The Flash - Stupidest man alive

[Jaxom 1974]

Another decent episode but I'm still hung up on Henry Allen. I guess there's nothing like spending your son's whole life in prison to make you want to go on camping and fishing trips by yourself as soon as you get out.

I'm more convinced than ever that Zoom is Henry Allen.

[RedEyedGhost]

I'm more convinced than ever that Zoom is Henry Allen.

I think that's much more likely than Jay Garrick.

[red snow]

I'm more convinced than ever that Zoom is Henry Allen.

All it was lacking was a "evil glance" during the father and son hug and I think the scene with Wells pretending to care about Cisco was mirroring of the Barry and his dad scene. But who knows? I fear I project quality onto this show most of the time. It's the same with Jay as Zoom the options are a) clever writing from the show or b ) lazy writing where they can't juggle the cast and just have him storm off until it is convenient for him to return. The second scenario is much more likely. Same with Daddy Allen.

If Daddy Allen is Zoom it will be interesting to find out when he was replaced (as I'm sure it's Earth 2 Daddy Allen). I really hope it was before he made the shitty decision to just leave. It'd be sad if Earth 1 Dad was killed before he was ever released though.

It's strange out of all the Flash villains, Grodd always seems to work. Not sure how good an idea it was sending him to a city of intelligent apes - I see the rise of a dictator there (no surprise based on the comics).

The show remains solid fun. Am I a bad person to enjoy watching Cisco get punched in the face?

[Red Tiger]

I'm more convinced than ever that Zoom is Henry Allen.

Im more convinced than ever that this plot needs to hurry the fuck up.

[Jon AS]

The shit these writers try to milk for drama is ridiculous. Lies about soup preferences?

Barry, if you're going to lie to people close to you for no good reason, put some effort into it, at least!

We as the audience know that Patty is almost certainly just a temporary love interest, but Barry should really be treating her better.

 

What's the point of Patty's character anyway? She's not getting involved in the meat of the plots (not for want of trying on her part, just Barry and Joe doing the same shit to her they were doing to Iris last season), yet she gets more screentime than, for example, Iris. Is she just there to make sure that when Barry gets with Iris, it's not the first relationship we see him in? Or is the sidelining of Iris a sign that they're abandoning that plan?

 

I think Grodd works pretty well because his origin makes him much more of a victim than most of Barry's foes, which imbues him with a surprising amount of pathos. He's also so inherently ridiculous that he manages to eclipse most of the stupidity in the plot. I'd still like to know why Barry wasn't wearing the convenient psi-blockers Cisco designed (how many patents does he hold at this point? Or does everything he invents immediately become property of Star Labs?).

[red snow]

Im more convinced than ever that this plot needs to hurry the fuck up.

I don't have a problem with the pacing regarding Zoom's identity, mainly because none of the characters in the show seem bothered. For them it's a case of "where is he" and "how do we stop him". Which is conveniently stupid because knowing who he was would also help with the other two questions.

The shit these writers try to milk for drama is ridiculous. Lies about soup preferences?

Barry, if you're going to lie to people close to you for no good reason, put some effort into it, at least!

We as the audience know that Patty is almost certainly just a temporary love interest, but Barry should really be treating her better.

 

What's the point of Patty's character anyway? She's not getting involved in the meat of the plots (not for want of trying on her part, just Barry and Joe doing the same shit to her they were doing to Iris last season), yet she gets more screentime than, for example, Iris. Is she just there to make sure that when Barry gets with Iris, it's not the first relationship we see him in? Or is the sidelining of Iris a sign that they're abandoning that plan?

 

I think Grodd works pretty well because his origin makes him much more of a victim than most of Barry's foes, which imbues him with a surprising amount of pathos. He's also so inherently ridiculous that he manages to eclipse most of the stupidity in the plot. I'd still like to know why Barry wasn't wearing the convenient psi-blockers Cisco designed (how many patents does he hold at this point? Or does everything he invents immediately become property of Star Labs?).

Good points.

Don't forget Joe saying "I wish I could have been a real dad" followed by a wistful look of deceit on Iris' face. Such a shame given how well she and Joe dealt with the silly "your mum's not dead" story.

Patty has a comic history so there's possibly that. I still want her to be evil but it'll probably require a doppelganger at this point. Then there's the worrying possibility of a comic fridging. It is a joke that he won't tell her the truth as there's absolutely no reason not to. She's a cop aware of metas - far more trustworthy than a reporter who's an ex.

You're right that Grodd is a genuine victim/product of his environment. And unabashadly ridiculous.

