Jaxom 1974 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 So, Planet of the Apes is Earth 2 then?They didn't say that was actually Earth 2 though. Wells said something about studying the riffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 In regards to Henry Allen being Zoom:I get that this is a comic book show... but with two entire planets full of people, this would make the second Earth-2 evil Meta Human to come to our world, and who also happen to be exact Earth-one doppelgangers with members of the cast... I get why E-2 Wells is here... but the odds of Barry's E-2 Dad, and the E-2 Newspaper chick being Zoom's minions are kind of a stretch, even for this show...That said, I still have a shit ton of fun watching this showI wanna know who E1's counterpart for Sharkman is. Also I kinda wish E2 was doing mind control testing on a hamster that got blasted by the Star labs asploshun. Having a super evil genuis hamster running amok on E2 would be fun. It could just sit all innocent-like in its cage and mind control the hell out of everyone and they'd never suspect the hamster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I wanna know who E1's counterpart for Sharkman is. Also I kinda wish E2 was doing mind control testing on a hamster that got blasted by the Star labs asploshun. Having a super evil genuis hamster running amok on E2 would be fun. It could just sit all innocent-like in its cage and mind control the hell out of everyone and they'd never suspect the hamster.'Not God. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ok, I always had a suspicion that Henry was going to end up being Zoom, so maybe it colors my perception of events, but wow did that scene about losing the faith of family and friends seem like the kind of thing a villain would say. Love seeing Grodd, but I kind of hate how they've taken yet another villain out of the equation. Superhero shows do that far too often for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanna Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ok, I always had a suspicion that Henry was going to end up being Zoom, so maybe it colors my perception of events, but wow did that scene about losing the faith of family and friends seem like the kind of thing a villain would say. Love seeing Grodd, but I kind of hate how they've taken yet another villain out of the equation. Superhero shows do that far too often for my liking.I think they are just keeping him for the big bad guy next season. He's one of the Flashes main villains, he will be a season-long villain when he becomes smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Hawkman and Hawkgirl are great additions to the mythology. Savage seems like he'll be a fun villain. And, all this crossover episode did was underline how much more the Flash cast overshadows everyone on Arrow. I did chuckle when they made the League appearing out of nowhere a gag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Hawkman and Hawkgirl are great additions to the mythology. Savage seems like he'll be a fun villain. And, all this crossover episode did was underline how much more the Flash cast overshadows everyone on Arrow. I did chuckle when they made the League appearing out of nowhere a gag.Barry's comment about how the League guys enter a room was the best part. I'm not yet sold on the two new superheroes, but that will be up to Legends of Tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The premise of constant reincarnation is fun thing to play with, and it can play especially well on Legends...I wonder if Hawkman and girl will routinely encounter their past selves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Man, I'm such a sucker for cross over episodes. There was so much to love about this episode, Vandal Savage was cool, I enjoyed the interactions between the various members of team arrow, and anything with Wells is gold as far as I'm concerned. I think the best part, though, was when Hawkman pushed her off the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 this episode came at exactly the right time for me. I've been burned out by the volume of superhero shows of late (there's at least 6) and while bingeing on Jessica Jones had ditched arrow. Then there's this episode and it reminded me of how fun DC heroes can be when they remember to have fun. The best scenes have already been mentioned with the roof scene and Merlin "appearing" but it was generally really good with a lot of nice character moments eg Speedy on "So, was I supposed to know we know the Flash".The writers clearly made a point of using it to get people who only watch one show interested in the other. Arrow could have done with an episode like this earlier to get fatigued viewers up to speed. It does make me wonder if the Arrow team just calls in most episodes or whether there are people on the Flash team who are just better (seems to be the case when viewing both shows). If I was a producer I'd try and convince one of the Flash staff to do a stint over on Arrow. Maybe a bit of cross=pollination would help? The crossover suggests it.Minor niggles were my general fear of comic tv/film getting closer to want ultimately destroyed comics with the sensation that this is ultimately set up for another show. This one was still well-executed but this season's arrow has been a slave to setting up Legends and I do worry makers of the show will start to see ratings increase with cross=pvers and simply do them all the time - cannabalising the existing fan base while becoming inacessible to all but the most devoted of fans. TV doesn't have to repeat the mistake of marvel/DC comics though - they can see the damage it ultimately caused.Other small complaint was "why wasn't Darkh interested in Savage and super magic weapon". I'd have thought that would be in his area of expertise too. I'd have liked a cross-pver between them but maybe the writers were unwilling as it would be hard to make one badass without the other looking weak. They don't look like people who compromise.Pleased they kept the regular Flash plot moving forward. Plenty more ammunition for are favourite theory of "Jay is Zoom" because I'm pretty sure (based on liquid colours) that Jay never took the nitro serum. Wells was playing an extreme bluff if that's the case but he now knows Garrick had the speed force all along. Whether the show uses this as evidence for him being Zoom or simply plays on the continuing "you have to believe in yourself" remains to be seen. It could still turn out to be the best plotted alternative plot a show has accidentally created if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I can't stop seeing Jay as Zoom now. His insistence that they not give Barry the serum was super suspicions. Because, um, why? Jay knows that Barry is for sure going to fight Zoom, why exactly would he be against Barry having all the advantages possible? So much