Valonqar theory - Tommen Baratheon?

[VMVD]

As far as I know, the majority believe that Tyrion is the valonqar mentioned in Maggy's prophecy - the one destined to kill Cersei with his bare hands. But knowing GRRM, Tyrion is rather an obvious choice for valonqar, methinks. And Tyrion is half a world away. Who knows when he will return to Westeros? Winter is coming, and the dead are rising. At this point, we can assume that Tyrion is not going to return before Daenerys does, which is still a relatively long time. What with the Harpy's sons and the war with Yunkai and the ironborn on the shores of Slaver's Bay and the fact that Daenerys will in all probability have to go to Asshai before she can sail for Westeros, one can assume that the long night will have long prevailed over the Sunset Kingdoms before she decides to turn west. If the Wall should fall before that, as it most likely will, Cersei will be dead long before Tyrion returns to take his revenge.

A smaller yet relatively large faction believes that Jaime will be the valonqar. Not to be ruled out entirely, but would still be inconsistent with the personality of Jaime Lannister. In AFFC, when he's pondering over what to do with Cersei for her treasons, Ser Ilyn suggests killing her by drawing a finger across his throat, to which Jaime's instinctive response is no. He would not kill the mother of his children and earn their hatred, which would be not only painful for a father but also disadvantageous to the Lannisters since the Tyrells have their claws in Tommen and are not above manipulating his anger toward the Kingslayer for their own benefit. More than anything, though, I do not believe that Jaime has it in him to kill Cersei.

So, where does that leave us with the valonqar?

Think back to the prophecy, when Cersei asks her first question: "When will I wed the prince?" to which Maggy's response is "Never. You will wed the king." Cersei herself had then taken this to mean that she would marry Rhaegar Targaryen only after the death of Aerys II. But as we know by now (and so does Cersei), prophecies are treacherous, as it turned out that it was not Rhaegar she married, but King Robert.

After this she asks about whether she will be queen, to which she gets another vague, confusing answer (to be discussed in another theory). And then she comes to her last question, about her children. To which Maggy replies "oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you." Also something that Cersei did not understand at the time, but know we know that Maggy was referring to the 16 bastards fathered by Robert and the 3 children born to Cersei of Jaime. There, Maggy's prophecy outlined that the king and queen would never have children of their own. Again, something that Cersei did not understand at the time.

The last lines of Maggy's prophecy reads thus: "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Here, at last, we come to the valonqar. In Cersei's nightmares, it is always Tyrion. But as discussed above, it may not be the case.

Going by the assumption that prophecies are all treacherous, the identity of the valonqar can come to us with a little out-of-the-box thinking. It is my reasoning that the valonqar is none other than King Tommen of the House Baratheon (Lannister), the First of His Name.

How so?

When speaking of the valonqar, remember that Maggy is answering Cersei's question about her children. Maggy's answers may be vague and confusing, but they are still precise and to the point when viewed in hindsight. Cersei's death at the hands of one of her brothers is not at all relevant to the question posed by her. Which leads me to believe that neither of her brothers can be the valonqar.

Also, Maggy specifically says THE valonqar, right after mentioning the gold crowns and shrouds of Cersei's children. Not YOUR valonqar. Which can just as easily be taken to mean the little brother, of the children born to Cersei. Which is.... Tommen.

But how shall Tommen kill Cersei, if he is dead and wrapped in a gold shroud? Simple. He will come back as a wight.

The Others are a danger, but they can do nothing so long as the Wall stands in their way. Their power ends there. For winter to truly engulf Westeros, the Wall must fall. And when it does, anyone and everyone who has ever died can be brought back as a wight. Otherwise, the White Walkers are not so big as a threat as they seem. They are vulnerable to fire, obsidian, and perhaps even Valyrian steel. They can be held off at the Wall. The only way to make them formidable is their strength in numbers. Even a few chunks of dragonglass will not be sufficient to stop millions of hordes of wights rising from the dead to fight against the living. And that can happen only if the Wall collapses, which I believe it will.

