Hol Horse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 My only problem with them is that it's a bit unrealistic. I mean, the cold at that point would freeze the wights - both the skeleton ones and corpse ones. They have no blood pumping so they can't excite their muscles - the ones with no muscles wouldn't be able to move at all. The cold would freeze their exposed joints and they'd be motionless or really slow at best. Furthermore, they kept getting up, even after jumping and falling off the edge of the mountain. We're to assume that necromancy is involved, but the Others aren't show weaving any hand signs or chanting. These things break the laws of science, magic, and my own personal needs, views and desires for and of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Nan Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I'm ok with all sorts of corpses being animated, from a storytelling perspective but I also think that skeleton wights translate badly on screen. They look like the crew of the black pearl, or the army of darkness skeletons. The frozen corpses of season one were scarier, I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 My only problem with them is that it's a bit unrealistic. I mean, the cold at that point would freeze the wights - both the skeleton ones and corpse ones. They have no blood pumping so they can't excite their muscles - the ones with no muscles wouldn't be able to move at all. The cold would freeze their exposed joints and they'd be motionless or really slow at best. Furthermore, they kept getting up, even after jumping and falling off the edge of the mountain. We're to assume that necromancy is involved, but the Others aren't show weaving any hand signs or chanting. These things break the laws of science, magic, and my own personal needs, views and desires for and of the series. Magic. Seriously, magic. Dead people with muscles wouldn't have any blood to help them, anyway. They aren't moving on their own, they are clearly being controlled like puppets on a string, so there's no reason for them to shamble on when someone has the magic to force you to move. And these things don't break the 'laws' of magic because there are no laws of magic in this show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Magic.Seriously, magic. Dead people with muscles wouldn't have any blood to help them, anyway. They aren't moving on their own, they are clearly being controlled like puppets on a string, so there's no reason for them to shamble on when someone has the magic to force you to move.And these things don't break the 'laws' of magic because there are no laws of magic in this show. Sir, my post was very serious and really well thought-out. Please don't dismiss its severity and thoughtfulness by simply saying "magic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud RR Martin Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 You guys saw the dragons right? Walking skeletons shouldn't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Slow and stupid undead aren't intimidating. I'm all for a more diverse undead variety.Imagine if the show wights were just like book wights? The wildlings could have taken their leisurely time to escape and still had time for supper.Except book wights would not have engaged in single combat with their opponents. Swords, axes, or arrows would not have stopped them one bit, even if decapitated. And considering how many wildlings were there, the ensuing chaos would have resulted in plenty of losses. Which is how it probably happened in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gash is back Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 they decompose over time. do people really need that explaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Sir, my post was very serious and really well thought-out. Please don't dismiss its severity and thoughtfulness by simply saying "magic." I read your entire post, and as well thought-out and serious as it was, it was also incredibly flawed. You quoted that there were laws of magic...there are no such laws in this series. They have never been established at any point by design. Martin admitted that he doesn't want magic to have rhyme or reason because it then becomes science. Hence, we have magic that has no rhyme or reason. So you can't say that these zombies break any laws of magic. You quoted that it was unrealistic due to the fact that there was no blood pumping. Well, none of the corpses, no matter their state of decay, have blood pumping...that's because they are dead and the blood has either congealed or dried up. And they have no body warmth to begin with, and yet they move around with no issue, even in the books. And doesn't matter about their joints, because they are not ambulating under their own power...they are being moved by puppet masters, and when you hack off a limb, the limb moves under its own power. So I would say that I have responded to your well-thought out post with my own well-thought out post. So there's no reason to get angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I read your entire post, and as well thought-out and serious as it was, it was also incredibly flawed.You quoted that there were laws of magic...there are no such laws in this series. They have never been established at any point by design. Martin admitted that he doesn't want magic to have rhyme or reason because it then becomes science. Hence, we have magic that has no rhyme or reason. So you can't say that these zombies break any laws of magic.You quoted that it was unrealistic due to the fact that there was no blood pumping. Well, none of the corpses, no matter their state of decay, have blood pumping...that's because they are dead and the blood has either congealed or dried up. And they have no body warmth to begin with, and yet they move around with no issue, even in the books.And doesn't matter about their joints, because they are not ambulating under their own power...they are being moved by puppet masters, and when you hack off a limb, the limb moves under its own power.So I would say that I have responded to your well-thought out post with my own well-thought out post. So there's no reason to get angry. I know sarcasm loses some of its visibility and effect when written, especially on le interwebs, but my second post should've given it away. I was poking fun at some of the complaints people had about reanimated corpses in a world of fantasy. I was in no way Sirius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acosta Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The ones we saw at the beginning of the show were dead at most a few days, some only a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I know sarcasm loses some of its visibility and effect when written, especially on le interwebs, but my second post should've given it away. I was poking fun at some of the complaints people had about reanimated corpses in a world of fantasy. I was in no way Sirius. Sarcasm font. Also, this situation is very much an example of Poe's Law, if that helps to explain why I couldn't tell that you were being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Sarcasm font. Also, this situation is very much an example of Poe's Law, if that helps to explain why I couldn't tell that you were being sarcastic. But comic sans are too easy. And yes, I wasn't aware of the term, but I assumed that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwight Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I