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[Spoilers All] What do you think Season 5 has spoiled for book readers?


Lord Godric

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The truth is really not to believe any rumours or leak of WOW. It is a work in progress, at this moment of time, GRRM can do what ever he want at his own pace. Some chapters that people talk about may not even make the cut at the end, so just be patient and wait for our "Precious" 2016 or 2017 who care?

The show on the other hand "must go on" there is a lot of money involve and they can't wait after the author. But for me the main reason is that D+D did the "artistic" choice not put an entire book (sorry I am too lazy to check which one) but I am remember while reading it, asking myself "how they gonna include this in the show?" The answer came straight at the start of this S05, they did not. There is enough material in the books for a show to last almost forever.... But some parts are not "sexy enough" or "too hardcore(true fans or readers only" or even "missing too many main characters" to be include into popular the TV show like this one.

Now they can still surprise us if they do the same thing GRRM did by splitting the events happening at the same time in two different book, and catch up with WOW for S07 or S08 may be.

It works amazingly well with the books so why not use the same process for the show?

The problem is it wasn't amazingly well in the books. It was a terrible decision to separate the characters geographically, write a book with no chapters for Tyrion, Jon or Daenerys, and instead spend countless chapters on minor characters like Areo Hotah, Arianne Martel, Asha Greyjoy, Arys Oakheart, Aeron Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy, etc...

And in the show they would never in a million years spend a season going over some characters, and then the next season going over the remaining characters. It never would have worked in the Lord of the Rings, and if it could never work in a movie it certainly was never going to work on a TV show.

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The problem is it wasn't amazingly well in the books. It was a terrible decision to separate the characters geographically, write a book with no chapters for Tyrion, Jon or Daenerys, and instead spend countless chapters on minor characters like Areo Hotah, Arianne Martel, Asha Greyjoy, Arys Oakheart, Aeron Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy, etc...

And in the show they would never in a million years spend a season going over some characters, and then the next season going over the remaining characters. It never would have worked in the Lord of the Rings, and if it could never work in a movie it certainly was never going to work on a TV show.

Meh... we´re still going to have to see something from Balon or Yara. I mean, the question is still unanswered what the Ironborn are doing. They probably change things a lot, combine Euron and Victarion somehow, but they still have to at least kill of Balon and or Yara. (I mean Asha)

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The problem is it wasn't amazingly well in the books. It was a terrible decision to separate the characters geographically, write a book with no chapters for Tyrion, Jon or Daenerys, and instead spend countless chapters on minor characters like Areo Hotah, Arianne Martel, Asha Greyjoy, Arys Oakheart, Aeron Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy, etc...

And in the show they would never in a million years spend a season going over some characters, and then the next season going over the remaining characters. It never would have worked in the Lord of the Rings, and if it could never work in a movie it certainly was never going to work on a TV show.

I have to disagree, the book is great because of choices like that. I don't deny that it was not the easiest part to read but we all went through it and enjoyed the return of the main characters. Everyone has his favourite and those he finds boring. I am sure there is people who read only their favourites chapters and skip the "boring" ones.

So, in a way Reading the book that way, it is doing this the same thing D+D are doing with their show. Get read of what is not "interesting". D+D also have the power to rewrite the storylines and characters to fit their show knowing that they won't be able to use the material from the book in a chronological way.

I have to stay with GRRM on this one, he can take how long he wants and come up with a book of 800 or 2000 pages I will read every single of them with the same pleasure I did before no matter how difficult the reading will be.

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The further we get into Season 5 the more I can't help but think certain plot lines are revealing the book futures of certain characters. I'm thinking mainly of two characters, Brienne and Sansa, because they have drastically different paths in the show and elements of their story lines from the future books seem to have been revealed now.

Is there anything that you think this season has spoiled for us book-readers?

The legacy of the story.

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And in the show they would never in a million years spend a season going over some characters, and then the next season going over the remaining characters.

That's exactly what they did with the Wildlings. Oberyn doesn't appear till Season 4. We don't meet his kids till Season 5. The High Sparrow doesn't appear till Season 5. We meet Roose Bolton in Season 2. Ramsay Bolton appears first in Season 3.

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I think this season main reveal for me is the confirmation that the Kingdom of the North is done for good (and especially that there is no Great Northern Conspiracy planning to crown Jon KoN, or if there is one that it will be of very little importance for the overall plot).



The absence of any mention of Robb's will in previous seasons of the show was a first sign.


Then we have gone two whole seasons with only one mention of the Kingdom of the North (the 3 sec mention of a Stark king when Stannis reads the Mormont girl letter).