[briantw]

What's the point of Patty's character anyway? She's not getting involved in the meat of the plots (not for want of trying on her part, just Barry and Joe doing the same shit to her they were doing to Iris last season), yet she gets more screentime than, for example, Iris. Is she just there to make sure that when Barry gets with Iris, it's not the first relationship we see him in? Or is the sidelining of Iris a sign that they're abandoning that plan?

I think she's just there because they wanted a love interest that wasn't Iris, seeing as Barry went all of last season pining after her and it was absolutely one of the worst parts of the show.  Given that Patty is just about a perfect fit for Barry, it would be nice if this was a relationship he didn't sabotage because he's still in love with Iris.  I mean, he doesn't have to stay with her, but it would be nice if something happened other than her finding out he's in love with Iris and inevitably breaking it off.  She can die, turn out to be a supervillain, whatever.  I'm just sick of the subplot in superhero shows and movies where the characters keep destroying relationships with perfectly good partners because they're destined to be with someone else because that's what happened in the comics.

[Dr. Pepper]

 

Also would be really cool if, as Zoom, he was controlling King Shark and that's the largemouth bass he was referring to.

 

 

Har!  Didn't notice that.  

I'm still on the lookout for exchanged dopplegangers.  They really worked hard to make it seem like it could be Henry.  Except, he's still as syrupy fatherly as he's always been, just with possible Zoom-ish innuendo.  I just can't figure out when Henry would have been switched.

Because it's TV and the CW, Zoom has to be someone that will hurt, which means they need the face of someone they all know and love. Gotta have that daddy and/or relationship drama.  But I still would really like for it to be Jay.  

[trickster]

I really like the idea that Henry Allen is Zoom, especially the mirroring of the Cisco/Wells Father/Son Barry/Henry scene. 

Moreso, they really seemed to be pressing the point that Henry Allen was a scientist. First having him spout all this stuff about Barry being physically fine, then with the ''Dr Allen blah blah Dr Wells'', then finally with the ''like father, like son'' thing.

Even better given Joe's wish for a real son reflects that Henry Allen as Zoom (but essentially Earth-2 Henry Allen) would be Barry's father but-not.

Plus his whole speech about ''embracing'' people's hatred of him, which seems like a very villainous characteristic no matter how you spin it.

Also would be really cool if, as Zoom, he was controlling King Shark and that's the largemouth bass he was referring to.

 

But then, yeah that's probably reading way too much into it. One can only hope. </3

 

eta: Goddamn, I like Patty and I wish he'd just tell her he was Flash. Even if they don't stick together, it's so fucking dull in the meantime. 

Wait, isn't Henry Allen a doctor? He is fully qualified to comment on Barry's health. Also I would expect him to be a smart person. But yeah, like the idea of him (or his earth 2 version) being the Zoom.

[red snow]

Wait, isn't Henry Allen a doctor? He is fully qualified to comment on Barry's health. Also I would expect him to be a smart person. But yeah, like the idea of him (or his earth 2 version) being the Zoom.

He's a Dr but shouldn't really be a specialist on metahuman physiology - although he could have read up on his son's notes while camping

[Lord Hanna]

Well, yeah. That's my point - I'm not saying he's not qualified, I'm saying they really seem to be emphasising that he's a super smart guy, when it's completely irrelevant to the plot. Plus, it's hardly mentioned at all in previous episodes, although of course inconsistencies in this show don't prove anything other than it's questionable quality xD

 

 

 

Every news article/flashback of the night Barry's mom died, mentioned how his dad was a doctor. Obviously, doctors will know doctor stuff.

Having a doctor, who's son is injured, make some comments about his son's health, is not consistent? What? 

[trickster]

You're making the same assumption that trickster did, so evidently I wasn't clear enough. I didn't say it was inconsistent with the character - obviously if he's a doctor he's allowed to say smart things and it be fine. 

I did say that it was inconsistent in the context of the show to have Henry's scientist credentials be mentioned three + times in one episode. From a storytelling perspective, his comments on Barry's health serve no purpose since it's just reiterating everything Caitlyn already said and we already assumed. Then there's two other moments I remember, he's introduced as Dr Allen to Wells - completely inoffensive by itself obviously, and then also there's that random conversation before he leaves about Barry being a scientist like his father - which again serves no storytelling purpose unless Barry has to defeat a magical  chocolate and nougat bar next week; and that's where the parallel with Cisco/Reverse Flash- Son/Evil father science team comes in.

Anyway, as I said in both posts, it's almost certainly just reading too much into what is in all likelihood a non-intentional quirk of the script. But it is a quirk, intentional or not.  

Thanks for clearing that up. To be honest, I think you are reading too much into this. For me, his disappearance for a few episodes after his release from jail is the real inconsistency. Henry's behavior during the latest episode seemed quite normal to me.

