mirthula Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Calling book experts if someone can enlighten us on the topic Greyscale. Greyscale seems like an important thing in the show now and that we know two characters have it Shireen and Jorah. I just have a few doubts: - So how exactly is greyscale contracted, just by touch alone of an infected object. In shireen case it was an infected doll, but in Jorah's case he caught it by touching an stoneman. But Jorah touched Tyrion to rescue him so is Tyrion infected too, since Jorah got greyscale. - How did Shireen get cured or is she cured. How did they manage to stop the spread of greyscale in her body. - Life expectancy of greyscale victims. Will they die after the disease completely spreads and turn them into stone people or they can die anytime it depends from victim to victim. Shireen greyscale might be lying dormant she is not cured but it has stopped spreading. Predictions regarding Jorah is that he is not going to be as lucky as Shireen. I think he is going to die from it and like Tyrion said it will be kinder to put a sword through his heart. Jorah will take the sword and his dying wish will be for Dany to accept him and forgive him and maybe accept Tyrion too and listen to his counsel. What impact will greyscale if any have on rest of GOT, like are we going to see infected stone dragons or mass epidemic or maybe someone finding a cure finally and treating those infected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Greyscale seems to be related to Vitamin D (according to one fan theory) since it is more deadly North of the Wall (which is why Wildlings have such huge taboos against Shireen).It seems to be a combination of Leprosy (the long death time and the social pariah status) and smallpox (more deadly in adults than in children). For this reason Shireen survived her bout with greyscale and Jon Conningto and Jorah are both fated to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeethGrinder Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Grey Plague is hitting Kings Landing or some part of Westeros. This episode all but confirmed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram McDrogon Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Grey Plague is hitting Kings Landing or some part of Westeros. This episode all but confirmed it. I feel like this season is suggesting it's bigger than that. If it's "just" a plague that kills thousands or millions, I doubt the show would have included it - somehow, there's going to be a connection to dragons and/or White Walkers, whether those infected turn out to have an immunity to fire or to ice or whatever. Who knows, maybe that's going to be the twist to the widely accepted theory that Shireen will burn: maybe she can't burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I don't remember , in the books, that Shireen's greyscale was permanently arrested , do I? It seemed it had stopped but was unclear if it would or would not come back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I just have a few doubts: - So how exactly is greyscale contracted, just by touch alone of an infected object. In shireen case it was an infected doll, but in Jorah's case he caught it by touching an stoneman. But Jorah touched Tyrion to rescue him so is Tyrion infected too, since Jorah got greyscale. From my understanding, it isn't quite that deterministic, just like with great many diseases. Will you catch the cold this season? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Continued exposure to infected people certainly increases the risk, but it's still in the realm of risk, probabilities and percentages. And not a one bit, black-or-white, "if you weren't completely safe, then you're surely, without a doubt, one hundred percent fucked" disease, like a zombie infection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Greyscale is possibly magical and, like most other otherworldly plot elements in the books, is delivered with a certain amount of mystery. Exactly how it works is not certain. Is greyscale impervious to dragon fire? Do any greyscale victims get burnt by dragons in the books? The show is making a pretty solid connection between greyscale and Valyria - with all the stone men hanging out there. Seems like it is a dragon/fire related illness from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Tyrion mentioned that he saw the disease before, Where do you think he had seen it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Well, you guys should read the books. There are three types of this disease according to ADwD: 1. Children's greyscale is the mildest form, the one Shireen suffered from. It's progress can be stopped and the patient is then considered to be cured. The portions of skin that turned to stone remain that way, though. Val objects to that opinion, and believes Shireen is still sick. However, we know that children's greyscale usually develops in cold and damp places so it may actually be that the climate north of the Wall - and the wildlings' medical skills - prevented them from figuring that not all children suffering from greyscale die. 2. The adult version of greyscale which always leads to death unless the limb afflicted is cut off at once. Even then there is no guarantee that you won't die. Usually it takes a few years until you reach the stone men stages (madness caused when the sickness goes inside the body). 