If Mel is leaving with Stannis, does that mean Bran will save Jon? [Book Spoilers]

[Charlie Hustle]

We don't know WHO saves Jon in the first place. For all we know, he could save himself. Or some random person.

I think it's premature to say that Melisandre is going to be the one to save him.

Or if he is saved at all. Do we all forget who writes these books? It would be a lot easier to axe John Snow and kill the R+L=J rumor from the storyline. That would really piss a ton of people off.

[Arkash]

Davos "When the battle comes, promise you'll protect me." to Shireen screams that may happen in a twisted way !

[chambraigne]

I have never been a fan of Mel. Her character just bothers me, so I really dislike any possible connection she could have with Jon and the Starks.

I think Bran may have a role. How I don't know. As Sj4 mentioned above, we have no idea at the moment what it going on in terms of Jon's state.

Personally I think Jon is wounded, but not mortally wounded, and Ghost arrived on scene. How Ghost got there, I think, could have something to do with Bran/BR. No idea, pure speculation. I do believe Ghost is there though, and Jon may not need the type of saving many people believe he needs.

Jon seems to lose control of his body when he's being stabbed. I'm wondering if he has accidentally warged into someone else's body and Jon isn't being stabbed at all.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Or if he is saved at all. Do we all forget who writes these books? It would be a lot easier to axe John Snow and kill the R+L=J rumor from the storyline. That would really piss a ton of people off.

It would "piss" people off, but for reasons I am not sure you are getting at.

That would essentially make a ton of clues since GoT completely worthless. A huge part of the story-line would be worthless, because R+L=J turned out to be nothing more than a cool side-note that Jon, in fact, never learned. That alone would cause a rain of literary critiques calling into question Martin's legitimacy as a writer.

Aside from Martin stating that he would not change things because readers have followed his clues and because he is "not a liar", I doubt he would spend so much time weaving these clues in and out of the story for no reason at all. That would seem pointless.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

Or if he is saved at all. Do we all forget who writes these books? It would be a lot easier to axe John Snow and kill the R+L=J rumor from the storyline. That would really piss a ton of people off.

Jon Snow at least lives on in the TV series according to an article in Vanity Fair. Kit Harrington is signed on through Season 7.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Jon seems to lose control of his body when he's being stabbed. I'm wondering if he has accidentally warged into someone else's body and Jon isn't being stabbed at all.

That entire scene occurred on just the final page correct? So very little text is involved. My guess is that the entire scene happened in less than 30 seconds. The shock and horror, I think, would be enough to disrupt someone's thought process.

I mean that would be an interesting occurrence, but the motion of the chapter from the opening page until the end seems too fluid. Anything is possible with Martin, but it seems odd that Jon would be walking along and suddenly skinchanges into another man without any clue that something is amiss.

[Boudica]

Yes I have never been in favor of that idea to begin with. I would prefer Bran have something to do with protecting or saving Jon instead of Mel.

If Jon does need some intervention, it has always seemed much more logical that it would be through Bran and the old gods. The old gods already give him Ghost.

Well sadly I think Stannis is going to get captured probably killed as well. I don't think Boltons are going to be defeated if nothing else they are the last evil house standing, characters are needed to create tension in the story. Lannisters had a leg to stand of when Tywin was alive but unfortunately Cersei is a joke so there is no one left to create any trouble except for LF and the dornish are essentially good guys.

I think Jon is going to have to take down Boltons when he is resurrected. It will be his warm up fight before the war at the wall. Mid season 6 is when Jon will be back at WinterFell released from his vows at the Watch and take the Boltons down. I think we better buckle up for a lot of pain for Stannis, his family and Sansa too. I think Sansa might manage to escape to get to Jon and she will return back with Jon for her revenge. I think after the Boltons are eliminated I really think Sansa and Brienne are going to pay LF a visit and take care of him.

That sounds like a very reasonable conclusion. What would really be interesting about such a situation is that other claimants for the throne such as Dany the Martells and perhaps the Tyrells, would hear about the Stark conquest or the retaking of Winterfell, and they might try to negotiate with them. Jon could then perhaps try to negotiate with the others for more men to fight the real war. And even if Stannis wins the battle at Winterfell, Jon would still have to go there he cant just return to the Nights Watch, the whole Nights Watch could very likely be destroyed if the Wildlings and Nights Watch Brothers fought against each other.

