Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D: To Kill a Mockingbird

[Annara Snow]

36 minutes ago, red snow said:

I wouldn't know it's not an argument I made.

So why have AOS cover such apocalyptic events? From what I've gathered the "inhumans" storyline turned out pointless as the film has been dropped. That's not the show's fault but it leaves them hanging.

They could cover stories that don't need the Avengers around. Ghost Rider makes sense as I guess he's not a world ending threat that Avengers (or Dr Strange) need to check out.

I've already said. AoS should feel like the hub of the MCU connecting everything. In reality it is the appendix of the MCU - something that's nice to have around but disposable. Some could argue that's sensible as viewers don't like being told what to and when. I remember people being upset about being told this episode happens after Cap2. Although I thought that was the best run of episodes in season 1.

You keep missing my point though - I want all the franchises to feel connected. I'm not intentionally singling AoS out. I think the movies and the netflix shows are losing something by not feeling connected. But AoS' premise is based around being an international taskforce for handling superhuman threats. So yes, Daredevil should maybe be worried about SHIELD knocking on his door. They should at least have a field agent drop in when there's an arcane apocalypse brewing (this'll be more of an issue for the "defenders" season). I certainly think SHIELD should have popped up when there was a guy who could tell everyone in a NYC hospital to go postal. But my point still remains that SHIELD needs this in their format while Daredevil can get by without it - afterall the question is "why aren't SHIELD on top of this" not "why hasn't Daredevil/Jones told this government agency about this threat"

I'm not trying to convince you not to like it. I'm just pointing out an issue I have with the show.

Because it's a different show, which is on Netflix and released all at once at a different time of the year. There, I answered your question.

I really don't understand what you would actually want. Do you want a real AoS/Daredevil or Jessica Jones crossover? That would be the only way that could work. A crossover is a two way street. You can't have AoS dealing with storylines fron the Netflix shows without the Netlfix shows being affected by it and ignoring it.

But that would pose huge practical problems. Shows can have crossovers only if their seasons are broadcast at the same time at specific timeslots, or one of them is finished or cancelled. AoS was able to have crossovers with the movies because they were released at specific dates during AoS' season. But episodes of Netflix shows are released at once and people can't see all 13 episodes at once, naturally, so how exactly would a crossover with a network show work?

Viewing things from strictly Watsonian perspective, as you're doing, doesn't make much sense to me. But if we're going to do that, you should have just as many problems with the movies. Apply the strictly Watsonian lens to them, and you should be asking "why didn't any of the Avengers help fight Hive".

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I think the greatest thing that ever happened to AoS was that Winter Soldier changed the 'universe' in which they existed. The events of that movie meant that SHIELD itself needed to change. That in itself was a very cool twist of events and improved the show a great deal. That for me was the concept of interconnected show / movie working at its best.

What isn't so important is all these Easter egg moments, where someone mentions 'the guy with the hammer' or 'the events of NY'. Those things are just winks and don't change the show, or make it any more unique. In fact I find them more of a distraction. 

I don't see a need for AoS to reference DD or JJ, or for there to be any crossover at all. I would potentially want that if AoS' only purpose was to be background for those other shows, actually that could work really well as a concept, for it to only exist to expand on movie / show background stories. But it would be too brave a choice to make and would surely fall apart. 

As it is, the show tries to stand on its own feet, and occasionally does it well. I have to admit to having lost interest in S3 and not watched it since, but I can imagine that it could work well within the framework of the events of Civil War and the ever changing universe in that way. 

[red snow]

2 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

 

I really don't understand what you would actually want. Do you want a real AoS/Daredevil or Jessica Jones crossover?

 

No it wouldn't. A SHIELD agent (not even one of the AoS) could turn up in ONE of the shows - and we know the two things interact and that,yes, SHIELD really is competent and on top of things. I don't need a two-part crossover with them all fighting. Just some acknowledgement both shows are aware they exist. And a little bit of internal logic. Unless Ghost Rider is far more dangerous in the show I find it hard to see why he is on their radar while the "purple man" wasn't. Otherwise the answer is the honest one of "AoS are only allowed the characters/organisations that the films and netflix let them".

The reality is there's no reason for netflix to do this unless it was mandated by Disney. AoS are shackled by the fact they most likely can't even use the netflix cast so I understand why they can't do this. It still doesn't negate the fact this is a problem for the AoS show.

 

[DaveSumm]

AoS was massively boosted by the prospect of it being the connective tissue between the movies. SHIELD already was the connective tissue, it was the appearance of Fury and Coulson that marked the first four movies as part of the same universe. Without the MCU tag, the pilot wouldn't have got a tenth of the ratings it did and probably would have been cancelled in it's pretty poor first season.

I'm not looking for more references or more tie-ins, I just want the show (or maybe Feige) to make up its mind; either be that connective tissue (and I'm not buying it's not possible because we've seen it with Winter Soldier, Sitwell getting ordered to head to a ship in an episode, then appearing on said ship in the film) or just admit defeat and go your own way. 

Someone mentioned suspension of disbelief, but why should we have to? We don't have to with the movies, because they're so carefully assembled to fit together. That's what's so impressive about the MCU, the careful planning to make sure this all makes sense and works when all these characters unite in other films. But my belief that this takes place in the same universe is tested by AoS when it shouldn't be; shouldn't Coulson tell the Avengers he's alive? Wouldn't Captain America really like to know about HYDRA's activities? How does he feel about SHIELD being up and running? I don't really blame the show for this, they probably assumed they wouldn't be hung out to dry and so intentionally littered the series with things they thought could tie in: HYDRA, the Kree, Inhumans, these have been the backbone of the first three seasons. I'm more confident now that we seem to have left them behind, there's nothing in the first episode to suggest these play any part in Season 4. I'd love them to tie up the loose ends now, maybe Coulson's resurrection is now a classified (illegal) part of SHIELD that the Avengers can't know about, so he can't tell them? Maybe build on the brief glimpse of Cap being OK with SHIELD in AoU, and establish exactly who SHIELD are now, who knows about them, what their remit is? 

[red snow]

2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I think the greatest thing that ever happened to AoS was that Winter Soldier changed the 'universe' in which they existed. The events of that movie meant that SHIELD itself needed to change. That in itself was a very cool twist of events and improved the show a great deal. That for me was the concept of interconnected show / movie working at its best.



As it is, the show tries to stand on its own feet, and occasionally does it well. I have to admit to having lost interest in S3 and not watched it since, but I can imagine that it could work well within the framework of the events of Civil War and the ever changing universe in that way. 

I agree that was the highlight of the show as far as I watched it. I also think there'd be quite a lot of mileage to get out of Civil War changes things up within MCU and AoS. Although I guess it's hard to tell how it really did shake things up. Did the sokovia accord mean all heroes actually had to be registered? And did this stick at the end of the film? If it did then I'd expect SHIELD to be at the forefront of checking in on unregistered heroes. TBH I tend to think of the comic events more than the actual film events so I'm always muddling it up. I think the film was far more "diet" in terms of the registration impact.

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I really think that AoS could be better if it wasn't into such long form storytelling. Yes its done its best stuff when its been creating a connected overall season arc, and was at its worst when it was doing a 'hero of the week' style storytelling. However that doesn't mean that it would never have worked. 

If AoS was more blatent about it being the connective tissue, rather than trying to forge its own arcs, which end up muddled and have to be shoved around because of MU changes, then it might be better. I can imagine a Daredevil mini arc of 2 episodes, which don't worry about anything other than that. 

I kind of wish the show had doubled down on that aspect instead of trying to create its own brand.