"For the Watch"? (Spoilers)

[nborders]

I'm sure that more people picked up on this, but it seems to me that Olly will be the one that tries to kill Jon when he returns to Castle Black. Sam's speech about "sometimes you have to make hard choices when you know in your heart that it's right", and then they cut straight to Jon.

I think that the rest of the Watch may finally be receptive of the Wildlings when they hear about what happened at Hardhome, only to have Olly be the one to try to kill him.

[jugdesh258]

Most are "all in" with Olly for sure...... but I dont think he is the main protagonist or first to attack.

I think he is the last guy to line up. So to Jon it is ......"et tu olly"

Bowen is cast so he might be first..... Allister still lingering with sour face all the time and did not like Jon from day 1. Perhaps too tempting for D+D not to give him first shot.

[ErasmusF]

Most are "all in" with Olly for sure...... but I dont think he is the main protagonist or first to attack.

I think he is the last guy to line up. So to Jon it is ......"et tu olly"

Bowen is cast so he might be first..... Allister still lingering with sour face all the time and did not like Jon from day 1. Perhaps too tempting for D+D not to give him first shot.

I actually don't see Allister doing it. I think it will be Bowen, the rapers, and Olly. I think Allister runs them off, then gives Jon some I told you so speech as he falls into a coma.

[Masha]

I actually don't see Allister doing it. I think it will be Bowen, the rapers, and Olly. I think Allister runs them off, then gives Jon some I told you so speech as he falls into a coma.

I agree with you about Allister. I don't think he would be part of assassination plot but not sure if he would actually interfere to help out Jon, more likely he would do nothing as he did with Slynt.

Also, Olly is being set up as a main attacker. I don't think rapers would be part of the plot (because it was already done with Mormont), I think they are just a plot device in order for Jon to sent Sam and Gilly away.

Maybe, I would be surprised this time and the obvious suspects - Olly / Thorne would not be part of attack but a red herring, but so far the show didn't prove itself to be subtle at all.

[Reservoir Direwolf]

I can absolutely see Olly being one of the attackers, but I would be shocked if Thorne took part. I know he has a strong dislike for Jon, but he is a man of honor, and I just can't see him giving up that honor in a backstabbing attack on the LC.

[Frimmel]

I'm not convinced they are going to go there with Jon getting stabbed. Except for an episode or two with Dondarion they've more or less dropped all of the other resurection stuff - Brienne, Stoneheart, The Hound.

And they've been beating us over the head with the Olly foreshadowing to the point where it would be more of a surprise if he didn't do it. Why bother with stabbing Jon when no one is going to buy he is going to be permanently dead?

Seems a much more interesting story with Olly overcoming his grief and Jon looking at him as he holds the knife, "If that's what you think you have to do..." is there instead of trying to cliff hang us with something few will find very cliff hangy.

[Tagganaro]

I'm not convinced they are going to go there with Jon getting stabbed. Except for an episode or two with Dondarion they've more or less dropped all of the other resurection stuff - Brienne, Stoneheart, The Hound.

And they've been beating us over the head with the Olly foreshadowing to the point where it would be more of a surprise if he didn't do it. Why bother with stabbing Jon when no one is going to buy he is going to be permanently dead?

Seems a much more interesting story with Olly overcoming his grief and Jon looking at him as he holds the knife, "If that's what you think you have to do..." is there instead of trying to cliff hang us with something few will find very cliff hangy.

Considering it has been said by actors that Episode 10 of this season will "Break the Internet" the Jon stabbing is almost 100% happening. THe only other possibility is Lady Stoneheart. To be honest, with the episode title, I think it's a distant possibility we get both.

But yes, we will 100% be getting a Jon stabbing imo. From what I know of casting, Varamyr was cast for this season. They will go into warg stuff next week. Next year

Elder Brother/Septon Meribald has been cast so I think we will be revisiting the Hound

Bowen Marsh has also been cast. Episode 9 will be all the setup for the Ides to occur. Marsh, Thorne, and Olly will probably the ones to do it. THere has also been setup for a Pink Letter with Ramsay taunting Sansa about Jon and Jon not wanting to write a letter to Roose asking for troops.

[baxter]

I'm not convinced they are going to go there with Jon getting stabbed. Except for an episode or two with Dondarion they've more or less dropped all of the other resurection stuff - Brienne, Stoneheart, The Hound.

