Careerchat

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

I have a question that I need help with. 

Background:

I have a question that I need help with. 

Background:

I am currently working as a contractor at a Big Bank where I have worked (in different departments) before. I love what I'm doing and I love my team. They are truly awesome. The job pays "enough" but it is a temp position and to secure my finances, I need a permanent position

Situation:

Last week I had a job offer that, at the time I applied, I really wanted (job1). The mid-point pay on this job is almost the amount I currently make and I made it clear in my interview with HR that I needed to stay in the same ballpark. I wasn't too concerned  about that at the time.  The job is a step down career procession wise, but I was ok with that, as I really need a permanent job.

While going through the interview process a position on my team became available (job2) (a person retiring) and my boss made it clear to me that he wants to hire me for this position.

 

Anyway, I got the offer for job1 and it was so low that it made me cry.  Not just a little bit of tears, but I was damn near sobbing.

I learned that Job2 pays a hell of a lot more than I make currently.

Because of communication delays with HR, it took until Friday before I declined the position.

Now the next person they called only has 1 week notice since they want the new person to start the 18th.

I suspect there are bad feelings about this and my team works with the team from job1. If I get job2, I will have frequent contact with them, and I want it to be amicable.

My general nature is to apologize for things, I could almost be Canadian  

I have written an e-mail to the manager from job1, thanking him for the offer, and explained about the opportunity with job2, apologized for not accepting the offer and the delay it caused. I did not put in all the stuff about difficulty in communicating with HR.

My question is this: Should I send the e-mail?

.

Anyway, finally getting to the point, I suspect there are bad feelings about this and my team works with the team from job1. If I get job2 I want, I will have frequent contact with them, and I want it to be amicable.

My general nature is to apologize for things, I could almost be Canadian  

I have written an e-mail to the manager from job1, thanking him for the offer, and explained about the opportunity with job2, apologized for not accepting the offer and the delay it caused. I did not put in all the stuff about difficulty in communicating with HR, just that it was her suggestion to ask for more money.

My question is this: Should I send the e-mail?

[Iskaral Pust]

Lany - that description was at least 3x too long.   I assume you are stressed about this  

CALL the manager for job1 to thank him and explain your situation.  You should have done that at the start.  HR are useless.  Make it clear that job2 only became available after you interviewed with him and that you have tried to be open and frank with HR.  Job2 is in your current team and pays better -- no-one can be upset that you are going for it.  CALL the manager for job2 and let him/her also know about the situation and how you are declining job1 in order to pursue job2. 

BTW, I would assume "declined" means that you declined an offer, which is different for a recruiter than you withdrawing.  Don't sound paranoid about that.

No bridges burned and you stuck to your guns on what you are worth.  Win, win. 

Good luck. 

[HairBearHero]

On 09/04/2016 at 0:12 PM, Inigima said:

Wait, no. You should be a rum smuggler.

There's no margin in rum and the Caribbean coast guards don't fuck around. Maybe whisky...

@Zelt, Isk - thanks for the advice. As I said, appreciate that the post isn't terribly specific, but I'm just a bit lost at the moment. Will figure something out.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

3 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Lany - that description was at least 3x too long.   I assume you are stressed about this  

CALL the manager for job1 to thank him and explain your situation.  You should have done that at the start.  HR are useless.  Make it clear that job2 only became available after you interviewed with him and that you have tried to be open and frank with HR.  Job2 is in your current team and pays better -- no-one can be upset that you are going for it.  CALL the manager for job2 and let him/her also know about the situation and how you are declining job1 in order to pursue job2. 

BTW, I would assume "declined" means that you declined an offer, which is different for a recruiter than you withdrawing.  Don't sound paranoid about that.

No bridges burned and you stuck to your guns on what you are worth.  Win, win. 

Good luck. 

Thank you!  I feel much better about it. 

