I'm sorry, but they really blew the Drogon scene (book spoilers)

[jbob]

The Sons of the Harpy in the show are the stuff of unintentional comedy. They are basically killer terminators who can defeat any opponent, armed only with daggers. Not to mention there's a billion of them at any given time and they can apparently just magically appear out of nowhere in massive numbers.

D&D just don't really understand or care about these greater issues though. It just sounds neato in their head.

It's easy to defeat any opponent if you have the numbers on your side. 5 men fighting against Gregor would've killed him easily. No amount of skill or strength is going to defeat greater numbers, I don't care who it is.

As to being a lot of them. Maybe, Meereen is a big place. Easy to recruit a lot of people.

[Nictarion]

Meereen is definitely supposed to be a massive city. Larger than Astapor and Yunkai combined.

[RSasoiaf]

Well....

You have a problem when my unsullied friends ask:

"Didnt she have a good army?"

"cant she have more safety on a big arena full of people?"

People....hello!!!! All through human history, there have been plenty of sports events during complicated times.

No regime or ruller ever failed to recognize the dangers and to deal in a way that nothing really big could happen.

Danny´s regime deserves to go down!!!

They cant even have a gladiator fight without being surrounded....and having their ruller being saved by an unexpected gladiator.....yeahhhhh she would be dead now if it was for her own people.

[Lord Freypie]

I don't think the scene by itself was bad. The whole show!Mereen arc was.

Basically book!Mereen is about the difficulty to make peace, the concessions required, and, when peace was finally achieved, the possibility peace wasn't after all even the good choice. Peace being also social peace there.

They just failed to translate correctly those elements.

For example show!Dany don't make the concession to marry Hizdar after a promise of peace and some proof it could work, she force him to wed her with no idea if it could (and also it's probably just a faked marriage, not a consummated union making her make the sacrifice of her relationship with Daario and that make it a bit pointless in showing how far she's ready to go).

In addition, I'm sorry but making the Sons break the peace is the worst idea ever, completely betraying the purpose of this arc. If the peace was impossible because Dany enemies were just mindless terrorists, she just looks stupid, it make all the morale questions about "have I gone too far in my concessions to slavers I'm not sure" pointless. As she has gone too far because they were ninja fanatic killers not a political force she had any chance to find an agreement with it completely removed all the moral ambiguity.

That forgoten (no I can't, but let's try), I'd say the pit scene is not completely bad, because it at least keeps Dany disgusted reactions to the pit fights, and a Dany saving Drogon element (Drogon is injured, Dany prefers to make him fly than to protect people like Daario making the dragon stay to fight) if they also make Drogon save Dany. So I'd say it's a little less story betrayal than the rest of the arc.

[wolverine]

Agree with some but disagree with some as well.

1. I think it is believable that everyone might be distracted by a huge flying man killing beastly fantastical creature that was thought to be extinct for 97% of each person's life. A creature that is humongous and breathes fire. A beast that many there had not seen ever or in a while (the good guys). A beast that is very unpredictable. I'd say it would be akin to a T-Rex walking into a battlefield.

2. I think they wanted to convey that Dany was comfortable on Drogon. This was her dragon that she thought had abandoned her. He not only has returned, but he saved her and is now letting her ride him, something that she has heard about happening in stories. I buy that she could look happy instead of afraid.

I agree with this. The look almost seemed like she would have been ok dying because she got to see her baby again and he came to protect her.

I understand lots of the criticisms of this scene, but I liked it for the most part.

[Jon Snow Bengal]

I agree that it was weird that they all stopped fighting. I absolutely think they would've stopped fighting due to the shock of seeing the dragon but only for a split second and not for as long as they did. I was on my lounge shouting at Jorah/Daario etc "Kill them! Kill them now!".

Also weird that afterwards the four were left in the middle of the arena gazing up at the sky in awe with SOTH all around. So we are supposed to believe the SOTH just dropped their weapons & went off to the pub for a pint? That they didn't care about killing the queens advisors & protectors & eliminate any supporters in the city so she didn't come back?

One more thing- I was disappointed that Dany rode side-saddle. It's like D & D are deliberately toning down the strength of GRRMs female characters & make them into these whimsical creatures. Even the female wildling chief from Hardhome, fought like a true warrior (because thats what she is) until faced with WW children & lost it emotionally like a 'typical' woman. They even used the "think of your children" card to win the female wildling chief over when discussing whether to move south or not - it's so bad & makes me sick.

[CerseiStark]

I agree that it was weird that they all stopped fighting. I absolutely think they would've stopped fighting due to the shock of seeing the dragon but only for a split second and not for as long as they did. I was on my lounge shouting at Jorah/Daario etc "Kill them! Kill them now!".

Deer in headlights.

[Neds Secret]

Some of these critiques are valid, but I would attribute most of the scene's shortcomings to budget. D&D haven't made good choices this season, but Drogon's scene was done well enough.

