Boarders Writing A Novel: Part 13

[C.T. Phipps]

Whilst they are individuated, aliens should be different. Andalites are herbivores so their instincts are probably quite different from ours; they probably play different from us.

It's been a while since I was writing Animorphs fanfiction.

 

Yeah, the problem is if they're too different it would hurt the drama to be from their perspective, IMHO.

[voodooqueen126]

 

Yeah, the problem is if they're too different it would hurt the drama to be from their perspective, IMHO.

i agree, I would find it quite difficult to write from the perspective of a crystalline based starfish alien (anyone read the Eliezer Yudowsky??? story about the baby eating aliens and then these aliens come along who experience orgasms 24/7 and think humans are as badly off as the baby eaters). But Andalites, because they were mammals and herd animals are alot easier to write about.

Of course, I lived on a farm at the time, so I had more opportunities to observe cattle (and our neighbours horses and sheep).

[Jacques the Japer]

How could something with a 24/7 orgasm even function, or be wowed by anything?

 

On a more serious note, how would one handle a world where POV characters speak different languages, and meet each other for the first time?

 

GRRM artfully dodges this by having characters which can understand High Valyrian or the Common Tongue,, (Though why Ghiscari would bother learning the language of their erstwhile enemy is a mystery). It would be rather a push for the characters to learn entirely new languages in the short times my plot requires, considering no tall of them have above average levels of intellect and learning capacity like many authors like to give their heroes

[EruditeFool]

Just for interest sake, have any of you here formally published some of your work?, and has it gotten any form of critic acclaim or at least a cult following of a readership?

 

Yes, I have published.  My readership does not extend very far, yet.  Reviews I've had of the first one range from "slightly above average" to "good, but not great".

 

I've been too busy working on my second book (almost done with the third draft) and the unrelated third book (done with the first draft) to do any serious advertising.  I wouldn't know where to start with that anyway.   :hat:

[Jacques the Japer]

As someone whose extent into the literary world is still a 20k Microsoft word document, feel free to clap yourself on the back erudite :cheers:, you've achieved something a lot of people never will, seeing my work reviewed would make my year!

 

Anyone willing to mention their published titles? 

[HexMachina]

As someone whose extent into the literary world is still a 20k Microsoft word document, feel free to clap yourself on the back erudite :cheers:, you've achieved something a lot of people never will, seeing my work reviewed would make my year!
 
Anyone willing to mention their published titles?

You should probably read this thread http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/120973-official-blatant-but-honest-self-promotion-thread/ if you are interested in that.

[SpaceChampion]

On a more serious note, how would one handle a world where POV characters speak different languages, and meet each other for the first time?

 

You handle it like you would anything else in fiction: you give your characters motivations.

 

Horny foreign adventurer meets beautiful culturally sophisticated local woman is a common trope.  He learns her language and flirts at the same time.

[Selysin]

 

On a more serious note, how would one handle a world where POV characters speak different languages, and meet each other for the first time?

Have a look at Nation by Terry Pratchett. I haven't read it in a while but I believe the characters relied quite heavily on body language and the handful of words that they learnt off one another by pointing and repeating the name. Of course, they were talking about relatively simple things like food and shelter, the same techniques might not work for something more complex.

[Aniel]

How could something with a 24/7 orgasm even function, or be wowed by anything?

 

On a more serious note, how would one handle a world where POV characters speak different languages, and meet each other for the first time?

 

GRRM artfully dodges this by having characters which can understand High Valyrian or the Common Tongue,, (Though why Ghiscari would bother learning the language of their erstwhile enemy is a mystery). It would be rather a push for the characters to learn entirely new languages in the short times my plot requires, considering no tall of them have above average levels of intellect and learning capacity like many authors like to give their heroes

 

 

Is one of them bilingual?

 

 

You handle it like you would anything else in fiction: you give your characters motivations.

 

Horny foreign adventurer meets beautiful culturally sophisticated local woman is a common trope.  He learns her language and flirts at the same time.

 

I've got such a ridiculously diverse cast of main characters that I had to make a list of all the languages they speak. Other than Elvish I'll name the others for where they're spoken (for simplicity's sake, my "common tongue" isn't even called common). Elvish and Western are closely related, with most speakers of Elvish understanding bits and pieces of Western without much issue, like how the Scandinavian countries (except Finland) understand each other. Elvish also fills the role of Latin in the West and South.

 

Character 1 speaks only Elvish in the beginning, but spends a full year in the East and learns Eastern during that time. She understands a bit of Western and becomes fluent later in the story as much of it takes place in the West.

Character 2 grew up in the east, in a nation built on slavery. Due to this, he's quadrilingual, growing up speaking 2 languages and acquiring the other two somewhat later. So he speaks Eastern and Elvish fluently, Southeastern and Western somewhat less so.

Character 3 is a Western Noble, fluent in Western and Elvish, and able to communicate verbally in Southern.

Character 4 is Western, and only speaks Western.

Character 5 is a Western commoner, and only speaks Western. She will learn Elvish.

Character 6 is Elven, and speaks Elvish and Western.

Character 7 is Western, she has studied Elvish and some Dwarvish.

Character 8 is Western. He only speaks Western.

Character 9 is Southern. Due to her line of work, she has learned Elvish and a bit Western.

 

They all meet at various points of the story. The only ones who will have any major problems communicating are 5 and 9, who ironically are the most isolated from the others in the beginning, and 9 can mostly only say things related to her profession and courtesy phrases.