So, my theory is: Tommen (and even Myrcella) will be dead soon. Winter has already come: the white raven of the Citadel has reached King's Landing with the news (ADWD epilogue). One way or another, both of Cersei's remaining children will die. The Wall will fall. While Cersei sits in the Red Keep mourning her children ("and when your tears have drowned you"), wights will begin rising from the dead everywhere. Tywin, Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen... All those who have died will return as wights. And Tommen being the little brother (valonqar), will strangle the life out of Cersei, thereby fulfilling Maggy's prophecy.

[EternET]

And the "queen more beautiful" = the night's queen ?

[VMVD]

Maybe, maybe not. The "queen more beautiful" could still be Margaery. Or Daenerys. Maybe even Sansa Stark. Does not necessarily have to be one of the Others. But who can say for certain?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Yes he is. I mean, you aren't the first who've thought of him, but you got it right. Jaime still seems to be the people's choice, but Tommen gets progressively more popular a candidate.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Still going with Stannis

[John Suburbs]

Nice work in puzzling it out, OP, and I agree that this is the interpretation that makes the most sense. But unfortunately it is a time-worn theory that's been kicked around on these boards for many years.

[Lord Cadwan]

Still going with Stannis

Finally, someone else who agrees with me. My best contenders for the Valonqar are Tommen, as you explain very well, and Stannis, as the younger brother of the 'King' in the prophecy. The idea of Tommen being a wight when he kills Cersei is a new and very good idea though. I commend you.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Finally, someone else who agrees with me. My best contenders for the Valonqar are Tommen, as you explain very well, and Stannis, as the younger brother of the 'King' in the prophecy. The idea of Tommen being a wight when he kills Cersei is a new and very good idea though. I commend you.

Not that new, actually, I for example have been peddling wight!Tommen for over a year now.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

As far as I know, the majority believe that Tyrion is the valonqar mentioned in Maggy's prophecy - the one destined to kill Cersei with his bare hands. But knowing GRRM, Tyrion is rather an obvious choice for valonqar, methinks. And Tyrion is half a world away. Who knows when he will return to Westeros? Winter is coming, and the dead are rising. At this point, we can assume that Tyrion is not going to return before Daenerys does, which is still a relatively long time. What with the Harpy's sons and the war with Yunkai and the ironborn on the shores of Slaver's Bay and the fact that Daenerys will in all probability have to go to Asshai before she can sail for Westeros, one can assume that the long night will have long prevailed over the Sunset Kingdoms before she decides to turn west. If the Wall should fall before that, as it most likely will, Cersei will be dead long before Tyrion returns to take his revenge.

A smaller yet relatively large faction believes that Jaime will be the valonqar. Not to be ruled out entirely, but would still be inconsistent with the personality of Jaime Lannister. In AFFC, when he's pondering over what to do with Cersei for her treasons, Ser Ilyn suggests killing her by drawing a finger across his throat, to which Jaime's instinctive response is no. He would not kill the mother of his children and earn their hatred, which would be not only painful for a father but also disadvantageous to the Lannisters since the Tyrells have their claws in Tommen and are not above manipulating his anger toward the Kingslayer for their own benefit. More than anything, though, I do not believe that Jaime has it in him to kill Cersei.

So, where does that leave us with the valonqar?

Think back to the prophecy, when Cersei asks her first question: "When will I wed the prince?" to which Maggy's response is "Never. You will wed the king." Cersei herself had then taken this to mean that she would marry Rhaegar Targaryen only after the death of Aerys II. But as we know by now (and so does Cersei), prophecies are treacherous, as it turned out that it was not Rhaegar she married, but King Robert.

After this she asks about whether she will be queen, to which she gets another vague, confusing answer (to be discussed in another theory). And then she comes to her last question, about her children. To which Maggy replies "oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you." Also something that Cersei did not understand at the time, but know we know that Maggy was referring to the 16 bastards fathered by Robert and the 3 children born to Cersei of Jaime. There, Maggy's prophecy outlined that the king and queen would never have children of their own. Again, something that Cersei did not understand at the time.

The last lines of Maggy's prophecy reads thus: "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Here, at last, we come to the valonqar. In Cersei's nightmares, it is always Tyrion. But as discussed above, it may not be the case.

Going by the assumption that prophecies are all treacherous, the identity of the valonqar can come to us with a little out-of-the-box thinking. It is my reasoning that the valonqar is none other than King Tommen of the House Baratheon (Lannister), the First of His Name.

How so?

