Tyrion's suggestion to Dany

[The Emberheart]

I can for my life not see Jon accepting the throne, while Dany would not. Jon has every hallmark of choosing promises and oaths over desires or opportunities. He works with the wildlings because it is nescesary, he'll help Stannis out in whatever way possible because if everything south of the wall is too busy fighting eachother, they cannot fight the coming winter, but he won't sit on a throne I think. Jon, to me, is the kind of lad who when this is all over resumes his duty on the wall because an oath is an oath, honouring that oath like Ned would have in his place, giving up the throne in memory of how Aemon did the same. He may even be the only man on the wall when the Others are beaten, promising to keep vigil until his watch has ended.

[Attitude]

Dany will die while she sees the red door for the first time / invisions it for the last time.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

I can for my life not see Jon accepting the throne, while Dany would not. Jon has every hallmark of choosing promises and oaths over desires or opportunities. He works with the wildlings because it is nescesary, he'll help Stannis out in whatever way possible because if everything south of the wall is too busy fighting eachother, they cannot fight the coming winter, but he won't sit on a throne I think. Jon, to me, is the kind of lad who when this is all over resumes his duty on the wall because an oath is an oath, honouring that oath like Ned would have in his place, giving up the throne in memory of how Aemon did the same. He may even be the only man on the wall when the Others are beaten, promising to keep vigil until his watch has ended.

This.

[lojzelote]

GRRM: ...And how many children did Scarlett O'Hara have, anyway?

This comparison doesn't work. If anybody is Wade and Ella to Dany's Scarlett, then it's Rhaego and the probable miscarriage from the end of ADwD. The most important (in Dany's case, surviving) child wouldn't be omitted. For that matter, while Scarlett's eldest two children are missing in the movie adaptation, her first two husbands (the children's fathers) aren't.

[Mithras]

This comparison doesn't work. If anybody is Wade and Ella to Dany's Scarlett, then it's Rhaego and the probable miscarriage from the end of ADwD. The most important (in Dany's case, surviving) child wouldn't be omitted. For that matter, while Scarlett's eldest two children are missing in the movie adaptation, her first two husbands (the children's fathers) aren't.

That was not a comparison. That was to show the futility of comparing the books and the show. With so many characters and plots being merged in the show, it is not meaningful to point the absence of Victarion.

[Nictarion]

That was not a comparison. That was to show the futility of comparing the books and the show. With so many characters and plots being merged in the show, it is not meaningful to point the absence of Victarion.

I disagree. D&D know the endgame for all the major characters. If Dany dies giving birth to Vic's baby, they know about it. I think making it another character in the show would just be too big of a change. Victarion is likely sterile anyway. He's been married 3 times and has no children.

[Ted Chang]

I can for my life not see Jon accepting the throne, while Dany would not. Jon has every hallmark of choosing promises and oaths over desires or opportunities. He works with the wildlings because it is nescesary, he'll help Stannis out in whatever way possible because if everything south of the wall is too busy fighting eachother, they cannot fight the coming winter, but he won't sit on a throne I think. Jon, to me, is the kind of lad who when this is all over resumes his duty on the wall because an oath is an oath, honouring that oath like Ned would have in his place, giving up the throne in memory of how Aemon did the same. He may even be the only man on the wall when the Others are beaten, promising to keep vigil until his watch has ended.

I think it all comes down to the post-murder Jon. He may not be exactly the same person.. in more ways than one!

[RSMITTY7640]

The most interesting part of that sequence to me is that she includes herself in the wheel she plans to break. She lists Targaryens along with all the other houses. There's no way that is a slip-up or lousy writing. It's way too obvious so it must be intentional - the writers want to call attention to the fact that she intends to break every house, the entire system, including her own. That sounds like a rejection of the IT to me.

She didnt include Arryn guess sweet Robin will rule in the end

[Scorpion92]

Yeah,never got this hate for Jon/Dany...Especially considering they will be in opposite sides. AND the fact he will defeat her and prove he is Rhaegar's son.