 

 yes, totally stressed.  I knew it was too long and I was way over sharing.  I have been a wreck for the past week. I'll probably stay this way until I hear about job2.  The good part is it is my team and I do most of the work already, so I should have an advantage. And my boss wants to hire me, he just needs to justify that I am the right choice compared to the others who apply.

(I should edit it to the important parts  )

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

I hate looking for a job while I have a job.  It's pretty much a second job that doesn't pay.  HATE.

[Kalbear]

Quote

But this really should not be all that hard for you to work out.  It's not a question of deep soul-searching and finding yourself but of putting yourself in the right environment. You have to ask what do you like and what are you good at?  You could find a match for those in many different industries by choosing the right role.  The specific role and environment are more important than the specific industry.

Yep. And more importantly, figure out what kind of thing you like first hand. Do you like working with others on projects and things or do you like working alone? Interacting with customers or avoiding them? Do you like being more creative or more practical? Do you care about individual accolades for success and detriments for failure, or do you want to be more of a team part? Do you like set hours or flex hours? 

And of these, what are more important to you and less important to you? 

 

As an example for me - and it's taken me 15 years to figure this stuff out - I care a lot about getting both individual recognition and team recognition, but I care more about the people on my team recognizing and appreciating my efforts. I work best in a group in both a coordinating and heavy lifting situation, and while I can work on my own I don't enjoy it much. I like open office spaces when we are all working on similar things. I want to work with people who enjoy what they're doing and are eager to work on it more. I like customer interaction but only so much; i don't want to work with customers all the time but do want direct customer interaction and feedback. I need some flex time but only some. I want to work on technical stuff, but the specifics of what they are don't worry me that much. I don't enjoy being a manager but do enjoy being a leader of small projects. And I do enjoy giving presentations and talks on occasion. 

Knowing this, I can know what I can look for and like, and where I"ll be more likely to be successful. 

 

 

[Datepalm]

Good luck Lany...being direct and irrational guilt and nerves free with HR and managers and whatever is soooo much easier said than done, no matter how reasonably you know yourself to be.

 

Well, the project i'm currently working on is wrapping up...if you can call the dissolution of the client institutions due to quasi-legal attempt at a power grab due to upcoming elections "wrapping up." At least everything is postponed for months if not indefinitely. (At least until May, but my guess is nothing will really happen until after November at a minimum.)

So I'm basically getting fired, since they want to minimize the company and, well, they like me least (and my project sucks the most and is least profitable. But its definitely also personal.) They could have kept me on until something new came along, doing piecemeal office work on random stuff - I've been scrounging up how to mitigate the social consequences of a parking reform in a small town in Romania this week (and was just told flat out to lie about my qualifications on a call with an major global lending institution, which I am not comfortable with,) and what I was doing before was figuring out bus routes in Congo. Totally makes sense, I know, - but, yeah, no. It is is probably for the best, rationally - I don't want to be doing whatever last-minute stopgapping comes up and fixing bad grammar on reports for another year and a half...but I don't want to be fired either!

They have tentatively offered to keep me on for about 2-3 months, to see if something changes, but absolutely not as a trial period or anything like that - just in case they suddenly need someone to go to South Sudan after all. I know I should take them up on it, assuming they don't call tommorow and tell me, oops, no, clear out your desk next week. (This 'process of mutual decision making' has been rolling along for like three weeks now and I still don't know their final call.)(Like I have a desk.) But it's become such an annoying and infuriating work environment I honestly don't know if it's worth it.

If I do stay through the end of the semester, that just about makes it a year there, which I need with my increasingly someone-took-a-chainsaw-to-this CV, and it puts me in a good place to go do some (hopefully professionally substantial, not to mention enjoyable) internship/research/volunteering/travel over the summer, and then I have like three months to get in PhD applications when I get back, (which is terrifying in and of itself just to think of, if only because I suspect Im going to fail,) not to mention classes, getting on with my thesis, finding some other work, etc. So it's not like I'm not going to be busy.