When speaking of the valonqar, remember that Maggy is answering Cersei's question about her children. Maggy's answers may be vague and confusing, but they are still precise and to the point when viewed in hindsight. Cersei's death at the hands of one of her brothers is not at all relevant to the question posed by her. Which leads me to believe that neither of her brothers can be the valonqar.

Also, Maggy specifically says THE valonqar, right after mentioning the gold crowns and shrouds of Cersei's children. Not YOUR valonqar. Which can just as easily be taken to mean the little brother, of the children born to Cersei. Which is.... Tommen.

But how shall Tommen kill Cersei, if he is dead and wrapped in a gold shroud? Simple. He will come back as a wight.

The Others are a danger, but they can do nothing so long as the Wall stands in their way. Their power ends there. For winter to truly engulf Westeros, the Wall must fall. And when it does, anyone and everyone who has ever died can be brought back as a wight. Otherwise, the White Walkers are not so big as a threat as they seem. They are vulnerable to fire, obsidian, and perhaps even Valyrian steel. They can be held off at the Wall. The only way to make them formidable is their strength in numbers. Even a few chunks of dragonglass will not be sufficient to stop millions of hordes of wights rising from the dead to fight against the living. And that can happen only if the Wall collapses, which I believe it will.

So, my theory is: Tommen (and even Myrcella) will be dead soon. Winter has already come: the white raven of the Citadel has reached King's Landing with the news (ADWD epilogue). One way or another, both of Cersei's remaining children will die. The Wall will fall. While Cersei sits in the Red Keep mourning her children ("and when your tears have drowned you"), wights will begin rising from the dead everywhere. Tywin, Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen... All those who have died will return as wights. And Tommen being the little brother (valonqar), will strangle the life out of Cersei, thereby fulfilling Maggy's prophecy.

Someone posted this yesterday. I think Tommen as the valonqar is possible if he dies and comes back as a wight. Its as valid as any other speculation and more valid than some.

[VMVD]

I didn't expect to be the first one to come up with this. But I joined the forum only today, and this was the first theory that came to mind, so I posted it :)

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

If Tommen comes back as a wight, how would he have a gold shroud.

The Wights seem to come back pretty soon, not wait around long enough to have a viewing/ funeral.

[Nights Kings Queen]

I'm on board with this. An interesting fact, the first wight we ever saw strangled someone to death. Like the very first time.

Still going with Stannis

He burns people alive. He would burn Cersei alive, not strangle her.

[Balerion the kitten]

Daenerys won't go to asshai.

He wouldn't tell us a prophecy so he could tell us the answer right after.

[Balerion the kitten]

But I like the theory.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I'm on board with this. An interesting fact, the first wight we ever saw strangled someone to death. Like the very first time.He burns people alive. He would burn Cersei alive, not strangle her.

He burns people alive after the battle is won and they are his prisoner.

What if its in the heat of battle? What if it is just after Cersie has unleashed the wildfyre on the capitol?

[A horsefaced girl]

I think Tommen is a viable bet for the valonqar, but not as a wight, and there are a few things in your argument that I don't think fit.

First you say that you don't think Jaime would do it because he wouldn't want to do that to his children but then later you say that they are going to be dead, so that disqualifies your earlier argument against Jaime as Valonqar. Another thing you said was that the prophesy said that the Valonqar has to strangle Cersei with their bare hands, I would argue that the prophecy isn't that specific. In the story there are other types of "hands", the golden chain of hands, and the hand of the king.

[LordImp]

can people who have been dead for a while , like Robert be raised as a wight ?

[LordImp]

can people who have been dead for a while , like Tywin be raised as a wight ?

[A horsefaced girl]

After everything she has done and all the people she's killed or ruined the lives of, in the end Cersei is killed by the Others? That would be very unsatisfactory to me. I feel like the prophecy means more than just, no matter what you do it doesn't matter because someday the Others will come and one of their wights are going to kill you, and by the way the wight is going to be the little brother. I don't like it.

[Nights Kings Queen]

He burns people alive after the battle is won and they are his prisoner.

What if its in the heat of battle? What if it is just after Cersie has unleashed the wildfyre on the capitol?

The thing is strangling someone is murder. It's not really kings justice it's murder. Stannis would kill her with a sword if he had to. Strangling doesn't seem stannisay.