3. The grey plague is the most lethal version and is essentially a very quick version of adult greyscale. You can die in days or weeks. Illyrio's wife Serra supposedly was killed by the grey plague. It is not clear where greyscale comes from in the books but TWoIaF gave us a hint that it may have been caused by Prince Garin's curse - this Rhoynish Prince cursed the Valyrian dragonlords who slaughtered his people, and then they died of greyscale. Considering the name of the sickness there could be a connection to the Valyrian dragon gene - perhaps Garin's spell messed with the Valyrian dragon gene and caused them to develop deadly dragon features (i.e. scaly skin that killed them) which also turned out to be highly infectious. With Shireen, Selyse, and Mel accompanying Stannis I doubt Shireen is going to be sacrificed. She is important because of her greyscale not (only) because of her blood. I've long suggested that 'the stone beast breathing shadow fire' from Dany's vision may turn out to be a transformed half-human, half-dragon Shireen - in the books Selyse may beg Mel to use her fire magic on her to heal her should the greyscale return (after all, with Stannis supposedly dead Shireen will be queen and very important for both Selyse and Mel's cause). In the show Stannis/Selyse may beg a similar thing from Mel only in their camp rather than at the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I don't remember , in the books, that Shireen's greyscale was permanently arrested , do I?It seemed it had stopped but was unclear if it would or would not come back?Val is the only one who thinks it will come back, as far as I remember. Cressen and Pylos never comment on it being dangerous. Other than Val's comments giving off a vaguely creepy vibe I'm not sure why we should take her too seriously. If the wildlings kill those born with the disease they couldn't possibly know about any potential dormancy - there wouldn't be anyone alive to test the theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Considering the name of the sickness there could be a connection to the Valyrian dragon gene - perhaps Garin's spell messed with with the Valyrian dragon gene and caused them to develop deadly dragon features (i.e. scaly skin that killed them) which also turned out to be highly infectious. With Shireen, Selyse, and Mel accompanying Stannis I doubt Shireen is going to be sacrificed. She is important because of her greyscale not (only) because of her blood. I've long suggested that 'the stone beast breathing shadow fire' from Dany's vision may turn out to be a transformed half-human, half-dragon Shireen - in the books Selyse may beg Mel to use her fire magic on her to heal her should the greyscale return (after all, with Stannis supposedly dead Shireen will be queen and very important for both Selyse and Mel's cause). In the show Stannis/Selyse may beg a similar thing from Mel only in their camp rather than at the Wall. Can dragons get greyscale and literally become stone dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Not as far as we know. But the idea is that the Valyrians magical cross-breeding experiments involving themselves and dragons gave them some dragon features and the greyscale curse/spell sort of ripped a fraction of this dragon element from the Valyrians and turned it into a deadly disease. But perhaps nothing is going to happen to Shireen for the time being and she is simply going to cause a pandemic. It is pretty obvious that Jon Connington in the books and Jorah in the show are set up to ruin things by causing a pandemic. It is easily possible that Jorah/Jon will be able to spread the grey plague as a carrier - they die only slowly or not at all while the people infected by them will have only days or weeks. That will be fun! George said ADwD was supposed to be a 'about disease' before it came out. The Pale Mare covered an aspect of it but not as thoroughly as one would expect, and the grey plague has yet to show up. But it will come. Jon Connington has set it up. People tend to overlook or ignore the effect his sickness will have on Aegon's cause and the Realm as a whole. He may even infect Aegon - however I think his purpose is to start and epidemic only to be put down quickly by his friends. As soon as there is one greyscale patient in the Stormlands Haldon and Aegon will connect the dots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if the pale mare and greyscale will just become greyscale in the show? I do think that sickness is going to be a big part of the shows conclusion - I'm still sure ASoIaF/GoTs is heading towards an apocalypse for the end game, with plagues playing as much a part as rampant cannibalism, white walkers and dragons - but I also think that because the show is hellbent on streamlining everything ATM (which is a good or bad thing, depending on your perspective) that we wont get an outbreak of the runs on screen along with the dragon skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 People that had Greyscale before might not get attack by Stonemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthula Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 I feel like this season is suggesting it's bigger than that. If it's "just" a plague that kills thousands or millions, I doubt the show would have included it - somehow, there's going to be a connection to dragons and/or White Walkers, whether those infected turn out to have an immunity to fire or to ice or whatever. Who knows, maybe that's going to be the twist to the widely accepted theory that Shireen will burn: maybe she can't