AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yes and he doesn't look in best shape at Hardhome so even if he makes it back will he really be capable of going south? He spends the whole of A Dance with Dragons being tempted by going south, not in the show. Its even rendered 'Love is the Death of Duty' moot, and they pushed that twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Count me among those who think the Pink Letter isn't going to be in the show. The writers' restructuring of the Winterfell/Northern plotline has completely removed Jon's involvement in it, and his downfall arc is exclusively focused on his dealings with the Wildlings. Agreed. He has no reason to write it. Even if he does write a letter, it wouldn't be anything like the letter in the books. I really hope he doesn't write it - i don't want to think he wrote it in the books because Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakin1013 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 When Ramsay raped Sansa, I knew with certainty that Jon was not going to die. Clearly, many people already think that, and there are many theories about how Jon will live [or sort-of live or undead live or warg-live]. Personally, I have hoped all along that Jon would not die. But it was like something clicked about Sansa's storyline and I became certain about Jon living. I could argue it has to do with the geographic closeness of the two characters, or I could argue that Jon would want to save his sister (either one) from such as thing as Ramsay. A realist or cynic might argue that plot armor all but guarantees Jon's life. But in the moment of the rape, I thought about the ultimate betrayal by Littlefinger to Sansa, leaving her in a situation of great horror, and of Jon by his men, stabbing him and leaving him for dead. It seemed mirrored to me and it provides for us a situation where we will be watching how both characters return to themselves after a great harm is done to them. Much of the Jon predictions focus on Mel or Shireen or Val or even Arya. I for one never thought of Sansa. Now I wonder.... Note: I am not suggesting a romance of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Jansa? Really? I don't see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 [...] I just hope for the love of god no romance there. :agree: This won't happen, but I would find it kind of interesting and poetic if Ramsay rides out and decides to step into the woods to relieve himself, only to be surrounded by Ghost, Summer, and Nymeria. Game over. A perfect use for Chekov's wolf pack. *sighs wistfully* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Agreed. He has no reason to write it. Even if he does write a letter, it wouldn't be anything like the letter in the books. I really hope he doesn't write it - i don't want to think he wrote it in the books because Stannis. Now, just to be fair and present the counter to my own argument: "he has no reason to [do X]" is a questionable reason to discount anything on this show, as the writers have no problem having characters do the same thing they did in the book without any of the context or motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Now, just to be fair and present the counter to my own argument: "he has no reason to [do X]" is a questionable reason to discount anything on this show, as the writers have no problem having characters do the same thing they did in the book without any of the context or motivation.LOL very true indeed!! In fact, that seems to be a more frequent "reason" than any real reasonable motivation this season. I'm still just not sure how it would work though. What exactly could it say that would be similar enough to provoke Jon's response like in the books?I'm also probably being more negative to it than is reasonable because I don't want Stannis to actually be dead in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yela Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Jansa? Really? I don't see it I think people are just discussing whether Jon will have enough feelings for Sansa(as a sibling) to go ride to WF for her. But still, isn't Jon technically Sansa's cousin, not half-brother? If Joanna and Tywin(cousins) can happen they can too. But I don't see that happening aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 No way he's gonna be stabbed there.Olly will do it and it's pretty much 100% certain. Ghost is gonna eat that little kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ghost is gonna eat that little kid.YES PLEASE. He is supposed to be up to something big this next episode... One can dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 So you imply the original Arya/Tyrion/Jon triangle converts to Sansa/Tyrion/Jon. Arya & Tyrion have zero connection so far. It definitely looks that way, in the show, Sansa is very close to where Jon is now and there are regular mentions of Tyrion in Sansas POV chapters. If Sansa replaces Jeyne, she could even reach the Wall this season itself. Let us see how it goes. IMO, Tyrion will end up as king so maybe Sansa could still be a queen. Jon/Arya stay in the north with Arya ruling WF. who said anything about tyrion being king ? