Martini Sigil Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The thing about only Earth-2 Flash losing his powers is a great point... every other meta from E-2 still has their powers... I guess we'll see if the real Jay G shows up...Not that CW shows are concerned with plots that make sense... but if this was the case, why didn't Jay/Zoom just ice Barry himself earlier?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The thing about only Earth-2 Flash losing his powers is a great point... every other meta from E-2 still has their powers... I guess we'll see if the real Jay G shows up...Not that CW shows are concerned with plots that make sense... but if this was the case, why didn't Jay/Zoom just ice Barry himself earlier?....Yeah, I don't really understand why Zoom keeps sending other metas to kill Earth-1 Flash when he's obviously more than capable of doing it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Yeah, I don't really understand why Zoom keeps sending other metas to kill Earth-1 Flash when he's obviously more than capable of doing it himself. It's a villain thing. We should be impressed they've had a showdown this early in the show to be honest.The thing about only Earth-2 Flash losing his powers is a great point... every other meta from E-2 still has their powers... I guess we'll see if the real Jay G shows up...Not that CW shows are concerned with plots that make sense... but if this was the case, why didn't Jay/Zoom just ice Barry himself earlier?....That and maybe he wanted to get a feel for how powerful his enemy was before facing him. Training him to use a particular tactic would give Zoon an edge.The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. It would almost be a shame if the writers haven't even considered this as an option. It would also give us some CW "drama" when Caitlin realises her new squeeze is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Maybe Zoom realizes he can beat every single meta human due to his speed and is just tired of not having a worthy opponent. Barry is really powerful but he's also super dumb with how he uses his powers. He does the 'crossing streams' thing with captain cold and heat wave instead of just speeding in and taking their guns, for example. Perhaps Zoom's whole goal is to train up another speedster so he has a real challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Didn't Caitlyn do a full medical inspection of Jay and confirm he'd lost his speed? I forget the exact line, but I thought she had some sort of confirmation other than Jay just saying he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I mentioned upthread that being a potential problem with the theory, though we don't really know that Barry can't manipulate his vitals (or can he and I forgot?) so if Jay can do it then it wouldn't be a plot hole. I just went back to rewatch that scene and Cait mentions that Jay's vitals are extraordinarily slow and that he has regenerative capabilities, but that she didn't see evidence of the speed force. He did pass a lie detector test, but Caitlyn was only trying to determine if he was a speedster who came through a breach from a different world not if he was a villain named Zoom.So, still possible. Personally I'd prefer it to be the doppleganger of someone they know, like Eddie, Joe, Henry or even Barry. But it's getting harder to ignore how suspicious Jay is looking. I can't unsee it since brian brought it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Didn't Caitlyn do a full medical inspection of Jay and confirm he'd lost his speed? I forget the exact line, but I thought she had some sort of confirmation other than Jay just saying he had.If he can control the speed force he can probably use it to slow himself down. HAving the healing suggests he actually has it in a buried form whether he's zoom or not.If the actor playing Thawne wasn't in another show (although only a recurring role) I'd still think Eddie was most likely. The fun thing is that it could be interesting whoever it is unless it's a completely new character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 One more thing people seem to forget, we don't really know much about Zoom's powers.Caitlyn might have been looking for Jay's powers by comparing them to Barry's, but in the comic the second Zoom's power wasn't super-speed: his power was to manipulate time relative to himself. His powers weren't tied to the Speed Force at all.What if the TV show version of Zoom has that exact power, but he's tricking his enemies into believing otherwise?I still don't think it's Jay though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 One more thing people seem to forget, we don't really know much about Zoom's powers.Caitlyn might have been looking for Jay's powers by comparing them to Barry's, but in the comic the second Zoom's power wasn't super-speed: his power was to manipulate time relative to himself. His powers weren't tied to the Speed Force at all.What if the TV show version of Zoom has that exact power, but he's tricking his enemies into believing otherwise?I still don't think it's Jay though.If he can do that you also realise he could be carrying out plans in hyper time too.I find it funny how the reason a lot of us think it won't be Jay is largely because