And they've been beating us over the head with the Olly foreshadowing to the point where it would be more of a surprise if he didn't do it. Why bother with stabbing Jon when no one is going to buy he is going to be permanently dead?

Seems a much more interesting story with Olly overcoming his grief and Jon looking at him as he holds the knife, "If that's what you think you have to do..." is there instead of trying to cliff hang us with something few will find very cliff hangy.

For one thing, non book readers have no reason to believe Jon wouldn't be dead. Major characters have been killed off over and over and none have reappeared yet. Now I agree with you, it would be a nice twist to see Olly not be the one to do it, to see him drop the knife instead - but then some other brother comes up and stabs Jon. That's how I'd write it. You absolutely do not skip this scene if you B&W. It's the trigger for Jon.

I think many show fans would be shocked if the main character is killed. Especially after we see Dany in immense danger this week, they will be breathing a false sigh of relief for Jon. For the non-book club, You've just seen the hero of the North return from his battle at hard home, find out - most likely via the letter - that Ramsay Bolton is going to come and tear his heart out, and that the King has been killed in battle. The last thing they are going to be thinking is the NW will have a mutiny before he marches to save Stannis/Sansa/Winterfell.

Now what I really hope they do not do is flash back to Beric being revived in the opening scenes - you'll waste the shock value of the mutiny. If they are going to do that they might as well cold open to LSH and Beric. But I'd do that next season, if at all. Leave the audience hanging.

Will be interesting if they bring up warging at all in the next two episodes.

Agree with others, I think Aliser is the red herring - I don't see him stabbing Jon.

[Tarantula]

At the very least, after this episode I no longer believe Edd could be a part of the stabbing. He was there to see what they're really up against, unlike Olly and Marsh. I'm glad Wun Wun made it, though I assume since Jon said nothing about bringing a giant back with him it might just be more fuel for the fire, so to speak.

[kissdbyfire]

Most are "all in" with Olly for sure...... but I dont think he is the main protagonist or first to attack.

I think he is the last guy to line up. So to Jon it is ......"et tu olly"

Bowen is cast so he might be first..... Allister still lingering with sour face all the time and did not like Jon from day 1. Perhaps too tempting for D+D not to give him first shot.

Bowen's been cast but I don't even know what he looks like, he's had what? Zero lines?.

There's zero tension build up at CB. I'm very curious to see how the scene is going to play out.

[robasp2]

Ok now does anyone know if Bowen has been actually cast?

Usually some crazy fan will pick some random dude and call him a character from the books.

Anyway..

This is what I predict.

Windlings inside castle black will walk around with a "suck it crows" attitude.

Bowen will be "Uhh can you beleive it? Ive fighted them all my life and this brainless crows allows them to taunt us"

Allister will say, he leads the wildlings & not the crows.

Olly will listen to all this.

**

Finally when stabbing moment comes, as jon falls to the ground, Olly will tear up. He will take a nearby dagger and stab it through Jons heart. He will pull out his knife and cry the fuck.

[GeorgeIAF]

Ok now does anyone know if Bowen has been actually cast?

Usually some crazy fan will pick some random dude and call him a character from the books.

If i remember correctly, in the 2nd or 3rd episode Jon clearly refers to someone as Bowen Marsh.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20150427143614/gameofthrones/images/a/a8/Marsh_promo.png

[Hol Horse]

Yeah, Olly will most definitely be part of the shanking. But I too don't believe that Thorne will take part. He may have hung out with Janos Slynt, but he's not scummy enough to actually attack/kill a fellow brother. Plus, he wants to be LC, and killing the former one wouldn't help him win over Jon's supporters. That being said, I don't think he'll be sad about Jon's stabbing, but I doubt he'll go around screaming "I told you so."

[jugdesh258]

I recall Bowen's name mentioned ... not gonna rewatch to search but I thought he was one of the guys at the front table complaining when Jon mentions he wants to let the wildlings south of the wall

[Astromech]

Et tu, Olly? It wouldn't surprise me if Olly was merely a red herring. D&D have been beating us over the head with possibility that it would be Olly, but it may just be misdirection. I won't be surprised either way.

[kissdbyfire]

Et tu, Olly? It wouldn't surprise me if Olly was merely a red herring. D&D have been beating us over the head with possibility that it would be Olly, but it may just be misdirection. I won't be surprised either way.