On the other hand there are some stories that Jon might have to go to the Lands of Always Winter and perhaps he would have to pay a visit to Bran's cave, but at this stage it really wouldn't be that exciting if Jon had to go beyond the wall once again. I guess he could just use the cave to walk to Winterfell.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

If past history is any clue, then House Stark will be fighting the Boltons till the end. In TWOIAF it states:

.....Yet the bitterest foes of Winterfell were undoubtably the Red King's of the Dreadfort, those grim lords of House Bolton whose domains of old stretched from the Last River to the White Knife, and as far south as the Sheepshead Hills.............The enmity between the Starks and .boltons went back to the Long Night itself, it is claimed. The wars between these two ancient families were legion, and not all ended in victory for House Stark. King Royce Bolton, Second of His Name, is said to have taken and burned Winterfell itself; his namesake and descendent Royce IV .....so on and so on.... Yet in the end, even the Dreadfort feel before the might of Winterfell....

I think Stannis is going to lose,

[lostinwesteros]

Jon Snow at least lives on in the TV series according to an article in Vanity Fair. Kit Harrington is signed on through Season 7.

I'm not sure, but seems I read somewhere that all main characters are contracted for that many seasons, because if one of them weren't, ta da, we'd know they were toast.

That said, I've been thinking all along, and also as I've read through this thread, that we don't know that Jon is dead at all. That's been my sense from ADWD, but in the TV series as well, I see such powerful foreshadowing in the conversation Aemon had with Sam 5.05 about how sad/wrong that there should be only 1 Targaryen alone in the world, then in walks Jon on cue, that I can't see him exiting for a long, long time.

[Boudica]

I have never been a fan of Mel. Her character just bothers me, so I really dislike any possible connection she could have with Jon and the Starks.

I think Bran may have a role. How I don't know. As Sj4 mentioned above, we have no idea at the moment what it going on in terms of Jon's state.

Personally I think Jon is wounded, but not mortally wounded, and Ghost arrived on scene. How Ghost got there, I think, could have something to do with Bran/BR. No idea, pure speculation. I do believe Ghost is there though, and Jon may not need the type of saving many people believe he needs.

I also think Jon is most likely injured, perhaps gravely injured, or maybe he ends up in a coma and he might need a long time to heal, in the meantime he could warg Ghost and speak to Bran. It would just make much more literary sense for Jon to be injured. I cant see that Jon's character would be able to function properly if he is resurrected or if he is some kind of dead came back alive character.

Or if he is saved at all. Do we all forget who writes these books? It would be a lot easier to axe John Snow and kill the R+L=J rumor from the storyline. That would really piss a ton of people off.

Well GRRM has stated that Jon will find out who his real parents are. Jon is one of the most fleshed out characters after participating in the series from the start, it would seem like bad writing to just kill him off now. But then at the same time I would rather see Jon really dead then having more Lady Stoneheart characters running around. GRRM sees resurrection as a person losing a part of himself, he would then stop writing POV's for Jon. It would be a bit of a waste to have this fleshed out character and for this character to discover the biggest event of his life and you cant write it directly from him own POV. Resurrections are strange you are basically like a walking dead person, walking around on borrowed time, finding out your linage wouldn't exactly mean much to such a person.

Or on the other hand creating some kind of a loophole for Jon to magically be brought back to life so that he could fore full his Night Watch vows without any repercussions, would also not be good writing. Basically for the book story to work at its best Jon would have to be injured, other resurrections just wouldn't really cut the mustard.

But the show is a different animal they dont have to concern themselves with POV's and making literary sense, so they might take another approach to this problem.

[Boudica]

Jon Snow at least lives on in the TV series according to an article in Vanity Fair. Kit Harrington is signed on through Season 7.

All of the top billed actors on the show signed for seven years, but they can still be killed off before the seven years is over. A big clue might be Kit Harington's hair, if he suddenly has much much shorter hair, then his time on GOT is very likely over.

[King Zee]

Jon seems to lose control of his body when he's being stabbed. I'm wondering if he has accidentally warged into someone else's body and Jon isn't being stabbed at all.

That is what happens when a person suffers physical trauma.

[Boudica]

I'm not sure, but seems I read somewhere that all main characters are contracted for that many seasons, because if one of them weren't, ta da, we'd know they were toast.

That said, I've been thinking all along, and also as I've read through this thread, that we don't know that Jon is dead at all. That's been my sense from ADWD, but in the TV series as well, I see such powerful foreshadowing in the conversation Aemon had with Sam 5.05 about how sad/wrong that there should be only 1 Targaryen alone in the world, then in walks Jon on cue, that I can't see him exiting for a long, long time.

GRRM could keep Jon out of the books for a long time, he might even only start writing about him at the end of TWOF. But the TV series cant really do that with Kit Harington.