So there's every reasons to stick out the three months (whereas If I start looking for something else now it's going to be very unlikely I can just take off for a 4-month break right after I start...and I really want to get out of here as much as I can right now,) and let it the fuck go and move on afterwards...but, ugh. I was so close last week to just leaving my laptop somewhere inaccessible and just...bye. Figure it out yourselves. I am not answering the phone or writing any emails because I am going to hitchhike to Azerbaijan. Bite me. I know it's immature, but I'm really angry and really hurt by the whole process, and I don't want to keep getting jerked around by this company. I don't know if the sensible part of it won't be outwieghed by how much of a self-loathing wreck I'll be in another three months of this. (My dynamic with my boss is complicated and patronizing and pretty difficult.)

I will stick it out, I suppose, but I do think I'm just more intrisincally cut out to be a rambling hobo with no reasonable goals who's resume is a craftwork of an amusingly random variety of odd juxtapositions, more than, like, a career and stuff. (Look! I've been trying for like a year! Clearly, I'm failing.) I'd go do that, except I've done enough of it to know random hoboing doesn't have much in the way of satisfaction to it really. Damn it.

/rant. Sorry about that.

[Xray the Enforcer]

As someone who looks at a lot of CVs and has done a lot of hiring over the years, to me those 2-3 months are not going to make your CV look any less fractured. As such, you're not going to gain any benefit from staying except for some steady income. Seriously, I'd GTFO now unless on that path lies financial devastation.

[Datepalm]

It's more about the timing than the longevity or even finances per se. It would be nice not to be scrounging about and worried about money for the rest of the school year (especially since I'm planning to be unemployed over the summer,) whereas if I quit, I won't resist the urge to start working again in the first thing that comes along, which is probably going to be frustrating and stifling in its own right. In a way I've got the next 6 months pretty much figured out if I stay and nothing to really stress about for a while, except that I kind of hate my job now, which I figure is a sufficiently standard state of affairs to be worth putting up with for a few months...I think.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 7:04 AM, Datepalm said:

Good luck Lany...being direct and irrational guilt and nerves free with HR and managers and whatever is soooo much easier said than done, no matter how reasonably you know yourself to be.

 

 

Thank you. I'm in a "being direct" kind of mood I guess.  I just talked to my boss, said casually "I hear there is a lot of interest in the position"

He has received 42 resumes, including mine   So I asked him if he liked the new format of my resume. It was the right question to ask.

Yes, he does, very much, it is one of the top two resumes, and that I have nothing to worry about and he hopes no one else ever sees my resume.   I know I shouldn't get too excited, but I am. 

I am also buying my neighbor who helped me out with the resume a 6pk of her favorite beer.  She was so spot on about the format and content and that I had been selling myself way too short. No matter what happens with this job, the resume is so much improved, a 6pk is a cheap price.

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:53 AM, Datepalm said:

It's more about the timing than the longevity or even finances per se. It would be nice not to be scrounging about and worried about money for the rest of the school year (especially since I'm planning to be unemployed over the summer,) whereas if I quit, I won't resist the urge to start working again in the first thing that comes along, which is probably going to be frustrating and stifling in its own right. In a way I've got the next 6 months pretty much figured out if I stay and nothing to really stress about for a while, except that I kind of hate my job now, which I figure is a sufficiently standard state of affairs to be worth putting up with for a few months...I think.

Good luck which ever way you decide.   

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

So that law enforcement job I took lasted two days. I had a feeling that I wasn't going to be able to do it but I couldn't imagine that it would only take two days but it did. 

I'm thinking about going to EMT school but I think I need someone to talk me out of it.  

[Iskaral Pust]

Ouch.  Sorry AMP.  Did you have to spend a long time in training before lasting only 2 days?  