[Dr. Pepper]

I get what you mean, Leap.  I think the fact that Harry and Cisco role played that scene where Dr. Wells killed Cisco not once but twice just made Henry's doctor-y, science-y stuff stand out all the more.  Really, the whole episode was very focused on father/son relationships.  Grodd/Wells, Cisco/Wells/Harry, Joe/Barry, Joe/BioSonHeYearnsFor.  It all just put every bit of Henry's dialogue and actions into the spotlight.  

[Lord Hanna]

You're making the same assumption that trickster did, so evidently I wasn't clear enough. I didn't say it was inconsistent with the character - obviously if he's a doctor he's allowed to say smart things and it be fine. 

I did say that it was inconsistent in the context of the show to have Henry's scientist credentials be mentioned three + times in one episode. From a storytelling perspective, his comments on Barry's health serve no purpose since it's just reiterating everything Caitlyn already said and we already assumed. Then there's two other moments I remember, he's introduced as Dr Allen to Wells - completely inoffensive by itself obviously, and then also there's that random conversation before he leaves about Barry being a scientist like his father - which again serves no storytelling purpose unless Barry has to defeat a magical  chocolate and nougat bar next week; and that's where the parallel with Cisco/Reverse Flash- Son/Evil father science team comes in.

Anyway, as I said in both posts, it's almost certainly just reading too much into what is in all likelihood a non-intentional quirk of the script. But it is a quirk, intentional or not.  

In that case i totally misunderstood what you were trying to say, my bad.  

[briantw]

Having just watched the latest episode, I don't really see what was out of place about Barry's dad.  He was a doctor, so of course he had to take a ton of science classes in school.  He doesn't seem to know anything he shouldn't, but he can naturally pick up on new concepts reasonably quickly because, you know, he's a smart guy.  I think we're just seeing a new aspect of his character that we didn't get to see last season because he spent the whole time in prison.

Also, I don't really see how that whole speech about watching all of his other family members give up on him in court could have been said by anyone except the real Henry Allen.  Given that we can probably assume that, on Earth 2, Henry's wife wasn't murdered by the Reverse Flash, the Earth 2 version wouldn't have those memories.  Further, seeing as Zoom just tried to kill Barry in the previous episode, does it really make sense that he would then show up a short time later in the guise of Barry's dad and give him a pep talk so that he can gain the confidence to get his powers back?  Zoom already proved he could destroy Barry and proved it to everyone.  Why help nurse him back to health just to prove it again when you could just snap his neck?

Sure, they could figure out loopholes to get around both of those facts, or just ignore them entirely, but I don't really see why anything the father said or did would be construed as suspicious.

[DaveSumm]

I'm confused, why does anyone have to be acting weird to be Zoom? Zoom doesn't have to kill his Earth 1 counterpart. He could be Earth 2 Henry Allen, and that episode we just saw featured Earth 1 Henry Allen. That's why I hope they don't drag the mystery out, because ultimately it only makes for a nice 'ahhhh' moment for the audience, and means nothing overall. We've seen wildly different persona's between E1 and E2 so it doesn't even inform us on the E1 character, whoever it turns out to be. It's just a face.

[briantw]

I'm confused, why does anyone have to be acting weird to be Zoom? Zoom doesn't have to kill his Earth 1 counterpart. He could be Earth 2 Henry Allen, and that episode we just saw featured Earth 1 Henry Allen. That's why I hope they don't drag the mystery out, because ultimately it only makes for a nice 'ahhhh' moment for the audience, and means nothing overall. We've seen wildly different persona's between E1 and E2 so it doesn't even inform us on the E1 character, whoever it turns out to be. It's just a face.

The thing is, they haven't really made it into a mystery on the show.  No one is asking, "Who is Zoom?" on a regular basis on the show.  It's only a mystery because we as viewers assume that Zoom will be a member of the cast's Earth 2 counterpart.  

[The Anti-Targ]

So, Planet of the Apes is Earth 2 then?

[Martini Sigil]

In regards to Henry Allen being Zoom:

I get that this is a comic book show... but with two entire planets full of people, this would make the second Earth-2 evil Meta Human to come to our world, and who also happen to be exact Earth-one doppelgangers with members of the cast...  I get why E-2 Wells is here... but the odds of Barry's E-2 Dad, and the E-2 Newspaper chick being Zoom's minions are kind of a stretch, even for this show...

That said, I still have a shit ton of fun watching this show

[Lord Hanna]

So, Planet of the Apes is Earth 2 then?

Gorilla city!! Well, more like gorilla jungle.

I'm hoping and praying it's full of intelligent apes just waiting to be conquered by Grodd so he can build his army.