do think one of the few mistakes the show has made as far as production values go are the skeletons; they're very very cheesy and cheap-looking, even if ironically very costly to make. Just people in rotten make-up without screeching sounds would be a lot more convincing in every way. Also, while I can suspend my disbelief for fleshy zombies moving, it's really hard to do the same for skeletons, because the skeletons clearly don't have the parts which make a body move. And if they're moved by what's basically telekinesis, then why would the White Walkers use that kind of power for moving corpses? They could just float a thousand spears in the air instead and save themselves some trouble. Even if their telekinetic ability was somehow limited to organics, it'd still be ridiculous if they could actually control the limb movements of thousands and thousands of bodies at the same time across large distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Also, while I can suspend my disbelief for fleshy zombies moving, it's really hard to do the same for skeletons, because the skeletons clearly don't have the parts which make a body move. And if they're moved by what's basically telekinesis, then why would the White Walkers use that kind of power for moving corpses? They could just float a thousand spears in the air instead and save themselves some trouble. Even if their telekinetic ability was somehow limited to organics, it'd still be ridiculous if they could actually control the limb movements of thousands and thousands of bodies at the same time across large distances. Are you serious? I mean we have dragons breathing fire that can melt stone walls. It's called magic. The skeletons are just old ass rotted humans resurrected with the same magic that allows a fleshy zombie to move. It doesn't have to obey the laws of physics because we are talking about reanimating dead corpses. If you can suspend your disbelief for people riding molten-fire breathing dragons while they raze entire cities then surely you can suspend it for skeletons running around with tendons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The skeletons are dumb - I agree with the op. Bones can't stay together without flesh (ligaments, tendons etc). Burning doesn't destroy bones, only flesh- unless it is extremely hot. I thought the reason burning a wright stops them is because, once you have turned them to bones, they can't stay together and there is nothing to 'possess' with cold blue Other light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 If you have enough wood and fire, sure, then you have a shot against some wights - which is why usually a lot of them show up, and their masters (who stay behind and don't participate in the battle - because, you know, that's what the wights are for) send out their cold and darkness which seems to dampen or extinguish ordinary fire. I'd probably die laughing when I was attacked by those wights - because, well, you know, they look like they've escaped from some clichéd horror/fantasy movie. They may kill you but they aren't scary. I'm sure if you were there you would be doubled over in laughter over an army of dead things coming to rip your guts open...you know, like the other Wildlings and NW who just couldn't get over how cliched it all was! :read: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I'm not fond of the abundance of skeltons either. Sure, some would have decayed through time, but more likely in the frozen north they would have mummified. Decomposition is caused by bugs and bacteria, which would have a hard time surviving the Far North. Just slap a little mummy flesh on them and all of a sudden I am better with that. As others have said, the skellies look cheesy, and especially the frenetic, chittering skeletons. I like the fast corpses, but the skeletons just look jittery. I understand part of it is probably keeping them visually distinct, and I get that, but even if this is the driving force, they could have used less of them. We weren't going to confuse fresh wight corpses clinging to Wun Wun's back as wildlings, so that's an easy place to switch some out. I have to assume they are either much cheaper to animate, or they just like the look of them. The later reason is unfortunate, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwight Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Are you serious? I mean we have dragons breathing fire that can melt stone walls. It's called magic. The skeletons are just old ass rotted humans resurrected with the same magic that allows a fleshy zombie to move. It doesn't have to obey the laws of physics because we are talking about reanimating dead corpses. If you can suspend your disbelief for people riding molten-fire breathing dragons while they raze entire cities then surely you can suspend it for skeletons running around with tendons. Well, no. I don't have a problem with dragons, there's nothing about them that clearly doesn't make sense to me. Dragons need to obey the laws of physics as well, for example you need to animate their flying in a way which makes it look natural, and you can't have them spit out a fireball the size of a city block. Other than that, nothing about them makes my brain insist that "that's impossible". And sure, dragons are clearly meant to be magical and associated with magic somehow, but it's very subtle and most importantly that's not related to their believability as such. They're magical, but they might as well not be (they could just be fire-breathing winged lizards). The skeleton wights on the other hand could not exist without some very specific and concrete kind of complicated physics-manipulating magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well, no. I don't have a problem with dragons, there's nothing about them that clearly doesn't make sense to me. Dragons need to obey the laws of physics as well, for example you need to animate their flying in a way which makes it look natural, and you can't have them spit out a fireball the size of a city block. Other than that, nothing about them makes my brain insist that "that's impossible". And sure, dragons are clearly meant to be magical and associated with magic somehow, but it's very subtle and most importantly that's not related to their believability as such. They're magical, but they might as well not be (they could just be fire-breathing winged lizards). The skeleton wights on the other hand could not exist without some very specific and concrete kind of complicated physics-manipulating magic. Like the kind Mel uses to create a shadow assassin in the form of a human who's capable of infiltrating heavily guarded castles and cut clean through several layers of high quality armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwight Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Like the kind Mel uses to create a shadow assassin in the form of a human who's capable of infiltrating heavily guarded castles and cut clean through several layers of high quality armor? Yeah, I don't really have a problem with shadow babies either. When you put it like that, sure, I suppose they don't logically make any more sense than skeleton wights, but it still feels a lot more believable. I'm not sure what the exact cognitive reason is for why dragons and shadow babies work for me but skeleton wights don't; maybe it's not the reason I gave but something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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