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Jaime/Walder the "good guys", Jon/Dany the "bad guys"?


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Sorry if this has been discussed previously - but I have read a GREAT theory (http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html) about how ASOIAF could be following Norse mythology about the end of days.... and while I disagree with some of the small things, I think it makes sense that GRRM (who dislikes neat good vs. bad stories) to go directly against what we are expecting to happen... and have the people we have been routing against since the first book end up being the saviors of humanity



SPOILERS TO FOLLOW:


Where did we leave off after ADWD?


Dany has sworn "fire and blood" and has the Westeros equivalent of WMD oin Drogon... Jon was stabbed by his "family"... and could be going all UnCat.... Bran is in the dark, might have eaten his friend, and is working with a group that mankind has driven almost to extinction dar


Jaime has saved Brienne, turned his back on his evil sister, and generally tryng to be a better person... Walder Frey guards the quickest path between the north and the rest of Westeros for when the others start attacking...



What does everyone think? The link above goes into far more depth than I have here, but Jaime being the one-handed savior of mankind would be quite the twist... as would Azor Ahai (Jon) being a bad guy (the world destroyer in Norse myth, Surtr, carriers a flaming sword and destroys the barrier between the world of man and the other realms (ie - the wall)


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About the Twins standing between the Others and the rest of Westeros... If they've survived under ice for thousands of years, I think they can cross a river without a bridge. Haven't we heard about the Others walking out of the ocean at Eastwatch by the Sea?


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Really, someone read the almost 5000 pages of these books and their conclusion is that GRRM entire creative impulse for the series is trying to retell Norse mythology?

:dunno:

not a direct retelling - he is sympathizing with those on the side of the "giants" and showing the gods to be monsters... its just that the gods - mostly out of selfishness - will be fighting on the side of mankind

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ASOIAF is a story, not a puzzle box. This is what I hate about all the theorycrafting stuff. People are combing the text for obscure clues so they can solve some mystery embedded in the text, rather than trying to enjoy the story as a story. ASOIAF is not a retelling of Norse mythology, Howland Reed is not the High Septon, and Euron is not Daario (or the smokey woman).

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ASOIAF is a story, not a puzzle box. This is what I hate about all the theorycrafting stuff. People are combing the text for obscure clues so they can solve some mystery embedded in the text, rather than trying to enjoy the story as a story. ASOIAF is not a retelling of Norse mythology, Howland Reed is not the High Septon, and Euron is not Daario (or the smokey woman).

He isn't retelling, but his story is surely based on some mythologies. Not details, and not everything, of course, but many things are well known from old legends and myths.

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Well, some elements come from Norse Mythology, but it's a basis for most fantasy (LotR was also heavily influenced). Although I see specifically the Wagnerian verse elements with some twists. Lady walks into husband's funeral pyre - instead of the entire cast dying in an apocalyptic doom, suddenly dragons! Twincest (with the woman having an asshole husband) - instead of a dragonslayer with a powerhouse voice, we get King Twat and two decent kids. Frustrated dwarf wants revenge - check. Trickster character associated with fire - check.


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ASOIAF is a story, not a puzzle box. This is what I hate about all the theorycrafting stuff. People are combing the text for obscure clues so they can solve some mystery embedded in the text, rather than trying to enjoy the story as a story. ASOIAF is not a retelling of Norse mythology, Howland Reed is not the High Septon, and Euron is not Daario (or the smokey woman).

It sounds like this forum might be not be the best place you to be spending your time then...

ASOIAF is ABSOLUTELY a retelling of Norse Mythology...

Howland Reed probably is the High Septon... Why, because these forums which are controlled by GRRM tried so hard to squash the idea

Mance Rayder probably is Rhaegar Targaryen... Why, because these forums which are controlled by GRRM tried so hard to squash the idea

In GRRM's world, all things trend toward more intrigue... So if you have a doubt about something, the correct answer is probably the more intriguing one...

---

With your attitude, my advice is to just go ahead & skip the rest of the series... you won't like it...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry if this has been discussed previously - but I have read a GREAT theory (http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html) about how ASOIAF could be following Norse mythology about the end of days.... and while I disagree with some of the small things, I think it makes sense that GRRM (who dislikes neat good vs. bad stories) to go directly against what we are expecting to happen... and have the people we have been routing against since the first book end up being the saviors of humanity

SPOILERS TO FOLLOW:

Where did we leave off after ADWD?

Dany has sworn "fire and blood" and has the Westeros equivalent of WMD oin Drogon... Jon was stabbed by his "family"... and could be going all UnCat.... Bran is in the dark, might have eaten his friend, and is working with a group that mankind has driven almost to extinction dar

Jaime has saved Brienne, turned his back on his evil sister, and generally tryng to be a better person... Walder Frey guards the quickest path between the north and the rest of Westeros for when the others start attacking...

What does everyone think? The link above goes into far more depth than I have here, but Jaime being the one-handed savior of mankind would be quite the twist... as would Azor Ahai (Jon) being a bad guy (the world destroyer in Norse myth, Surtr, carriers a flaming sword and destroys the barrier between the world of man and the other realms (ie - the wall)

I have found tons of similarities with the Slavic myths in the Song, non of which are about turning the story upside down... However, I don't think that mythology will be the guidance for GRRM, and expect that some character changes are in order - I also think Jaime will play a significant role in the war with the WW, but more due to his ongoing character change and the realisation of the whole realm that who will sit the IT is insignificant when facing the total annihilation. I believe that many characters will have to grow up and start thinking about the common good, not just what's good for themselves. In order to survive many will have to change their selfish ways. So far, only Jon has thought of feeding and preparing an army to meet the Others...

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I also think it's pretty clear that the Night's Watch will fail, in a darkly hilarious way to meet the threat for which they were formed to face.



Likely the Children/Singers are aligned with or have a non aggression pact with the Others. That fits into Norse mythology as told by Marvel Studios.


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Howland Reed probably is the High Septon... Why, because these forums which are controlled by GRRM tried so hard to squash the idea

Mance Rayder probably is Rhaegar Targaryen... Why, because these forums which are controlled by GRRM tried so hard to squash the idea

.

You couldn't really possibly believe any of that? Mance is Rhaegar ??😂😂😂

The Howland Reed thing is full of very big gaping holes and was presented as nothing more than a fun what if theory... You're not suppose to actually believe it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You couldn't really possibly believe any of that? Mance is Rhaegar ??

The Howland Reed thing is full of very big gaping holes and was presented as nothing more than a fun what if theory... You're not suppose to actually believe it.

I think he was being sarcastic. GRRM did, I believe, dispel the notion that the High Sparrow is anyone but the High Sparrow.

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I also think it's pretty clear that the Night's Watch will fail, in a darkly hilarious way to meet the threat for which they were formed to face.

Likely the Children/Singers are aligned with or have a non aggression pact with the Others. That fits into Norse mythology as told by Marvel Studios.

The first part I think is true. The second part seems to be contradicted by Bran's entry into Bloodraven's cave. The Singers seem like they are hiding out from men and the Others.

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