I think we have some current and former EMTs on the board (PeterBound?).  Maybe ask them about their experience. 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

3 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Ouch.  Sorry AMP.  Did you have to spend a long time in training before lasting only 2 days?  

I think we have some current and former EMTs on the board (PeterBound?).  Maybe ask them about their experience. 

No, I has a terrible panic attack during training and wound up being hospitalized for two days. 

[Iskaral Pust]

1 hour ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

No, I has a terrible panic attack during training and wound up being hospitalized for two days. 

Sorry.  That sounds like it was better to find out early. 

[Theda Baratheon]

I had an interview today and think it went okay! She is letting whoever is successful know on friday morning as they want them to start working next week. I only need to give a 1 week notice at my current job and I am actually on holiday next week. So would that week count as my one week notice if I gave in my notice friday afternoon/saturday morning?? Would I just...not need to go in after that???

[sperry]

I have officially decided to leave the legal field and go get an MBA. Why the hell not.

[Datepalm]

Well, depending on what you hope to do with it, what you've done before, cost, opportunity cost, where you are in the world and your level of interest in the subject...possibly lots of reasons why not. Why yes?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Still waiting for the interview for the job I really really want*, and now I have an interview for another "backup" job.  When it rains it pours. At least this time I could say that yes, I am in the running for another job, so it won't come as a complete surprise if I turn it down.

I just want to know where were all these jobs a few years ago  

*my boss is still being very encouraging, but there are a total of 44 applicants, and at least 3 were previously on this team (according to the lady retiring).  I'm more nervous now, but just yesterday the boss gave me work he normally would give the other two ladies here. According to them, he relies on them to do that sort of thing (update the training matrix to reflect the resent changes---it also felt like a bit of a test). They said that is also a good sign. I hope they are right.

I am starting to appreciate the behavior type interview questions and preparing a variety of answers in advance (as you should! winging those is not a good idea, really)

I have come up with a great answer for the "Greatest Weakness" question (one I think a lot of people can relate to, being an introvert---it is all about how you overcome your weaknesses):

I am an introvert. Don’t misunderstand; I’m not shy at all and I do much better professionally, than personally. It has taken a lot of work to (mostly) overcome this, and I still sometimes have to practice what I’ll say on a cold call, or take a few deep breaths and center myself before speaking up in a group situation. I have learned to rely on my confidence and knowledge to get me through most situations. When I was in the army I had to conduct security and background investigations, often on high ranking officers, even though I was an enlisted person. In addition to having to ask very personal questions and maintain control of the interviews, there was an added challenge of dealing with the military’s strict hierarchy. I had to be professional, in control, and at the same time afford them the respect and courtesy their rank required. It was a delegate balancing act, and I learned to use professionalism and the surety that I was in the right to got me through the interviews.  I also had to regularly conduct security briefings to groups ranging in size from 10 to 300 people. Again, I used my thorough understanding of the subject to overcome my natural inclinations.

In all my positions since leaving the military, I have applied the lessons I learned there. I learn all about the job, the standard operating procedures, and any appropriate regulations. Cloaking myself in knowledge and professionalism allows me to be able to speak up in meetings, take part in group projects, suggest process improvements, deal with clients, and even disagree with managers. Sometimes people can think I am a little standoffish until they get to know me better. I do still have some difficulty putting myself forward (as opposed to work ideas) and I still can feel  a little uncomfortable in large group social interactions.  I know I still have some aspects of it to overcome, but I am continually working on it.

[Xray the Enforcer]

People still ask that question?!

If someone ever does that to me in an interview, I'm just going to respond: I'm an asshole. But I'm the most talented asshole you'll ever employ.

[sperry]

3 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Well, depending on what you hope to do with it, what you've done before, cost, opportunity cost, where you are in the world and your level of interest in the subject...possibly lots of reasons why not. Why yes?

 

Consulting, Lawyer, 50% scholarship to top 10 US program, very little opportunity cost, Flyover America, high interest in subject.