Bael's Bastard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think it's possible that the Night's Kings isn't the same as the historical figure from the books, but simply the name/title they've chosen for the leader of the Others for whatever reason. The Others are supposed to be intelligent beings, it doesn't seem strange they would have a king of sorts. In the books we may come across their leader in future. Or maybe not, and their organization will always remain obscure. Perhaps. And I don't think it is unlikely or unrealistic for the Others to have a king or leader. I am just skeptical that there will be a Night's King in the modern timeline, since it is an ancient legend which seems to me to come pretty late in the series (book three). But, I admit, I could have missed earlier references than those in ASOS, and it would make more sense to me if Night's King ends up being the same person as other characters we've been told about. Then he would have been mentioned earlier, just by different names, and Night's King would have just been another layer of that person's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Night's King in the books is a Lord-Commander that took a White Walker for a bride and tried to rule the Night's Watch. This guy could be his son or someone completely unconnected. I doubt GRRM is gonna have someone become immortal and grow horns by being evil. Not really his style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane snow Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In the scenes for next week they show Mel looking worried or surprised about something she has scene.. If it's not Jon being stabbed I could see it be Jon killing the white walker and her thinking he has the red sword of heroes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperoreddy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In the scenes for next week they show Mel looking worried or surprised about something she has scene.. If it's not Jon being stabbed I could see it be Jon killing the white walker and her thinking he has the red sword of heroes Could be her asking for Stannis and seeing Jon instead. Might be a reason for her to return to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketsaviour Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In the scenes for next week they show Mel looking worried or surprised about something she has scene.. If it's not Jon being stabbed I could see it be Jon killing the white walker and her thinking he has the red sword of heroes Or maybe she's thinking "Well crap, now he has a magic sword. Oh what's that, there are 227 of those swords in Westeros? Great, just another 226 candidates for the Azor Ahai vacancy to interview..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistress of Lemon Cakes Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 It is speculated that Valyrian Steel might be similar or the same thing as dragon glass in the books by no less than Jon Snow himself. So I really don't see that as much of a spoiler. And we know Dany and Tyrion will meet at some point. The circumstances they meet under will be considerably different, so I wouldn't read too much into their show scenes either. I also feel like the Night's King is a show contraption to give the viewers a more substantial "big evil" to lock on to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree on spoilers, the only real one was the confirmation that the magical swords actually serve a bigger purpose, kind of anti climatic.I think the fact that if the people don't give up their Valerian steel, they will likely die, may be enough incentive for them to give them up and help fight. Rest of the show wasn't really spoilers but was great to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk12344 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In the scenes for next week they show Mel looking worried or surprised about something she has scene.. If it's not Jon being stabbed I could see it be Jon killing the white walker and her thinking he has the red sword of heroes ..or it could just be nothing where Mel turns around to talk to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gash is back Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Wow,soooo, there were so many spoilers in this episode. We are really moving into WOW territory at this point:Tyrion makes it to Dany and gets accepted as her hand, thereby getting new purpose in life.Valyrian steel does in fact kill white walkers, so maybe that means Jon will/does have the red sword of heroes?Hard home is overrun by white walkers, and the night's king is roaming around doing his nights king thing.I know, the show & books are two different animals, BUT we also know that D&D are hitting the major plot points of the books.So, damn. Anyone think these really were spoilers? Who is stopping watching the show at this point?Crazy episode. yup. it's solid spoiler territory from here on in. i really wanted to read the ending in the books first, but i'm just not prepared to wait 5-7 years to read it in the books while futilely trying to avoid spoilers from my friends and the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Wow,soooo, there were so many spoilers in this episode. We are really moving into WOW territory at this point:Tyrion makes it to Dany and gets accepted as her hand, thereby getting new purpose in life.Valyrian steel does in fact kill white walkers, so maybe that means Jon will/does have the red sword of heroes?Hard home is overrun by white walkers, and the night's king is roaming around doing his nights king thing.I know, the show & books are two different animals, BUT we also know that D&D are hitting the major plot points of the books.So, damn. Anyone think these really were spoilers? Who is stopping watching the show at this point?Crazy episode. I don't really think much was spoiled. Valyrian Steel killing Others was practically confirmed already. We hadn't seen it in action and there were some crackpots that Dragonsteel didn't actually refer to Valyrian Steel. But it was a pretty done deal. And that's really only the big thing that was "spoiled". I think the deviations D+D are making from the source material are nicely disguising the real spoilers, so I'm