[dogprivilege]

RRM could keep Jon out of the books for a long time, he might even only start writing about him at the end of TWOF. But the TV series cant really do that with Kit Harington.

This is what I think is going to happen. I could definitely see him out for 1/2 to 2/3 of the book. Apparently Dany is supposed to spend at least most of Winds in Essos still, and I'd argue the show can't really do that either. I think she's in Westeros by mid season 6, hopefully leaving by 603 or 604 and Jon will come back at maybe around the same time.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I think the show will take a different, less subtle approach. They will probably have him rise from the flames like Dany because 'how badass' and then he will be declared as AA reborn. It will mirror Dany hatching the dragons. It is just so D&D.

I don't think the books will go with this approach, though. I'm all for Bran resurrecting Jon.

That being said, there are rumours that Jon will be carried away by the Nights King. Perhaps, this happens but Bran and the children somehow intervene....?

The above doesnt sound too bad, tbh. Plus they've been laying some R+L=J shit really thick. So....Jon walking out of a pyre ala Dany wouldnt be too bad or even out of the question. As for him being the new NK, i doubt it. I think Darth Night's King there is supposed to be our more supernatural Big Bad instead. We probably wont see more Other action until next season.

Also, how do we know Jon even needs resurrecting? lol. Thats not set in stone yet, but i would reckon a more Old Godsy approach.

[Associate Maester]

Definitely seems like they are laying the groundwork for a trip to Oldtown though, what with all the mentions to it? I think Mel, along with Selyse and SHireen, will end up back at the Wall in time for the Ides of Marsh.

Seems pretty obvious that is what happens. They end up back in time for FTW. We know stuff goes down in Stannis' camp with the fires and in an interview Liam Cunningham said something major happens due to the "Red Woman" that causes tensions to come to a dramatic conclusion/dramatic head.

[JonisHenryTudor]

This is what I think is going to happen. I could definitely see him out for 1/2 to 2/3 of the book. Apparently Dany is supposed to spend at least most of Winds in Essos still, and I'd argue the show can't really do that either. I think she's in Westeros by mid season 6, hopefully leaving by 603 or 604 and Jon will come back at maybe around the same time.

I am not so sure about that. That would also mean keeping the Wall out of the book. You have to keep one thing in mind here, and that is there are two books left. If the NW dumped Jon's body north of the wall and that is the last we hear of him for two-thirds of the book...sure.The story at the Wall could proceed, etc I doubt that is the case though.

If we have to wait until the end of WoW, that essentially means that everything from that point to the end of DoS is going to be rushed. So what? A single chapter on Jon's condition. The second chapter is his transformation. The final chapter or two is about the arrival of the Others, and depending on your stance either the fight ensures or Jon allies with them? Then DoS is a quick march south/or fleeing northerners to meet/fight Dany? If Martin is going to avoid rushing the story, I would expect to have a chapter from the wall in the first 100 pages of the book. Also considering that Martin commented about not having new pov's, that leave us with Jon and Mel?

Obviously it is possible, but I think waiting until the final third of the book to re-introduce the north into the story would be a terrible idea. Also, after that cliffhanger, Martin has got to know a vast majority of his fans are likely going to look for the first Jon chapter. I am not suggesting that he writes to meet his fans, but I think for the story to flow we need a fairly quick Wall chapter. I think the book opens in Mareen, but after that I think we return to the Wall. Either after Winterfell or before.

And I won't be surprised if A) it is a Mel pov and a much larger rebellion is happening at CB... or B) it begins the way the chapter ended ....__________ from Jon's pov

[TeethGrinder]

All I ask is that I get to read Stannis' death before I watch it.

[Faint]

I must admit I dont really like sound of hearing about more seduction scenes between Jon and Melisandre. I can already see something like Jon lying around being injured, and Melisandre drugging him up on milk of the poppy or something, and seducing him by pretending to be Ygitte. Urgg I hope something like that doesn't happen.

She did not say it was another seduction scene, only that it would be far more shocking.

[Kiss of Fire 2]

Mel = Red Herring...show and books. She is a distraction to keep us from the answer....how will Jon be resurrected, assuming he is dead.

The NW vow is similar.....often used in theories about releasing Jon from his obligation to the NW. Shall we count how many times Jon has broken that vow? It (vow) only holds power for those who believe it does.....and who gives a crow's ass.....Winter is Coming!

Jon will totally be brought back (if dead) by the most badass Old God there is.....a living Wierwood "controlled" by his brother Bran who has been hanging with Blood Raven. Bran will find Jon through Summer/Ghost.