Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hey guys long time reader of the forums but i havent read the books so i dont really mind spoilers in this thread but can someone explain why everyone is talking about valryian steel and its signficance? Is that a book thing? Cause i really couldnt see the importance of it just by watching the show. Why is it so importsnt that it can kill the white walkers?Valyrian steel was made by old valyrian engineering techniques which lost during the doom of valyria. Valyrian steel is lighter and sharper than normal steel and are very effective during battle because of light weight and can cut through almost anything. Unlike real steel they also have distinctive design and patterns on their blade. Since the doom the valyrian steel manufacturing technique is lost and today there are only a limited number of valyrian steel weapons in the world which are highly prized by individuals and houses that own them. They are also called dragonsteel which eludes that dragonfire might have been used in their manufacturing. If you are more interested search Damascus steel which is real life parallel of valyrian steel, technology of which has also been lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holymoly Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ''I've been worrying about Jon for years. He always comes back'' That could just be the equivalent of someone talking about buying a farm after the war......immediate death sentence. Presumably the cliffhanger in Ep 10 will be Jon being "killed". Hopefully Melisandre turns up in time to do a Thoros of Myr on him before they burn his body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Where is 200 plus people with Valyrian steel swords coming from? Keep reading it on here.On last count by some maester there were 227 valyrian steel weapons in Westeros, some have been lost since so 200 is a rough estimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 That could just be the equivalent of someone talking about buying a farm after the war......immediate death sentence. Presumably the cliffhanger in Ep 10 will be Jon being "killed". Hopefully Melisandre turns up in time to do a Thoros of Myr on him before they burn his body. Yep otherwise it will be a big fuck you to all of us that Jon is really killed by olly even though he survived army of dead, a walker and night king.(Not to mention wildlings, king beyond the wall, climb to wall, arrow by ygritte, fight with the Thenn amd battle at castle black) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2procon Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 They are difficult to kill by regular means, so it's significant that Valyrian steel could kill them because so few things can. Also, Jon and many of the other nobles have Valyrian steel weapons. Yes it is a book thing- in the books Sam does some research through old night's watch records, and finds a description of "dragonsteel" being effective at killing others. They speculate that this might mean Valyrian steel, but it's not confirmed yet in the books. Obviously it's strongly hinted at. In the books, there is also a prophecy involving a "red sword of heroes", and the confirmation about Valyrian steel being the " dragonsteel " they discussed in the books may be another point in favor of the theories of Jon being the fulfilment of this prophecy, although it's very loose. The bottom line is we got confirmation/a spoiler (depending how you look at it) that Jon is equipped to kill white walkers and has an important sword, basically. Throughout the books swords are discussed a lot and seem to hold a lot of significance, not just Jon's sword, but others such as Ice, Oathkeeper, and Dawn. Thanks for the explanation mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2procon Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Valyrian steel was made by old valyrian engineering techniques which lost during the doom of valyria. Valyrian steel is lighter and sharper than normal steel and are very effective during battle because of light weight and can cut through almost anything. Unlike real steel they also have distinctive design and patterns on their blade. Since the doom the valyrian steel manufacturing technique is lost and today there are only a limited number of valyrian steel weapons in the world which are highly prized by individuals and houses that own them. They are also called dragonsteel which eludes that dragonfire might have been used in their manufacturing.If you are more interested search Damascus steel which is real life parallel of valyrian steel, technology of which has also been lost. So its impossible to make them? Just the ones left in the world are the only ones available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 On last count by some maester there were 227 valyrian steel weapons in Westeros, some have been lost since so 200 is a rough estimation.Where can I find this? I was under the impression there were way less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 So its impossible to make them? Just the ones left in the world are the only ones available?Yep. You can rework them i.e melt one to form another but yes new ones cannot be made as technology was lost in the doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Where can I find this? I was under the impression there were way less. A member in one of earlier comments mentioned this exact figure. I remember reading about it in books or somewhere but dont remember exactly ( i thought there were more). He can help you with the source of figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Ok, so there's 200 some in Westeros but only 10 or so are known of. Wish search worked, would like to re-read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Ok, so there's 200 some in Westeros but only 10 or so are known of. Wish search worked, would like to re-read that. Heres the link to wiki which says there are almost 200 weapons of Valyrian steel in Westeros alone. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Valyrian_steel I'll quote you the exact para Although Valyrian steel blades are scarce and costly, several hundred of them are known to exist in the world, approximately two hundred in Westeros alone. Most of them are swords, but there are a few daggers and axes as well. Valyrian steel can be identified by its unusual dusky color, distinctive rippled pattern, and the extreme sharpness of the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Actually, the prevalent argument against was "Valyrian Steel is obvious, so it can't be it". I don't think that is a good argument in this case. There has to be a twist but the twist here is also obvious: Valyrian steel is very rare and the means of manufacture is lost. The secret is how to make dragonsteel, not what dragonsteel is. Now one possibility that remains open is that Valyrian steel is only one possible type of dragonsteel. It might be sufficient to use steel that has been melted by dragonbreath. Oh lookee, that there iron throne is made of swords melted together by Balereon the dread. Another thing, those 227 weapons made of Valyerian steel are not necessarily all swords. Anyone want to face a white walker with the dagger Joffrey gave to the assassin he sent to kill Bran? The only thing to ever come from the show that I would consider a spoiler to the books. The Night's King has only been referenced once in the books and it's impossible to say whether or not he was just created for the show villain. The stuff like Tyrion becoming Dany's hand may be an indication of where the books are heading but obviously it will play out completely differently, if at all, so not really a "spoiler". I think Jojen's death might strengthen "Jojenpaste" but none of the deaths of characters this season that are still alive in the books proves anything. I think that GRRM should just get on with it and have Tyrion and Danny meet. The show has to cut a lot to save on time so the pointless river trip and fake Aegon story is gone. No Jon 'Ret'Con to muddy the waters on Jon's parent. The show has decided to bring the meeting forward, apparently so that they can put Tyrion directly in harms way after Danny goes for her dragon ride. I don't think we will see confirmation that A+J=T but the harpy are bound to throw Tyrion to Danny's dragons, surely. I don't think GRRM is really that deft with his hints. I noticed R+L=J immediately. And that's the one question the show runners had to answer correctly. You are assuming that you are correct. Unlike Valyrian steel which is a reveal of the importance of how to make Valyrian steel, Jon's parentage is the central mystery of the book. What is more, R+L=J is obvious in book 2, yet GRRM introduces Jon RetCon in book 5 to give us an even heavier hint and apparently eliminate R+E=J. And that was written after the D&D dinner at which he asked who Jon's mother is. There are two possibilities. One is that D&D guessed wrong but gave a decent argument that GRRM accepted. That seems rather unlikely to me. The way the story is told it seems that they guessed right. So if D&D guess right, do you think it makes any sense for GRRM to drop yet another clue pointing to R+L = J in book 5? And then give the character the name 'Jon Con', the con about Jon who RetCons Jon. People should stop complaining about the gaping plot holes in episodes that haven't been shown yet and the obviousness of theories that have not been confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Maybe the red sword is just a euphemism for dragon steel. I think there must be more to it than that, because much is made of how the real red sword is supposed to give off heat and light and Stannis's can't be it because it only gives off light. Night's King in the books is a Lord-Commander that took a White Walker for a bride and tried to rule the Night's Watch. This guy could be his son or someone completely unconnected. I doubt GRRM is gonna have someone become immortal and grow horns by being evil. Not really his style. Craster's sons are turned into Others, though (at least supposedly - we get visual confirmation of this in the show but not in the books), so it's hypothetically possible they could make the Night's King one of them. That said, when I heard it, I thought it was just the name they decided to give the leader of the White Walkers behind the scenes and didn't mean he was the same person as the historical figure from the books. But I don't know, he could be. Also, I think the horns are likely to be ornate icicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 There are 227 Valyrian Swords in Westeros, according to TWOIAF. Or maybe there were, some are lost right now. But the number should be above 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm not sure this episode was showing how Dany and Tyrion will interact in the books (if, indeed, they will) so much as setting up Tyrion to take on Ser Barristan's "holding Mereen together while Dany is away" storyline next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Don't understand why 200 something Lords have Valyrian steel swords, but don't make it known. It's a point of pride for your House, why hide it? Also, 200 lesser Houses have one while multiple great Houses don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Don't understand why 200 something Lords have Valyrian steel swords, but don't make it known. It's a point of pride for your House, why hide it? Also, 200 lesser Houses have one while multiple great Houses don't?Well Tywin tried really hard to buy one valyrian steel sword from one of lessor house but he was always rejected and was quite angry about it. Also the point that houses which are great today were not great houses long ago. House Stark is oldest noble house in Westeros which was able to retain its power throughout followed by house lannister and arryn. House stark and lannister are only current great houses which predates andal invasion. Andal invasion completely changed the political landscape and power structure of westeros. House lannister had valyrian steel sword and it was lost fairly recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valandui Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015  To be honest, I was always one of those people who thought that Valyrian steel being the dragon steel was a way too obvious. I know it makes the perfect sense, but it was the option which Jon and Sam brought up immediately, so it's kind of underwhelming it's the real thing. OTOH, there's not that much Valyrian steel and smiths and maesters only know how to remake old Valyrian-steel objects, not how to make new Valyrian steel, so at least there will a shortage, I expect. See, that has always been my position. It seems too obvious, but the issue wasn't it being too simple of an answer. It was always a supply problem. Knowing that valyrian steel can kill them isn't really helpful if there is only one weapon at The Wall. They need to find a way to either get more to The Wall or make more, which may or may not be possible. i have my theories on how that could happen, but that is definitely in crackpot territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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