the show hasn't shown such foresight in its writing before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 If he can do that you also realise he could be carrying out plans in hyper time too.I find it funny how the reason a lot of us think it won't be Jay is largely because the show hasn't shown such foresight in its writing before lol, yeah this exactly. I can't even be sure the writers realize that Jay is the only meta who allegedly lost his powers coming through the breach. But I am sort of excited to see what happens tonight. Not sure we can count on Zoom being unmasked but maybe more clues at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leofric Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought Jay said Zoom had taken his speed from him. I didn't have the impression that passing through the breach is what caused him to lose his speed, more he escaped through breach after losing his power. When Zoom had Flash down at the end and was kind of sticking his hand into his side I thought he was going to take Barry's powers as well until Cisco hit him with the dart and distracted him.I would like the twist if it turns out Jay is pretending to be a coward and is really Zoom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought Jay said Zoom had taken his speed from him. I didn't have the impression that passing through the breach is what caused him to lose his speed, more he escaped through breach after losing his power. When Zoom had Flash down at the end and was kind of sticking his hand into his side I thought he was going to take Barry's powers as well until Cisco hit him with the dart and distracted him.I would like the twist if it turns out Jay is pretending to be a coward and is really Zoom.Yea, that's what I remembered as well.Think if that's true it'd be too much of a retread of Harrison Wells from season 1. Could you imagine Barry's trust issues if Jay turned out to be Zoom after Wells turned out to be Reverse-Flash? Good lord help us, we'd end up down the Arrow hole of relentless brooding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 we all know that there *is* a Jay Garrick ... we're just not sure that this dude is him... The comics say that Zoom is someone else... So this Jay would then probably be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 we all know that there *is* a Jay Garrick ... we're just not sure that this dude is him... The comics say that Zoom is someone else... So this Jay would then probably be him.Well, Earth 2 Wells recognized him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well, Earth 2 Wells recognized him.Ah.... right... so much for my stupid observation then....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well, Earth 2 Wells recognized him.And we also saw that scene on Earth 2 where their Flash confronted Wells in public at a press conference.But that doesn't mean that Earth 2 Flash couldn't also be Zoom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 And we also saw that scene on Earth 2 where their Flash confronted Wells in public at a press conference.But that doesn't mean that Earth 2 Flash couldn't also be Zoom.That was a recollection from Jay I thought so could have been an unreliable narrator. It's more to Martini's point that Jay could be an impostor of the real Jay but Earth 2 knows him so that's not likely. He could still be Zoom though I don't think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought Jay said Zoom had taken his speed from him. I didn't have the impression that passing through the breach is what caused him to lose his speed, more he escaped through breach after losing his power. When Zoom had Flash down at the end and was kind of sticking his hand into his side I thought he was going to take Barry's powers as well until Cisco hit him with the dart and distracted him.I would like the twist if it turns out Jay is pretending to be a coward and is really Zoom. That's what I remembered as well but when I went back to rewatch Jay's first meeting with Team Flash, he said that he lost his powers somehow when he ended up on Earth 1. As it relates to Jay's speed, I can't immediately recall what happened between Jay telling his intro story to him definitively stating that Zoom stole his speed. I thought the sticking hand into cavity was similar to Wells' timeline 1 Cisco murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 That's what I remembered as well but when I went back to rewatch Jay's first meeting with Team Flash, he said that he lost his powers somehow when he ended up on Earth 1. As it relates to Jay's speed, I can't immediately recall what happened between Jay telling his intro story to him definitively stating that Zoom stole his speed. I thought the sticking hand into cavity was similar to Wells' timeline 1 Cisco murder. I thought it was later that Jay said Zoom stole them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindly Old Man Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Another decent episode but I'm still hung up on Henry Allen. I guess there's nothing like spending your son's whole life in prison to make you want to go on camping and fishing trips by yourself as soon as you get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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