I see them having a child,but Dany not making it through,putting Sansa as the surrogate mother to the kid.

[JonisHenryTudor]

I disagree. D&D know the endgame for all the major characters. If Dany dies giving birth to Vic's baby, they know about it. I think making it another character in the show would just be too big of a change. Victarion is likely sterile anyway. He's been married 3 times and has no children.

Unless of course they introduce him later (doubt it). But I would agree that Victarion is not necessarily a good candidate, at least in the show.

If it is Daario or Hizzies, I think it would be an interesting, if not poetic twist. An no Nictarion, this is not from a point of Dany-hate and my wanting her to be gone:

1. If it is Daario, it would be poetic because many people (or so it seems) think Daario is somewhat of a poison in her ear. Dying from his child would sort of solidify that reasoning.

2. Hizzy (Hizdahr) - Some have suggested that he leads the Harpies, and if this is true his child killing her would be an interesting twist.

[Nictarion]

If Daenerys has a baby with anyone it's going to be Jon. :P

[mirthula]

I can for my life not see Jon accepting the throne, while Dany would not. Jon has every hallmark of choosing promises and oaths over desires or opportunities. He works with the wildlings because it is nescesary, he'll help Stannis out in whatever way possible because if everything south of the wall is too busy fighting eachother, they cannot fight the coming winter, but he won't sit on a throne I think. Jon, to me, is the kind of lad who when this is all over resumes his duty on the wall because an oath is an oath, honouring that oath like Ned would have in his place, giving up the throne in memory of how Aemon did the same. He may even be the only man on the wall when the Others are beaten, promising to keep vigil until his watch has ended.

Yeah that is Jon for you his destiny is bound to the wall and the North. I think unlike Dany he is more clear in what he needs to do right now and where he belongs. Jon is a born leader/warrior and there is some level of politics involved in running the Nights Watch but it takes a different kind of skill to rule the seven kingdoms and Jon is not that person.

I also see his end as someone who will rule over the watch but also the Wildlings, not directly maybe but he will definitely help the elders settle them south of the wall. We all know he is going to play a big role in the coming battle, either it will be an all out battle which has to end with the others dying or some kind of peace treaty will be signed again but Jon will resume his post as LC. It will be bitter sweet for him to lose his brothers but left with only a handful of them to continue the watch and they have to rebuild the NW again from scratch. It is only fitting considering when he joined the Watch he was disgusted with it and thought it was a pointless organization now is there any thing more important than NW.

[naabi]

I don't think Tyrion's suggestion is a 'real' one. I think he just wants to test Dany's will and determine her intentions. Just think about it, as he told her, she is already a ruler of a very large city, and the outcome of her return to Westeros is very uncertain, everything she won is at stake. Any other person at her place could be tempted to remain in Essos, Tyrion is trying to check how resolute is she in her ideas. Or, how he puts, how worthy is she of his council.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Exactly. I'm sure he does want her to go back to Westeros eventually so that he can take vengeance on Cersei. And because someone does need to fix things there, and he doesn't support any of the other candidates.

[Fox Mulder]

I can for my life not see Jon accepting the throne, while Dany would not. Jon has every hallmark of choosing promises and oaths over desires or opportunities. He works with the wildlings because it is nescesary, he'll help Stannis out in whatever way possible because if everything south of the wall is too busy fighting eachother, they cannot fight the coming winter, but he won't sit on a throne I think. Jon, to me, is the kind of lad who when this is all over resumes his duty on the wall because an oath is an oath, honouring that oath like Ned would have in his place, giving up the throne in memory of how Aemon did the same. He may even be the only man on the wall when the Others are beaten, promising to keep vigil until his watch has ended.