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklover Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 YES PLEASE. He is supposed to be up to something big this next episode... One can dream... That kid didn't do anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 who said anything about tyrion being king ? :) I know, Tyrion as king of anything is a huge joke. People want the Sansa / Tyrion thing to happen soooo bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornCornSnow Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Jansa? Really? I don't see it Jon loves redheads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm still just not sure how it would work though. What exactly could it say that would be similar enough to provoke Jon's response like in the books? I expect that, if there is a Pink Letter, it will just say that he beat Stannis and also, ha ha ha, I raped your sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverscream Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Jon loves redheadsI didn't know Val was a redhead. Must have missed that part. He seems to be fond of her blonde hair in the books regardless of any so called preference.(I also find it funny that Ygritte and Sansa both having different shades of red hair apparently trumps the multiple times he compares Ygritte to Arya, but ymmv)Anyway, I still stick with the people who think the Pink Letter probably won't be in the show, or at least in the same vein as in the books. Since we know Ramsay is leaving Winterfell to go fight Stannis and Sansa escaping with Theon better suits their story's climax, there's no way he'd know it happened or expect Jon had anything to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornCornSnow Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I didn't know Val was a redhead. Must have missed that part. He seems to be fond of her blonde hair in the books regardless of any so called preference.(I also find it funny that Ygritte and Sansa both having different shades of red hair apparently trumps the multiple times he compares Ygritte to Arya, but ymmv)Anyway, I still stick with the people who think the Pink Letter probably won't be in the show, or at least in the same vein as in the books. Since we know Ramsay is leaving Winterfell to go fight Stannis and Sansa escaping with Theon better suits their story's climax, there's no way he'd know it happened or expect Jon had anything to do with it.Who is Val? Another throwaway who is going to die in tWoW? Or maybe they combined her with Tormund. (/sarc) Ygritte, Mel, Sansa. Three is a magic number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogprivilege Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I honestly just feel like people try to discount Jon and Sansa's relationship having any future or themeatic significance because apparently Jon can't have any connection with Arya or Sansa without undermining the other, no matter how different they are. I love the Arya and Jon relationship and think it will be important some capacity later on, but I also agree with the essay's general point (yes, I agree there are some errors in it and quotes pulled out of context) that there has been a clear thematic contrast set up between Jon and Sansa that suggests their relationship will take on some significance as well. I think both the books and the show have effectively set up the Stark family as a unit. Most of them dont even talk to each other, but the family is the most beloved in the series. I think Jon going to rescue any of his siblings from being at Winterfell with the people who killed Robb would carry a lot of impact. ...So I think the Pink Letter is in. Truly I think all that needs to be set up there is Jon hating the Boltons for betraying the Starks and killing Robb and silently hoping Stannis wins. Check and check. Like they've gone out of the way to establish Jon's inner conflict over his hatred of the Boltons and his duty to the NW. No one's gonna see him get pissed at the Pink letter and think "why does he all of a sudden care about Sansa??". All that stuff with Alys Karstark and Mance isn't really necessary imo. On the show, while not actively participating, he is clearly emotionally invested and conflicted over the Northern stuff, which is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clawson24 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Why do people think the pink letter is scrapped? It is 100% in. Ramsay will write it in front of Sansa to further torment her just like Joffrey used to. Jon returns from Hardhome with the wildlings, finds the letter and leaves the wall to rescue Sansa, gets stabbed. There is no other reason for him to leave the wall. It absolutely has to be in. And he will definitely be stabbed by Olly at the Wall. Even a complete idiot can see that coming. The only question is if Sansa stays in WF or manages to reach the wall to find Jon. Either way a Stark reunion could feasibly happen. The Pink Letter would have to be drastically changed for the show (at least if we are to actually see Ramsay writing it). No Mance. No Spearwives. No reason to believe that Theon would be with Jon. No Mance's son. No Val. What would the letter even say? Return Sansa to me? How could it say that if Sansa's watching him write it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 OP:In GRRM original outline there is a setup between Jon, and Arya marrying, in the WOIAF Ned's father married his first cousin and so have others in the Stark line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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