Ken Stone Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 If Cyborg is or has used steroids then if I am Rousey there is no way I go up to her weight. Why would I move out of my comfort zone to appease someone who likely can't lose the weight due to the steroid gains? To me, if Cyborg wants it, come and get it. It's not about appeasing anyone. To me it is about a legacy and proving herself. If she moves up to 140 and beats Cyborg she goes down as the most dominate fighter ever. Cyborg is another pelt to hang on her wall. Her other choice is to make movies, play grabass in the WWE, and everyone once in awhile stop back by the UFC to cream another overmatched chick. It's probably going to come down to her mindset and what she wants out of her career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Again though she is the hunted. She is the recognized one, not Cyborg. The hunted doesn't come out to the hunter. You make the hunter come to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Again though she is the hunted. She is the recognized one, not Cyborg. The hunted doesn't come out to the hunter. You make the hunter come to you. Sure. If she considers herself prey for Cyborg then by all means duck the fight. If she wants to cement her legacy as the most dominate fighter ever then take the fight at 140. Only Ronda knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 She wouldnt be ducking anything. She is the star attraction and she is at 135 period. If Cyborg wants a piece of her then she has to come to her. Hunter after the prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Looking back it was actually 135lbs that was the weight most women MMA fighters around that size agreed to meet at, 145lbs was only pushed hard because of Gina and Cyborg with most of the fighters in the division being forced to move up to meet them if they wanted decent paydays. Cyborg wants to keep the muscle she built up on PEDs(which are IMHO a much greater advantage in womens sport), she could certainly lose some of it and make a lower weight. Really though I don't see Rousey ever getting near GOAT status in MMA, the competition simply isn't there, even Cyborg isn't that great by male standards(her ex husband namesake for example was technically much better than her standing and he wasn't regarded as one of the best) she just exploits the low standard of striking at 135/145lbs the same way Rousey has recently. Grappling wise Rousey is on the same kind of level as the elite male fighters which makes her fun to watch but again nobody else is very close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Looking back it was actually 135lbs that was the weight most women MMA fighters around that size agreed to meet at, 145lbs was only pushed hard because of Gina and Cyborg with most of the fighters in the division being forced to move up to meet them if they wanted decent paydays. Cyborg wants to keep the muscle she built up on PEDs(which are IMHO a much greater advantage in womens sport), she could certainly lose some of it and make a lower weight. Really though I don't see Rousey ever getting near GOAT status in MMA, the competition simply isn't there, even Cyborg isn't that great by male standards(her ex husband namesake for example was technically much better than her standing and he wasn't regarded as one of the best) she just exploits the low standard of striking at 135/145lbs the same way Rousey has recently. Grappling wise Rousey is on the same kind of level as the elite male fighters which makes her fun to watch but again nobody else is very close to that. I don't get this "her competition isn't that great so her achievements are tarnished" talk. Everyone has access to the same training and information yet Ronda destroy's her competition. It's not like the old days of MMA when BJJ was a secret so Gracies could do what they wanted. Everyone has the same access to information. Some how Ronda is so far ahead. When Babe Ruth was smacking home runs people pitchers were not throwing 95 mph fastballs. Do we look down on his accomplishments because of that? I don't think so, because everyone at the time was playing the same game. He was just much better at it. When you have an athlete that is that much better then their competition that doesn't mean the competition is that bad, it means they are making the competition look that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Women's MMA has been a legitimate sport for less time than it takes to train a young athlete into a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 MMA history is littered with fighters who seemed unbeatable until they got beat. It's a young sport and women's mma is even younger. At some point Rousey will slow down a bit and her opponents will get better. This person said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Baseball in Ruth's era was a vastly more developed sport than womens MMA in Rousey's era but there is obviously arguments to be made about objective quality. You look at football for example and many would say that Messi is the greatest footballer ever due to the higher standard of play today relative to Pele's era. I'm not anti Rousey or anti womens MMA but some of the hype at the moment is just getting a bit silly, I can judge objective skill and I know that striking display from both women is not at the level of the best of mens MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrum Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I don't get this "her competition isn't that great so her achievements are tarnished" talk. Everyone has access to the same training and information yet Ronda destroy's her competition. It's not like the old days of MMA when BJJ was a secret so Gracies could do what they wanted. Everyone has the same access to information. Some how Ronda is so far ahead. When Babe Ruth was smacking home runs people pitchers were not throwing 95 mph fastballs. Do we look down on his accomplishments because of that? I don't think so, because everyone at the time was playing the same game. He was just much better at it. When you have an athlete that is that much better then their competition that doesn't mean the competition is that bad, it means they are making the competition look that bad. Agree 1000%. Ronda was born on the same planet as all of her opponents. She enters