setoverset Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 maybe yes. but he might be worst since we are witnessing him becoming more and more evil each season. think about it. He kills his brother, his daughter and all for favour from a god he didnt even believe for most of his life. he didnt even see any whitewalkers all he knows is what Mel brainwashed him to know about. he is kind of antihero turning into villain. but i cant forgive him after this even if he flays ramsay and sacrifices himself. I don't know if this is true evil because it's not a purely selfish act (or, at least, it isn't yet defined whether he did this to save the realm or just because he wants to be king). But it's fair to say Stannis is capable of far bigger evils than Joffrey or Ramsay. In order to do true large scale evil, it's not enough to do the evil acts yourself - you have to be able to convince others to do it for you. Joffrey or Ramsay could never do that, but Stannis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Jon_Snow_ Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 But both Sam and Jon confirmed their existence to him and he has every reason to believe them as he respects their backgrounds its another thing to respect someone and another to believe that magic snowmen zombies are coming to kill everyone. What credibility did Stannis have? Because again as I see it, he's just been doing the same thing he's always been doing. He just took it to the next level and proved he was even more hellbent on getting the Iron Throne than we let on, that and he got really desperate. He crossed the line. You cant kill your daughter because you believe a witch. that act is not forgiven by most book readers or show watchers. yes Mel has shown that she can use kings blood to kill people. so what if he kills 1 or 2 boltons. the castle will open and welcome stannis? thats not even smart. he is crazy now thats all that is. mesmerized. Aerys would have thought more before he did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperoreddy Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Stannis believes he has to sit on the throne for the sake of the realm. It is the only way to save the realm from the long night. It was perfectly in character with show Stannis to do this. As for book Stannis I'm not one to believe he would, but then again I'm not sure. I do believe this is Shireen's fate in the books. She is going to get burnt. I don't think D&D made it up that George flat out told them what happens to her. Only question is does Mel do it without Stannis' consent or does Stannis actually order it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Jon_Snow_ Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Stannis believes he has to sit on the throne for the sake of the realm. It is the only way to save the realm from the long night. It was perfectly in character with show Stannis to do this. As for book Stannis I'm not one to believe he would, but then again I'm not sure. I do believe this is Shireen's fate in the books. She is going to get burnt. I don't think D&D made it up that George flat out told them what happens to her. Only question is does Mel do it without Stannis' consent or does Stannis actually order it. probably she will do it in the books to resurect jon though. the only explanation i can get now is this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbringer Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 David Benioff from the 5x09 Inside the Episode on Shireen's burning: "When George first told us about this.""WHEN GEORGE FIRST TOLD US ABOUT THIS."[/quoteIts literally impossible for stannis to do this in the books. Because geography. If it happens it will be Mel and Selyses doing, against Stannis' will. So D@D completely flipped the scene to make Stannis do the bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This was at the instructions of GRRM, Shireen burning was a necesity because Stannis was gathering too many fans, unexpectedly, and when he will die, he/they didn't want a backlash like when Ned and Robb died. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The thing is that's the story of Stannis' life. He's an unlikeable prick who was always a hard headed bastard stuck in his own beliefs with almost no friends. Almost nobody in the realm but Ned wants him to be king. But Stannis thinks people should just bow to him because of succession laws. Stannis has always been more letter of the law is above all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 probably she will do it in the books to resurect jon though. the only explanation i can get now is this. I think she'll do it to resurrect Stannis (who is not actually dead). Prior to receiving the PL Melisandre had been worrying about Stannis, as she couldn't see him in any of her visions and felt he was marching into peril. Then, she gets news that he is dead, believes it, and looks for some way to revive him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setoverset Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 What I will say is that assuming Stannis doesn't get killed off next week, he needs to own this. If he goes full comic book villain the story will be horrible and his death inevitable; but if he stands up and presents himself as being the only man willing to make the sacrifices necessary then he would retain plausibility as the final winner of the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The thing is that's the story of Stannis' life. He's an unlikeable prick who was always a hard headed bastard stuck in his own beliefs with almost no friends. Almost nobody in the realm but Ned wants him to be king. But Stannis thinks people should just bow to him because of succession laws.Stannis has always been more letter of the law is above all. Stannis is the Javert of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Moral event horizon, definitely. Davos put it best with the classic quote: "What is the life of one bastard boy against an entire kingdom?" "Everything." Show-Stannis is a different beast from book-Stannis, to be certain. Book-Stannis might go there, or he might not. But this is the show forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 What would Ned think of Stannis now. How can men follow a King that allows his daughter burned at the stake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Several episodes ago, in that Stannis/Shireen scene where she rushes across to him and hugs him, Stannis takes a very, VERY long time to hug her back. I think I counted some 4-5 seconds, which is an etermity on the screen. He just stands there stiffly, and finally puts his arms around her very carefully, but there is no really genuine emotion as he does so. Alarm bells went off inside me then, because I wondered just how much he really did love his daughter - and whether he would end up sacrificing her because of what Mel wanted. Nicely foreshadowed, D&D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Still a fan. Haters gonna hate. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This is the most likely case. Unless Stannis happened to be right in front of Castle Black when Jon was iced, Mel leaving the room immediately after Jon reads the new of his death seems to say that she's up to something -- looking for a way to save Stannis, and we all know how Mel likes to jump to fire and sacrifices to solve any immediate problem she sees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't know why I am taking this so hard. I've been suspicious the first time they had Stannis-Shireen moment and he didn't punch her in the face while screaming infidel. They ripped away all of his other positive traits, why would they leave something like him being a loving father? Not only that, but going beyond the books and making him seem like a better one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannistician Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 probably she will do it in the books to resurect jon though. the only explanation i can get now is this. This brings up another question, did D & D purposely place this incident before Jon's stabbing so that it "whitewashes" Jon's possible resurrection? If Jon is resurrected by the burning of Shireen in the books, it certainly raises a lot of questions about whether or not its worth it to sacrifice one person for the good of the realm, etc. In show universe, Jon's possibly resurrection if it happens will be seen as completely independent of the Shireen burning - and would put the same question about sacrificing one person for the good of the realm on Stannis. Was making Stannis order the burning and placing it before FTW deliberately done by D & D to sweep away any moral ambiguity regarding Jon's possible resurrection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follmann Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 "I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?""Well, he just set fire to a whole bunch of your stuff.""Damnit. Somebody go fetch my daughter. And some matches." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King in the Narrow Sea Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 If this is truly what will happen in the books, then it's a damn shame, since I liked Stannis. However, the books will no doubt give us a much better reason, build up, and portrayal than this. Stannis burning his daughter after he lost some grain and horses is... well that's a slap in the face to the character. If it were to claim power to destroy the White Walkers or to crush his enemies or to revive a dragon I'd believe it. If the decision came after a lot of pain, after madness and sorrow then I'd believe it. But they didn't offer up a reason here other than that Stannis was afraid of losing, and it was badly done. His men even just stand by and watch their king burn his own daughter. That's screwed up. There's bound to be father's among them. Who would willingly follow a man like that? So basically, even if it happens in the books, they didn't do this scene all that well. They could have shown Stannis slipping more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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