Precisely! That's why this sort of thing is bad television. It's either foreshadowing or misdirection, but it's way too ham-fisted to work.

It's as subtle as a herd of mammoths stomping your head into the ground. And because it's handled so poorly, it won't mean zip either way, so his only purpose is to nod and waste precious time that could have been spent with other things.

[Survivor92]

There are quite some changes from the books that, in my opinion, take away the meaning/shock of the FTW moment and there's a major lack of (good!) foreshadowing as well:

- Jon as a warg has not been established so they cannot distrust/dislike him for being a warg (I guess Varamyr could show up in E9 but that would be terrible last-minute foreshadowing)

- Val is out so they cannot distrust Jon for having a Wildling wife and possibly still breaking his vows (I know this doesn't happen in the books, but the NW might see it that way)

- No foreshadowing from Melisandre about "daggers in the dark". No reactions from Bowen Marsh who's disagreeing with Jon. All we have are 1000+ shots of Olly. And Thorne better not be one of the stabbers because I actually liked his character arc and he's finally starting to gain some respect for Jon in the show.

- Multiple NW men have seen Jon kill an Other and have witnessed that there's some sort of connection between the Night's King and Jon. The Night's King felt the need to walk up to Jon and frighten/impress him, so he definitely sees him as a threat (or ally?).

- Jon is established as a formidable fighter in the show and we know that Valyrian steel can kill Others.

- Jon put Mance out of his misery so he possibly has even more Wildling respect.

- Jon is less involved in politics than in the books (no Cregan, no Melisandre at the wall, Stannis left rather soon, no Alys marriage arranged by Jon, etc.). The Pink Letter might still happen though and will likely be the main reason for FTW in the show.

At this point, it just seems incredibly stupid to assassinate the one guy who killed an Other, is viewed as a threat by the Night's King (or at the very least attracted his attention), has the only Valyrian sword on the Wall and has the total respect of the Wildlings who are already south of the wall (unless this doesn't happen in E9?). It's pretty much suicide and the guaranteed end of the NW to stab him.

In the books I could at least sympathize with the stabbers somewhat. There was also a lot of foreshadowing to the moment itself.

In the show, if Olly stabs Jon that would be way too predictable and not very shocking. If Olly turns out to be a red herring and Bowen Marsh / Alliser Thorne stab Jon, then this would not only be a waste of Thorne's arc in season 5 but it would also come out of the blue with no good foreshadowing (do the show watchers even know who Bowen Marsh is?). We'll probably get Olly but that would be a real waste of the showportrayal of the FTW scene and the events that lead up to it, imo. D&D have really written themselves into a corner and whichever way they go, the FTW scene and its build-up will mostly feel like wasted potential to me.

[WolfgangII]

I do think the show will despict the stabbing. Is just has to much "shock-value" to disregard it. It will probably be the last scene of the season and left the audience hanging. (As a book-reader I think Jon is going to live, either because he never die or warg into Ghost; but I have to admit, he could be also dead in the books).

Olly has been given enough screen-time and backstory to be part of the stabbing. He clearly hates Thormund and he is like Jon's best wilding friend. He would do it and he would be the one who cries and who takes Bowen place. It could be possible that Bowen is also there, but is not going to be the center of the scene, Olly would be.

I don't think Alliser will be part of the stabbing, because he has changed his view about Jon. He is the middle of his character arc and if he participated in the stabbing, all of that is lost and throw away.

[Fez]

The problem with it just being Olly is that even though Jon's being "dead" is a really bad thing. It doesn't break the watch (probably), since its not a mutiny right in Castle Black itself. The rest of the watch would rush up and arrest/kill Olly immediately, and so long as someone, probably Allister, makes it immediately clear to the Wildings that Olly will be punished and that Jon's orders will be respected, I don't see them rampaging either.

If FTW happens, I think its got to be a conspiracy, one that breaks the watch in half immediately and makes it clear to the Wildlings that they aren't safe.

I actually don't see Allister doing it. I think it will be Bowen, the rapers, and Olly. I think Allister runs them off, then gives Jon some I told you so speech as he falls into a coma.

I could definitely see something like that; show-Allister doesn't seem like the backstabbing kind at all.

[ToTheWolves]

I remember hearing before the season started that varamyr had been castes but since then haven't actually seen a confirmation or heard anything about who is playing him.