the same octagon with the same equipment. She wasn't created in a lab. She's a converted single-art fighter just like her opponents. The fact nobody who fights her is able to rise to her level is all the more reason to celebrate her accomplishments, not denigrate them. She embodies the very definition of extraordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 You look at football for example and many would say that Messi is the greatest footballer ever due to the higher standard of play today relative to Pele's era. Yeah, but to do that you have to forget Maradona. Eta: Don Bradman >>>> Babe Ruth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSP Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 So, according to Fedor he is in talks with the UFC. Dare I get hopeful? I think one of the issues with RR and her appearance of invincibility is that her strong suit revolves around the incredibly early finish. In addition to her skillset, she comes out with the pedal to the metal. She's been having so much success in doing so that it literally looks like her opposition has no chance. When she runs into that fighter who either matches her pace and skills or has the defensive game to survive that onslaught, she will start to look human. That same tenacious early pace will work against her if it doesn't work out her way after the initial few minutes. All that said, she is incredible. Watching her practice judo is full on mesmerising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 So, according to Fedor he is in talks with the UFC. Dare I get hopeful? I think one of the issues with RR and her appearance of invincibility is that her strong suit revolves around the incredibly early finish. In addition to her skillset, she comes out with the pedal to the metal. She's been having so much success in doing so that it literally looks like her opposition has no chance. When she runs into that fighter who either matches her pace and skills or has the defensive game to survive that onslaught, she will start to look human. That same tenacious early pace will work against her if it doesn't work out her way after the initial few minutes. All that said, she is incredible. Watching her practice judo is full on mesmerising. IDK, this is about 5 years late for me. Say it does happen though, who does he fight? Is it a HW or LHW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrum Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 There's no way it should happen from a legitimacy viewpoint, but I'd love it if they gave him an immediate title shot. If they're still pulling goofy moves like giving Gus a title shot off a 1st round KO loss and Condit a shot after losses to both Hendricks and Woodley, so why not? The second best option for me is Fedor/Arlovski for a title-eliminator, meaning they guarantee at least one of the most popular fighters in the division a shot. They should have struck while the Andre iron is hot and made Werdum/Arlovksi instead of giving Cain the shot, but now they've failed on that front Arlovski/Fedor would be the next best thing. And sure we're getting ahead of ourselves, but what fun would it be if we didn't dream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Fedor-Arlovski II would be an interesting match for sure, so why not? Also, I was pretty sure Dana White was making a Condit-Lawler matchup for UFC 194 in Calgary because he kept saying he owed Calgary after a lackluster card they had there, Condit seems to be pretty popular in Canada and that fight should be an action packed brawl. But now they are scheduled for UFC 193 so my logic is out the window. Eta: Don Bradman >>>> Babe Ruth.I had to look up who Don Bradman was, you didn't have to look up who Babe Ruth was. Therefore Babe Ruth >>>>Don Bradman B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Who the fuck is Babe Ruth? Anyway, your greatness is to a large extent commensurate with the standard of your competition. It isn't a denigration of Rousey to note this, it's simply an honest assessment of the facts. ANNNNND Michael Johnson gets fucking robbed after thoroughly outclassing Dariush. Just fuck man. And nice win from Teixera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrum Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Who the fuck is Babe Ruth? Anyway, your greatness is to a large extent commensurate with the standard of your competition. Sometimes. Sometimes it's just a case of what is the greater spectacle. The LHW and HW divisions in MMA (like HW in boxing) have always been the marquee divisions even though they're significantly shallower talent pools, so the likes of Fedor and Jones are often mentioned ahead of the likes of GSP and Aldo, even though P4P Aldo and GSP have had consistently tougher opponents. Ronda's greatness may in the end depend on how much she can make her performance into spectacle. She's doing a pretty great job so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I had to look up who Don Bradman was, you didn't have to look up who Babe Ruth was. Therefore Babe Ruth >>>>Don Bradman B) Yeah, but that's because you're a pig-headed American with no time for anything outside of your borders whereas I'm a well-schooled European who's force-fed US cultural propaganda in my entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Sometimes. Sometimes it's just a case of what is the greater spectacle. The LHW and HW divisions in MMA (like HW in boxing) have always been the marquee divisions even though they're significantly shallower talent pools, so the likes of Fedor and Jones are often mentioned ahead of the likes of GSP and Aldo, even though P4P Aldo and GSP have had consistently tougher opponents. Well first of all I don't think any kind of vast majority says holds that Fedor was greater than GSP. It seems pretty split. And I think Jon Jones has faced consistently tougher competition than GSP and Aldo. Fedor's and Jones' greatness isn't really based on spectacle either way, especially not Jones'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yeah, but that's because you're a pig-headed American with no time for anything outside of your borders whereas I'm a pretentious European who's force-fed US cultural propaganda in my entertainment.Ftfy ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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