IMO having made no key loyal Stark bannermen appear at this point is a sure sign they won't have much importance in the story. And having cut the last remnant of the Kingdom into oblivion (Riverrun just vanished after the red wedding ?) contributes to show KoN has no future / won't be restored. If it had one they would have reminded viewers about its existence and potential to be restored.


Finally having kept Jon only focused on the threat of the Others, in complete contradiction with his book arc where he gets more and more involved in realm affairs and end behaving nearly as a King of the North deciding Alys Karstark wedding, seem to show that aspect of the story (combined with Robb's will and "North remembers" speeches) was just a red herring, and Jon future (if there is one) won't be related to the conflict with the Boltons.




RIP KoN.


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Finally having kept Jon only focused on the threat of the Others, in complete contradiction with his book arc ...

But zombies are so cool. Why waste time on political stuff when you can just have zombie battles?

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TV-LF's downfall will come when he places just a little too much trust in Sansa during his Northern play, and she turns the tables on him gets her revenge. While the rape alone is enough reason to motivate her, it is possible that other factors may add in, such as learning about LF's betrayal of her father. Either way, the Savage Giant will fall in the Castle of Snow. I've long felt that this prophecy referred to him and E6 amplified those feelings immensely.

What will be in the books? Again, we need something that would cause Sansa to betray LF, but something he doesn't know about. I don't think a rape by Harry the Heir would push her over the edge, as unlike Ramsay, whom LF pushed on her, Harry is someone she is choosing of her own free will. Therefore, I think the most likely candidate is for Sansa to learn that LF betrayed her father.

This makes me realize that the show writers are probably going to write out Catelyn altogether, if Sansa is destined to seek vengeance on LF. Sansa's current story is a combination of her book story and Jeyne's, and after TV Sansa serves her purpose in this arc, I see no reason for Sansa to not use whatever resources she has in the North and seek revenge on LF and every Bolton, Frey, and Lannister in the nation. Clearly she still has loyalists on her side, and maybe the BwB will come into play. TV LF's purpose is in putting the North in Sansa's possession so he may manipulate her, and soon she will have the means with the motive to accomplish her revenge.

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Zombies were introduced in the first chapter of book 1 and are clearly going to be the main antagonists in the end. If you're not a fan of the zombie genre, perhaps this is the wrong series for you.

You are missing the point. It's true that "Zombies" are intruduced in the first chapter of book 1, but they only appear two more times in the first five books.

The criticism is not that there are zombies. The criticism is that they add a lot of appearances of zombies, thus disminishing their impact and taking away time from other storylines.

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You are missing the point. It's true that "Zombies" are intruduced in the first chapter of book 1, but they only appear two more times in the first five books.

The criticism is not that there are zombies. The criticism is that they add a lot of appearances of zombies, thus disminishing their impact and taking away time from other storylines.

A couple glimpses here and there aren't hitting the fans in the face with the zombie apocalypse. It's a proper build towards the final showdown. Hardhome was a perfectly placed event that showed the audience exactly what the world is up against. Or would you prefer that the White Walkers remain invisible until the final battle?

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Dragon in the North,



If you reread Borodin's comment, he was complaining that the showrunners have sacrificed the entire political side of Jon's storyline and have devoted most of the screentime to the fight against the others. It's a trend that it's becoming very common in the show: priorizing what's "cool" and "badass" instead of what's "deep" or "thought-provoking".



That's why I was telling you that your reply made no sense. The show is about zombies, yes, but also about many other things. And the zombies are not the essence. We do not complain about the appearance of zombies. We complain about devoting half an hour to zombies and ignoring a lot of other aspects that are much more important.


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Seeing that Birgitte Sørensen (the wildling woman who rose up with blue eyes in the end of the episode) is confirmed for the 10th episode by her casting agency, I wonder if it confirms something about Val who returned from Hardhome with blue eyes.

Thats a mistake, She even said in an interview that she is not in episode 10 cause IMDB reported she was

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Dragon in the North,

If you reread Borodin's comment, he was complaining that the showrunners have sacrificed the entire political side of Jon's storyline and have devoted most of the screentime to the fight against the others. It's a trend that it's becoming very common in the show: priorizing what's "cool" and "badass" instead of what's "deep" or "thought-provoking".

That's why I was telling you that your reply made no sense. The show is about zombies, yes, but also about many other things. And the zombies are not the essence. We do not complain about the appearance of zombies. We complain about devoting half an hour to zombies and ignoring a lot of other aspects that are much more important.

Offering an alliance with the wildings is political. And if you've read all his other comments, you would have seen that he seems to have problems with zombies in general and all his comments bashing the episode are because it felt like World War Z.

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