burn. That is actually quite fascinating, if the origins of the disease was in Valyria there could be some connection to dragons and fire. But in the books the stonemen don't live in Valyria but in the show they are moved there it could be for simplistic reason or there is a reason why they reside in Valyria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthula Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Well, you guys should read the books. There are three types of this disease according to ADwD: 1. Children's greyscale is the mildest form, the one Shireen suffered from. It's progress can be stopped and the patient is then considered to be cured. The portions of skin that turned to stone remain that way, though. Val objects to that opinion, and believes Shireen is still sick. However, we know that children's greyscale usually develops in cold and damp places so it may actually be that the climate north of the Wall - and the wildlings' medical skills - prevented them from figuring that not all children suffering from greyscale die. 2. The adult version of greyscale which always leads to death unless the limb afflicted is cut off at once. Even then there is no guarantee that you won't die. Usually it takes a few years until you reach the stone men stages (madness caused when the sickness goes inside the body). 3. The grey plague is the most lethal version and is essentially a very quick version of adult greyscale. You can die in die or weeks. Illyrio's wife Serra supposedly was killed by the grey plague. It is not clear where greyscale comes from in the books but TWoIaF gave us a hint that it may have been caused by Prince Garin's curse - this Rhoynish Prince cursed the Valyrian dragonlords who slaughtered his people, and then they died of greyscale. Considering the name of the sickness there could be a connection to the Valyrian dragon gene - perhaps Garin's spell messed with the Valyrian dragon gene and caused them to develop deadly dragon features (i.e. scaly skin that killed them) which also turned out to be highly infectious. With Shireen, Selyse, and Mel accompanying Stannis I doubt Shireen is going to be sacrificed. She is important because of her greyscale not (only) because of her blood. I've long suggested that 'the stone beast breathing shadow fire' from Dany's vision may turn out to be a transformed half-human, half-dragon Shireen - in the books Selyse may beg Mel to use her fire magic on her to heal her should the greyscale return (after all, with Stannis supposedly dead Shireen will be queen and very important for both Selyse and Mel's cause). In the show Stannis/Selyse may beg a similar thing from Mel only in their camp rather than at the Wall. Thanks for all the detailed info. I think Shireen and Jorah we are going to see what happens with GreyScale in the show. I hope whatever it is for Shireen sake GreyScale works in her favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The show's given a lot of build up to Greyscale this season, so I'd think there's more going to happen than just Jorah getting it. Didn't JC in the books mention that soaking it with vinegar stops it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barristan-b Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Greyscale is possibly magical and, like most other otherworldly plot elements in the books, is delivered with a certain amount of mystery. Exactly how it works is not certain. Is greyscale impervious to dragon fire? Do any greyscale victims get burnt by dragons in the books? The show is making a pretty solid connection between greyscale and Valyria - with all the stone men hanging out there. Seems like it is a dragon/fire related illness from that. I get the previously mentioned smallpox-type comparisons but agree with it having more of a magical component or being dragon fire related. I liken it to a nuclear fallout disease from the doom happening. Like dragon-style radiation poisoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grufolo Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Can dragons get greyscale and literally become stone dragons? [bEWARE LOTS OF SPOILERS BELOW] Exactly the connection i was trying to make! There are increasing connections being made that lead to the notion that Dragonstone is not just any island. Its vulcanic nature, the presence of dragonglass (They mentioned it in this last epidode!! They would not mention such a thing if that was not relevant). The stone dragons in dragonstone that await patiently will be awoken one day not too far ahead. The doom of Valyria split the land and (almost) created the narrow sea. In between this sea lies this island with gigantic sleeping stone dragons, volcanic in nature as Valyria and full of dragonglass. Is it just one more hint towards the Jon+Shireen? Is it the hint of something much bigger? I have been musing long at the possible importance of Dragonstone in Dragon lore.I remember from the books the constant feeling that the island could very well come alive, just flap its stone wings and fly away. I would not be surprised if one of these things would actually occur, eventually. In the end it may have not been just a chance that a Baratheon and not another lord (Arryn or Stark) had claimed the throne after Aerys. Gruf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grufolo Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 sorry for the double posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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