise timeline, we have about a month between Samwell V, Feast 45 and The Ugly Little Girl, Dance 64, when Arya serves at table for a dinner gathering of several Faceless Men, including one who questions her about her desire to take the step in order. I suspect that man could be the Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt. According to our most precise timeline travel factors, it should only take a couple of weeks to get from Oldtown to Braavos by ship. So, if the Faceless Man did what a man must do shortly after Samwell arrived in Oldtown, he might have been able to hire a ship with a very brave captain, maybe even the Cinnamon Wind, to get out of Oldtown, and then up to Braavos in time to meet Arya of House Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Darwin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 prolly been answered somwhere. if so could someone direct me to the right thread? why was Dany "loathe to go against ser barristans counsel" but did JUST THAT when he repeatedly asked her to assemble an army and take the fight to the yunkish and she refused. There is no short or easy answer to this, imho. Trying to make a peace for her people, then holding it together, even though that is not what she really wanted, is a central theme in Dany's ADWD arc I think. If you'd like, the Meerenese Blot's essays on Dany deal with that issue a lot, and give (again, in my opinion) an excellent analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 heheh... [...] So, if the Faceless Man did what a man must do shortly after Samwell arrived in Oldtown, he might have been able to hire a ship with a very brave captain, maybe even the Cinnamon Wind, to get out of Oldtown, and then up to Braavos in time to meet Arya of House Stark. ... Then who is the Pate we meet at the end of Feast? And when did we see Jaqen in Braavos? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Some people would have you believe that every Faceless Man we hear about is Jaqen. In all likelihood he's just Jaqen, the Alchemist and then Pate. There's no reason to think he was the one who helped Balon off that bridge. Martin had this to say when asked: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Questions_About_the_Faceless_Men Even though the search is down you can still use google to search the forums with something like https://www.google.com/#q=site:http:%2F%2Fasoiaf.westeros.org%2F+Jaqen+Thanks, yeah those are my thoughts as well, must of the theories regarding his movements I've read are in regards to him are either having him trying to find books (I think Barth's Unnatural History, but i always mix up the book names) in relation to killing dragons or the FM as a whole aligning with the WW to bring death to Westoros. Don't love those ideas so I was searching for some other theories out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Thanks, yeah those are my thoughts as well, must of the theories regarding his movements I've read are in regards to him are either having him trying to find books (I think Barth's Unnatural History, but i always mix up the book names) in relation to killing dragons or the FM as a whole aligning with the WW to bring death to Westoros. Don't love those ideas so I was searching for some other theories out there.This theory is absolutely brilliant...http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/89914-littlefinger-hired-a-faceless-man-to-kill-ned/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 The Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt went to the Citadel, where we saw him in The Prologue to Feast and Samwell V, Feast 45. That is virtually indisputable. But then, acording to our most precise timeline, we have about a month between Samwell V, Feast 45 and The Ugly Little Girl, Dance 64, when Arya serves at table for a dinner gathering of several Faceless Men, including one who questions her about her desire to take the step in order. I suspect that man could be the Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt. According to our most precise timeline travel factors, it should only take a couple of weeks to get from Oldtown to Braavos by ship. So, if the Faceless Man did what a man must do shortly after Samwell arrived in Oldtown, he might have been able to hire a ship with a very brave captain, maybe even the Cinnamon Wind, to get out of Oldtown, and then up to Braavos in time to meet Arya of House Stark. But doesn't this fall apart if say in Samwell I of Winds "Pate" is still hanging around the Citadel? I've always assumed he would be. Thanks, yeah those are my thoughts as well, must of the theories regarding his movements I've read are in regards to him are either having him trying to find books (I think Barth's Unnatural History, but i always mix up the book names) in relation to killing dragons or the FM as a whole aligning with the WW to bring death to Westoros. Don't love those ideas so I was searching for some other theories out there. The book in question is The Death of Dragons, of which only one known copy remains under lock and key at the Citadel. The thinking is that it may explain how the Maesters eliminated the last dragons during the reign of Aegon III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 But doesn't this fall apart if say in Samwell I of Winds "Pate" is still hanging around the Citadel? I've always assumed he would be. Oh absolutely. It's a working theory. (Working on falling off the shelf and cracking!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I don't understand the financial / currency matter. What does ___ buy? Visually speaking. LIke a house, horse, or a whore? And how many ___ = ____ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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