more going on than simple cowardice. Fun episode. I didn't even notice Laurel was missing and groaned hard when it was revealed she's in Central City which means we'll have to probably put up with her tomorrow. Ugh. Hopefully at least Iris will be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I can't stop seeing Jay as Zoom now. His insistence that they not give Barry the serum was super suspicions. Because, um, why? Jay knows that Barry is for sure going to fight Zoom, why exactly would he be against Barry having all the advantages possible? So much more going on than simple cowardice. Fun episode. I didn't even notice Laurel was missing and groaned hard when it was revealed she's in Central City which means we'll have to probably put up with her tomorrow. Ugh. Hopefully at least Iris will be around. It seemed to me that Wells tried 5 times to give Jay a serum that didn't work and lead to some kind of side effects. Given those past experiences, he didn't want Wells messing with Barry on something that was dangerous and unstable. If Jay was Zoom, not sure how he'd know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It seemed to me that Wells tried 5 times to give Jay a serum that didn't work and lead to some kind of side effects. Given those past experiences, he didn't want Wells messing with Barry on something that was dangerous and unstable. If Jay was Zoom, not sure how he'd know that.I need to watch the scene again but on the first viewing there is a very lingering shot on the "nitro fluid" in one of those TV visual language quirks that to me suggested Wells was up to something. He me just have tricked Jay into testing the serum but it felt to me like Wells was testing whether Jay was full of shit. But my interpretation is probably clouded by liking the "Jay as Zoom" theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The Velocity is supposed to play a role later on, I was reading...just not version 6...It's use last night never gave me the impression that Jay could be Zoom. I took it that the previous iterations did something bad...Last night was fun. Hokey in some ways. But fun. I have higher hopes for hour two on Arrow, despite Laurel being there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It seemed to me that Wells tried 5 times to give Jay a serum that didn't work and lead to some kind of side effects. Given those past experiences, he didn't want Wells messing with Barry on something that was dangerous and unstable. If Jay was Zoom, not sure how he'd know that.I don't really get what you mean with the bolded. If Jay is Zoom, then he'd know that because he's Jay... The major difference here is that the serum worked. Catelyn was involved and her expertise in bio-somethingorother was what led the serum to work. If Jay is Zoom, Zoom has a pretty vested interest in keeping Barry from becoming faster and more powerful than himself.I still assume that Zoom is most likely to be someone who is a gut punch to the feels, like Henry. But since the Jay theory was brought up, I find it difficult not to notice all the "Jay is Zoom" clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I don't really get what you mean with the bolded. If Jay is Zoom, then he'd know that because he's Jay... The major difference here is that the serum worked. Catelyn was involved and her expertise in bio-somethingorother was what led the serum to work. If Jay is Zoom, Zoom has a pretty vested interest in keeping Barry from becoming faster and more powerful than himself.I still assume that Zoom is most likely to be someone who is a gut punch to the feels, like Henry. But since the Jay theory was brought up, I find it difficult not to notice all the "Jay is Zoom" clues. Sorry, I was thinking the idea that Zoom replaced Jay ala Wells/Reverse-Flash. But you're right, that doesn't work. Still, I have a hard time thinking Jay pretends to be The Flash and Zoom on Earth 2. That must be an awfully confusing situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The Velocity is supposed to play a role later on, I was reading...just not version 6...It's use last night never gave me the impression that Jay could be Zoom. I took it that the previous iterations did something bad...Last night was fun. Hokey in some ways. But fun. I have higher hopes for hour two on Arrow, despite Laurel being there...Ah, ok that would fit. There was definitely something going on with the direction in that final scene. Strange route to take having a performance enhancing drug to help a hero run faster. Great role-model. Could come in handy for creating other speedsters though.That's a shame, Laurel being in the next episode. Wise of the Flash crew to "not have room" for her in their part of the crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Could come in handy for creating other speedsters though. Jesse Quick perhaps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Unless Wells knew that Patty was gonna walk in the room and shoot him, I doubt Wells tricking Jay into taking the velocity serum was what he had in mind. If Garrick is indeed Zoom, then Wells may have good reason to suspect something, but I thought the lingering shot of Wells looking at the serum meant that he was gonna give the serum to Barry no matter what Jay says. Anyway, if Z is Jay, I guess that would make him more interesting 'cause he's been a bit of a dud as a character lately; though, I prefer Zoom to be Eddie 'cause that might take care of that elephant of a pothole at the end of season 1. But preferences aside, I'm leaning towards E-2 Henry.This show has been up and down for me but last night was a blast -though still not terribly interested in LoT- Vandal Savage is an awesome villain to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The writers clearly made a point of using it to get people who only watch one show interested in the other. Arrow could have done with an episode like this earlier to get fatigued viewers up to speed. It does make me wonder if the Arrow team just calls in most episodes or whether there are people on the Flash team who are just better (seems to be the case when viewing both shows). If I was a producer I'd try and convince one of the Flash staff to do a stint over on Arrow. Maybe a bit of cross=pollination would help? The crossover suggests it. My son only watches Flash and is not interested in Arrow, so when he asked about "who's that in the red outfit?" I looked at him weird until I realised the last time he'd seen anything of Arrow Roy was still Arsenal.So, the fastest Flash has been clocked is a bit over mach 2. That's kinda slow. He's not even faster than the fastest fighter jets, or some classes of missile. Probably some bullets fly faster than that. What use is he if he isn't the fastest non-electromagnetic thing on the planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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