not too worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Night's King in the books is a Lord-Commander that took a White Walker for a bride and tried to rule the Night's Watch. This guy could be his son or someone completely unconnected. I doubt GRRM is gonna have someone become immortal and grow horns by being evil. Not really his style. Excactly. I think this is typical dumbing-down for TV-syndrome. It´s hard to say in the books if the others are truly invading or if they want something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Maverick Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Valyrian steel does in fact kill white walkers The only thing to ever come from the show that I would consider a spoiler to the books. The Night's King has only been referenced once in the books and it's impossible to say whether or not he was just created for the show villain. The stuff like Tyrion becoming Dany's hand may be an indication of where the books are heading but obviously it will play out completely differently, if at all, so not really a "spoiler". I think Jojen's death might strengthen "Jojenpaste" but none of the deaths of characters this season that are still alive in the books proves anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Excactly. I think this is typical dumbing-down for TV-syndrome. It´s hard to say in the books if the others are truly invading or if they want something else. Considering the million times in the books people have mentioned getting south of the wall to protect themselves from the Others and the Stark words themselves I think it's pretty obvious the invasion is coming. Otherwise there is literally no threat and everyone could just sit behind the wall happily. It couldn't be more clear there's an invasion, but GRRM had to buy himself a shit ton of time from the Prologue of Book 1 so it only seems that way since it's been so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxter Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Actually, the prevalent argument against was "Valyrian Steel is obvious, so it can't be it". I don't think GRRM is really that deft with his hints. I noticed R+L=J immediately. And that's the one question the show runners had to answer correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2procon Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hey guys long time reader of the forums but i havent read the books so i dont really mind spoilers in this thread but can someone explain why everyone is talking about valryian steel and its signficance? Is that a book thing? Cause i really couldnt see the importance of it just by watching the show. Why is it so importsnt that it can kill the white walkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Nan Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hey guys long time reader of the forums but i havent read the books so i dont really mind spoilers in this thread but can someone explain why everyone is talking about valryian steel and its signficance? Is that a book thing? Cause i really couldnt see the importance of it just by watching the show. Why is it so importsnt that it can kill the white walkers?They are difficult to kill by regular means, so it's significant that Valyrian steel could kill them because so few things can. Also, Jon and many of the other nobles have Valyrian steel weapons. Yes it is a book thing- in the books Sam does some research through old night's watch records, and finds a description of "dragonsteel" being effective at killing others. They speculate that this might mean Valyrian steel, but it's not confirmed yet in the books. Obviously it's strongly hinted at. In the books, there is also a prophecy involving a "red sword of heroes", and the confirmation about Valyrian steel being the " dragonsteel " they discussed in the books may be another point in favor of the theories of Jon being the fulfilment of this prophecy, although it's very loose. The bottom line is we got confirmation/a spoiler (depending how you look at it) that Jon is equipped to kill white walkers and has an important sword, basically. Throughout the books swords are discussed a lot and seem to hold a lot of significance, not just Jon's sword, but others such as Ice, Oathkeeper, and Dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric of Melnibone Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't think GRRM is really that deft with his hints. I noticed R+L=J immediately. And that's the one question the show runners had to answer correctly. agree once the "dragonsteel" clue was dropped, it was obvious that Mormont giving his VS sword to Jon was an obvious plot device-- this event would have been completely extraneous if there wasn't a clear reason for Jon to have a VS blade to fight the WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Much thanks, I knew it was I guess what you'd consider a decent number. But still, a little over 200 is definitely not enough for everyone. If the Watch even gets those weapons. I can't see people like Harras Harlaw or Caggo giving theirs up.All 200 of those people carrying valyrian steel are badass fighters, and its a stretch right now but yes they can unite for survival of mankind eventually. As show suggested number of walkers are not that many, they command huge and uncountable hoards of wights who do most of their dirty work. So 200 elite fighters surrounded by a great army can do the job of saving mankind. Normal soldiers will be armed with normal weapons and dragonglass and take on wights whereas elite group of valyrian steels fighters will fight others under command of AAR. + dragons and whatever bran is upto, i will give humanity a fighting chance and thats how i see it happening in future.P.s if you will ask me why 200 valyrian steel fighters will be willing to fight, the answer is westeros has warrior and fighting culture and most of these valyrian steel holders are famed fighters and knights and once the fate of humanity is at stake they wont resist joining the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Where is 200 plus people with Valyrian steel swords coming from? Keep reading it on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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