I see what your saying and I think you are very correct in your reading of the character and his motivations however I think by the end of the series, the wall will have fallen and the knowledge and desire will just not be there to rebuild it, the nights watch will be irrelevant since the WW will have been defeated and he will have possibly been reborn. If the WW are actually a major threat as has been foreshadowed there will probably be very little left in Westeros and there will not be the resources to retain an independent one use military order with no mission. This leaves Jon with either retiring or being king. And John has shown through his treatment of the Wildlings and his forethought in organizing resistance against the WW that he would be a good king.

I am not a stannis hater although I don't like his whole burning people alive deal. If he had only burned a few people in order to summon the magical power to save the kingdom then I would understand better but he has allowed his wife and melisandre to burn a lot of people, which is a horrible way to die. Anyways back on point I don't think he will survive. I like the Night King Theory but if it is included in the books I don't think we'll see it in the show due to budgeting reasons. They're going to want to cutdown on the cast especially if they include the iron islands plot.

[Hodor's Dragon]

I don't think Tyrion's suggestion is a 'real' one. I think he just wants to test Dany's will and determine her intentions. Just think about it, as he told her, she is already a ruler of a very large city, and the outcome of her return to Westeros is very uncertain, everything she won is at stake. Any other person at her place could be tempted to remain in Essos, Tyrion is trying to check how resolute is she in her ideas. Or, how he puts, how worthy is she of his council.

I tend to think this. It was something that needed to be said, not necessarily an actual suggested course of action. Daenerys must at least confront the idea of staying in Essos.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I think it all comes down to the post-murder Jon. He may not be exactly the same person.. in more ways than one!

I absolutely need Jon to be tempted by the dark side. In order to be fully realized, he needs to have a book where he confronts his demons. Unlike Dany, he hasn't had his SB experience yet.

If Daenerys has a baby with anyone it's going to be Jon. :P

:lmao: But you're wasting your time trying to convince those in denial! Because clearly, there's been thousands of pages of setup so that Dany can procreate with a sellsword or a slaver.

I'm not sure if she has any children other than her dragons. But if she dies in childbirth, she goes trying to have a baby of ice + fire + fire.

I tend to think this. It was something that needed to be said, not necessarily an actual suggested course of action. Daenerys must at least confront the idea of staying in Essos.

She very well may in the upcoming book...

...when she visits the DK. Uniting all the khalasars and being proclaimed TSTMTW (or say, Drogon getting that honor) gives her control of most of the continent of Essos. Very tempting to stop there.

[JonisHenryTudor]

If Daenerys has a baby with anyone it's going to be Jon. :P

Immaculate conception. Martin you sneaky bastard ;).

[fangirl000]

At the end of the story, if she lives through it, I think she will go back to Essos to rule there.

The most interesting part of that sequence to me is that she includes herself in the wheel she plans to break. She lists Targaryens along with all the other houses. There's no way that is a slip-up or lousy writing. It's way too obvious so it must be intentional - the writers want to call attention to the fact that she intends to break every house, the entire system, including her own. That sounds like a rejection of the IT to me.

Dany is not rejecting the feudal system which gives the IT it's power. Because clearly, Dany wants to rule. She believes she is meant to rule, by right of birth. And, as demonstrated in Essos, once Dany is in power, she is willing to use force in order to remain in power - she fed a Master to her dragons, after all. She's not giving any of her subjects a choice in whether or not to follow her orders. There's no democracy being set up, there's no parliamentary system. In no way does Dany indicate that she is rejecting the IT. Dany means to "break the wheel" only in the sense that she wants to break the cycle of houses toppling other houses. Once Dany is on top, she plans to make it so her house is never subservient to another house, ever again. Targaryens forever. So to my mind, for all that it was a very dramatic speech, Dany missed the point of Tyrion's lesson entirely. Dany wants to "break" the wheel, but really all she might do is slow it down for awhile.

[Mithras]

I disagree. D&D know the endgame for all the major characters. If Dany dies giving birth to Vic's baby, they know about it. I think making it another character in the show would just be too big of a change. Victarion is likely sterile anyway. He's been married 3 times and has no children.

Only if you think the child will be important to the story.