Heh? Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 First off, I realize this is a topic that is connected with the show, but this still seems a relevant place to discuss. I know some will argue that we can not make inferences about the books based on the TV show, and for the most part I agree, but not on this topic. Spoiler I've always felt that dragon steel did indeed refer to Valyrian steel. Not necessarily that Valyrian steel was called Valyrian steel when the book Sam refers to was written, but that dragon steel refers to steel forged from dragon flame and spellcraft. Based on season 5 episode 8, Jon killing one of the Others with Longclaw, can we safely conclude that Valyrian steel is a form of dragon steel? It seems too significant of a matter for the show to deviate from Martins intent on. First time trying spoiler tag so forgive me if it didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarlightDancer Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I have read these books since I was a little girl. I have loved them. I watch the show now waiting for the next book. When I saw tonight I cheered... then it hit me. Somehow it just wasn't real until an hour after tonight's show. The spoilers are going to make me so sad... I want to read them before I watch them, but everyone I know watches the show, and only a very few read the books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vyshan Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Haven't people in the books discussed the possibility that the valyrian steel swords are able to kill the White Walkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazule Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah, they're pretty sure Valryrian Steel is Dragonsteel. I just kinda assumed it was going to be that way. And I wouldn't fear about spoilers. We have a relatively good idea what will happen next episode, and even in episode 10, and none of this should be too spoilerific. At least not story spoilers in place of universe spoilers. George plans on getting the next book out before next season, and there's enough content for them to fill a measly 2 hours with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah i thought the same. And they're now slowly setting Olly up to betray Jon, talking about that scene with Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah i thought the same. And they're now slowly setting Olly up to betray Jon, talking about that scene with Sam. Eh, given Olly looks like he wants to kick a puppy every time he looks at Jon, they've been "foreshadowing" that for awhile now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Joe the Unknighted Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I was previously like 99.8% sure that Valyrian Steel was once known as Dragon Steel. Now I'm 99.9999999999 % sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogar_the_Huntsman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah i thought the same. And they're now slowly setting Olly up to betray Jon, talking about that scene with Sam. Honestly, I will be fine with Olly being among those who stab Jon...as long as Wun Wun gets to rip him in half after :lol: But did anyone catch that line about ice spiders? I for one am really hoping to see some walkers riding giant ice spiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah, they're pretty sure Valryrian Steel is Dragonsteel. I just kinda assumed it was going to be that way. And I wouldn't fear about spoilers. We have a relatively good idea what will happen next episode, and even in episode 10, and none of this should be too spoilerific. At least not story spoilers in place of universe spoilers. George plans on getting the next book out before next season, and there's enough content for them to fill a measly 2 hours with. I was previously like 99.8% sure that Valyrian Steel was once known as Dragon Steel. Now I'm 99.9999999999 % sure. Yup but good luck finding any more for the Watch. Better pray that they are emptying Dragonstone of obsidian. Honestly, I will be fine with Olly being among those who stab Jon...as long as Wun Wun gets to rip him in half after :lol: But did anyone catch that line about ice spiders? I for one am really hoping to see some walkers riding giant ice spiders. Got to save Ice Spiders for the final battle, you don't waste Ice Spiders on small skirmishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Joe the Unknighted Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well there is one other Valyrian steel sword in the far north (Darksister). Valyrian Steel is around and it will help some important characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oopeed Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well there is one other Valyrian steel sword in the far north (Darksister). Valyrian Steel is around and it will help some important characters. If the Lord of Crows still has it and is willing to part with it... it may be a foreshadowing of Meera's role in the future as Bran's sworn woman. I think we all here suspected bout VS being Dragonsteel, the valyrian thingy pretty much gives it away, but there's only one of such blades in the wall and for all we know only a couple in the North and the southern lords are not willing to give them away nor believe the tales of the dead are true. Hope Stannis' people could load lots of dragonglass before the castle was raided. If the battle in the north goes wrong because of lack of obsidian, then we can all blame the Lannisters and Tyrells for all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoffa Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The Long Night predates the Valyrians so its safe to assume the dragonlords werent the first to craft valyrian steel but infact taught? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The Long Night predates the Valyrians so its safe to assume the dragonlords werent the first to craft valyrian steel but infact taught? By who do you reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoffa Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 By who do you reckon? Your guess is as good as mine im afraid. But i would guess by the same people who built the Five Forts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosts Lunch Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Honestly, I will be fine with Olly being among those who stab Jon...as long as Wun Wun gets to rip him in half after :lol: But did anyone catch that line about ice spiders? I for one am really hoping to see some walkers riding giant ice spiders. Same here I had been thinking them too Fantasyish for the show to go along with but this was a small line that got me cheering Reminded me of the 3-tier Others hierarchy thread actually, and the idea of the Upper Caste riding those Ice Spiders up the Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosts Lunch Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yup but good luck finding any more for the Watch. Better pray that they are emptying Dragonstone of obsidian. Got to save Ice Spiders for the final battle, you don't waste Ice Spiders on small skirmishes. Dragonglass and Valyrian Steel are different IMO I am wondering if the 3-tier theory holds weight, it is a case of Fire kills Wights, Dragonglass (and VS) kills White Walkers and then Valyrian/Dragon Steel kills the Upper Caste That said the same magic that is woven into Dragonglass weapons could be woven into Valyrian Steel weapons too amongst other things (eg more layers and hence attributes to Valyrian Steel), eg Neds Ice which was broken into two meant Oathkeeper I think it was has some extra magic layer which mad it dark which I think is the subject of speculation? Speaking of Oathkeeper, in terms of the TV show they are going with a lot of twin scenes/characters, eg the Stannis/Shireen scene had its twin with Roose/Ramsay, Cersei/Tommen then had Jaimie/Myrcella, and so we have Jon, Longclaw and Olly having its suspected twin with Brienne, Oathkeeper and Stannis so it would be intriguing if how Longclaw just served a prominent role in killing a WW we see a twin prominence for Oathkeeper killing Stannis? Back on topic I wonder if it is as simple as mining and then crafting Dragonglass, eg do CoTF have to put spells on it for it to be able to kill White Walkers/Others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Dragonglass and Valyrian Steel are different IMO I am wondering if the 3-tier theory holds weight, it is a case of Fire kills Wights, Dragonglass (and VS) kills White Walkers and then Valyrian/Dragon Steel kills the Upper Caste That said the same magic that is woven into Dragonglass weapons could be woven into Valyrian Steel weapons too amongst other things (eg more layers and hence attributes to Valyrian Steel), eg Neds Ice which was broken into two meant Oathkeeper I think it was has some extra magic layer which mad it dark which I think is the subject of speculation? Speaking of Oathkeeper, in terms of the TV show they are going with a lot of twin scenes/characters, eg the Stannis/Shireen scene had its twin with Roose/Ramsay, Cersei/Tommen then had Jaimie/Myrcella, and so we have Jon, Longclaw and Olly having its suspected twin with Brienne, Oathkeeper and Stannis so it would be intriguing if how Longclaw just served a prominent role in killing a WW we see a twin prominence for Oathkeeper killing Stannis? Back on topic I wonder if it is as simple as mining and then crafting Dragonglass, eg do CoTF have to put spells on it for it to be able to kill White Walkers/Others? I don't recall reading about dragon glass having magic woven into it. I always thought dragon glass and obsidian were the same. I also thought obsidian was just rock that was made by the fires of dragons and this is why there is so much of it on Dragonstone. I kind of envisioned all the dragons living there over the years blasting fire at each other melting the surrounding rock, turning it into dragon glass/obsidian. Do we know of any places where there are large amounts of obsidian other than Dragonstone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The Long Night predates the Valyrians so its safe to assume the dragonlords werent the first to craft valyrian steel but infact taught? Or they re-discovered and perfected the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Dragonglass and Valyrian Steel are different IMO I am wondering if the 3-tier theory holds weight, it is a case of Fire kills Wights, Dragonglass (and VS) kills White Walkers and then Valyrian/Dragon Steel kills the Upper Caste That said the same magic that is woven into Dragonglass weapons could be woven into Valyrian Steel weapons too amongst other things (eg more layers and hence attributes to Valyrian Steel), eg Neds Ice which was broken into two meant Oathkeeper I think it was has some extra magic layer which mad it dark which I think is the subject of speculation? Speaking of Oathkeeper, in terms of the TV show they are going with a lot of twin scenes/characters, eg the Stannis/Shireen scene had its twin with Roose/Ramsay, Cersei/Tommen then had Jaimie/Myrcella, and so we have Jon, Longclaw and Olly having its suspected twin with Brienne, Oathkeeper and Stannis so it would be intriguing if how Longclaw just served a prominent role in killing a WW we see a twin prominence for Oathkeeper killing Stannis? Back on topic I wonder if it is as simple as mining and then crafting Dragonglass, eg do CoTF have to put spells on it for it to be able to kill White Walkers/Others? I have long theorized that Obsidian (ie Dragonglass) is one of the components of Valyrian Steel, in fact, I think the black waves in the steel is in fact obsidian, thus why it can kill a White Walker. We also know that glass candles are made of obsidian, and they can burn without being consumed, thus why I think that AA's sword of dragonsteel contained obsidian. I think it's also why GRRM showed us that Stannis's original sword was ruined by the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Did old Valyrian that produced Valyrian steel came in existence later than the war with the Others and First men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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