 

As for how I handle it, Elvish and Eastern - the two languages spoken the most that aren't Western - are written out when spoken around characters who don't speak those languages, in a reasonable amount at least. Otherwise, everything's just written in plain English except for names and such. If a word a character is unfamiliar with pops up, then they can either ask about it or figure it out by themselves from context. Just the other day I figured out how to say 5 in Arabic because my colleague was saying it over and over again, and I knew he was saying model numbers. It was the highlight of my week XD

[Myrddin]

I hate the term "common tongue", even though I understand how it benefits the story. It's an easy short cut. If it's common language, think through the why.

 

Easy reasons:

• Language of scholars (ala Latin, Greek, or Arabic)
• Language of dominating empire/kingdom which exports its culture as well as economic/military influence (like English)
• Language of merchants (which could just be an extension of above or think Mandarin in the future) 
• Language of extinct empire that colonized a large portion of the world (like French, Spanish or English, or again Latin)
• Make languages come from a common root so the current incarnations/variations are so similar that people can mostly understand each other (Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian)

Pick a reason for it to exist, determine how widespread it is and who would know it, and please just give it a damn name. Don't just call it "common." :)

[Magnar of Skagos]

I hate the term "common tongue", even though I understand how it benefits the story. It's an easy short cut. If it's common language, think through the why.

 

Easy reasons:

• Language of scholars (ala Latin, Greek, or Arabic)
• Language of dominating empire/kingdom which exports its culture as well as economic/military influence (like English)
• Language of merchants (which could just be an extension of above or think Mandarin in the future) 
• Language of extinct empire that colonized a large portion of the world (like French, Spanish or English, or again Latin)
• Make languages come from a common root so the current incarnations/variations are so similar that people can mostly understand each other (Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian)

Pick a reason for it to exist, determine how widespread it is and who would know it, and please just give it a damn name. Don't just call it "common." :)

This. This, This. There needs to be some logic to how people can understand each other. For example, in my fantasy project, I am writing a period very early in human history. The central culture is a seafaring one, formed only 4 centuries ago by people from two different language groups who settled there. Their language has developed into a separate dialect, however their frequent trade and interaction over the centuries with the two countries they originated from has kept them from drifting too far apart, despite being geographically displaced from their "parent cultures".

[SpaceChampion]

Yes, common tongues are especially annoying when there is zero indication of thousands of other languages a world should have that makes a common tongue necessary.

[Aniel]

I hate the term "common tongue", even though I understand how it benefits the story. It's an easy short cut. If it's common language, think through the why.

 

Easy reasons:

• Language of scholars (ala Latin, Greek, or Arabic)
• Language of dominating empire/kingdom which exports its culture as well as economic/military influence (like English)
• Language of merchants (which could just be an extension of above or think Mandarin in the future) 
• Language of extinct empire that colonized a large portion of the world (like French, Spanish or English, or again Latin)
• Make languages come from a common root so the current incarnations/variations are so similar that people can mostly understand each other (Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian)

Pick a reason for it to exist, determine how widespread it is and who would know it, and please just give it a damn name. Don't just call it "common." :)

 

This. This, This. There needs to be some logic to how people can understand each other. For example, in my fantasy project, I am writing a period very early in human history. The central culture is a seafaring one, formed only 4 centuries ago by people from two different language groups who settled there. Their language has developed into a separate dialect, however their frequent trade and interaction over the centuries with the two countries they originated from has kept them from drifting too far apart, despite being geographically displaced from their "parent cultures".

 

Yes, common tongues are especially annoying when there is zero indication of thousands of other languages a world should have that makes a common tongue necessary.

 

To clarify, I only referred to Western as "common" as it's the most widespread (as a first language) :) I've never actually considered calling it "common tongue" myself.

 

Truthfully in its current form it's a blend of "modern" Elvish and a group of languages ultimately derived from older Elvish, Dwarvish and several other (now extinct) languages from the area. It was homogenized about 3000 years ago due to necessity, with Elvish taking a lead as the Elves were that times superpower.

 

Its actual name is Rhadakh. (yes, the H's are there for a reason... :P)

[Myrddin]

I wasn't signaling out you (or anyone here), Aniel. The common tongue fix is leveraged by countless writers, including Martin, Jordan, and all the D&D worlds I believe. Star Wars also, with its Basic.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Got an email from Inspired Quill asking for my full novel! :D

[Zoë Sumra]

Yay!

In short story news, Uncanny Magazine is open to short story subs till December:
http://uncannymagazine.com/submissions/

[Aniel]

I wasn't signaling out you (or anyone here), Aniel. The common tongue fix is leveraged by countless writers, including Martin, Jordan, and all the D&D worlds I believe. Star Wars also, with its Basic.

 

I know, I know. I was the one who mentioned it though so I thought I would reply :) I find having a language simply called common rather uninspired myself, and I wish I could have more languages in my story, but if I tried I would probably end up taking another 10 years just to finish the first book.

[Magnar of Skagos]

Yay!

In short story news, Uncanny Magazine is open to short story subs till December:
http://uncannymagazine.com/submissions/

Thanks for the heads up. Been reading a lot of short stories lately and this may be a good motivator to try my hand at it.

[SpaceChampion]

That's a good sign, Derfel, good luck with the submission.

 

 

To my mind I can't imagine spending a lot of time inventing languages unless I was a philologist like Tolkien, or conlanger like David Peterson.  They set a standard I couldn't hope to achieve.  Of course I can't imagine writing elves and dwarves in the same world either, there's just too many stories that do that already.  Why not invent some new species?

[Magnar of Skagos]

Got an email from Inspired Quill asking for my full novel! :D

What is Inspired Quill, if you don't mind my asking? :P