I do think a huge, fire breathing dragon is enough to make people forget what they are doing. However, why Dany doesn't have a much bigger protection squad eludes me.

I am sure they had huge budget issues for a lot of reasons.

Trying to cut the bloat out of this story is bound to create a set of unsolvable problems.

I do think it is obvious that Drogon, while maturing, is still young. To have to take off while wounded with Dany on his back for the first time was quite believably a challenge. There were a lot of holes in him and the scene; however, Dany leaving everyone else behind in order to save Drogon is both believable and justifiable. I agree with whomever posted that the guys left on the ground had to be heaving a sigh of relief that they didn't have to protect her.

The sons of the harpy are big time cowards, so it is believable that they would freeze. It is also believable that they would try to take out the dragon first as Drogon is the main impediment to getting at Dany. Not to mention that many of them might fear the magic Dany/Drogon represents enough to make them hesitate, especially when it appears that Drogon is there to rescue his mother.

There are a lot of weak points in most episodes this season. They tried to do too much, too fast. D&D might just be tired and unable to digest the totality of the project. Although I am not fond of them, I don't think they want to sink their own project.

There is simply too much material and too many complications in this narrative. I don't even care to check what is book canon versus show canon. It is all too tedious.

I did notice one line lifted from "Troy" and dropped into the Stannis scene: the northerners know their land better than we ever will, etc.

I think the totality of this narrative is just too much for any human being to sort through, with or without help.

As a result, fans of book and show are reduced to writing their own versions in their individual heads. While this process is fascinating in itself, it remains hugely frustrating for all of us who are hooked on the story and/or characters.

Waiting and waiting and waiting for resolution has made everyone with a certain level of investment reduced to arguing endlessly over trivia, thereby losing the woods for the trees.

I couldn't have said it better myself

[hallam]

Still plugging away?

The only unreal thing in the sequence isn't the pause in the fighting, it is that the Harpy don't run away.

The Harpy is Mereen's 1%. They specialize in cowardly knife attacks in dark alleys. They fight behind masks.

Getting soldiers to kill people on order is a very difficult task which is why training and discipline are so important. Without it they run away or fire in the air.

[boojam]

It's easy to defeat any opponent if you have the numbers on your side. 5 men fighting against Gregor would've killed him easily. No amount of skill or strength is going to defeat greater numbers, I don't care who it is.

You should go into film directing and dispel thousands of Hollywood clichés.

[boojam]

Watching again some things that were really good CGI:

The helicopter shot of the stadium, lots of detail very Coliseum , should be renamed Daznak's Stadium.

Lots of things I liked:

Drogon's 'fire ball' entrance. Clever.

The hover glide against the massive structure of the Pit in the background.

The landing, Drogon doing a snap dragon on the guy charging Dany, he lunges fast!

That guy kinda comes apart.

I like the way Drogon does the rotating flame thrower sweep.

A pull back long shot as Drogon gets the second group.

That must have cost.

Seems there is collateral damage in that discharge.

After one guy gigs him with a spear , then it's full flame into the camera, cool.

More collateral damage, some Meereeneese masters where in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Some more limb to limb wrecking by Drogon.

Dany gets upset when he takes two spears.

Dany pulls out one spear (this is similar to the book).

Drogon is so berserkergang he turns on Dany.

But holds his fire, Dany stares him down, that is similar to the book, 'cept she has the whip (at this point in the novel he singes her, but she catches her reflection in Drogon's eye).

Here Drogon goes all googly eyes at his mom.

Someone gigs him again with a spear.

(Twice this season Dany has tried to stroke his snout and can't make it.)

Dany is concerned for Drogon's well being and makes a choice to get him out of there. (Can see it in her face and her concentration.)

She climbs on him.*

Alas this is done with one foot going up and then cut away.

We see her grabbing a dragon spike. Kind a funny looks like she's thinking , er..., I am supposed to sit this prickly pear!

Amusing.

A beat.

Emilia sitting on a prop? She does not seem to be CGI'ed onto a 'green' banana.

Danny says "Valahd".

(All Valyrian Dragons understand Valyrian!)

(I have to say the old Hollywood ruse is in play, why are SoH holding back? Yeah I know Dragon sign.)

Still, o well.

Look closely , Drogon eyes tell you he heard her. Cool.

Drogon does a head shake, like , OK!, cool!

A neck spear flys off.

Notice a tear in one of Drogon's wings? (From the book too.)

Drogon's gooney bird take off, cool!

He plows forward.

Awkward shot of Dany looking backward, this should have been a pull back.(Alas budget.)

Then, O Man!, a 'helicopter shot' of Drogon and Dany about to launch. This is an expensive well composed shot.

(This is a great shot , can see Dany on Drogon's back.)

Cut to a little awkward close shot of Dany bare backing it.

The launch is great! Drogon sings!

Very cool , but little awkward shots of Dany and Drogon yawing over the Pit.

Then, is Dany wearing Dothraki leathers under her gown? , how would she know that!

Then composites that , given more budget could have been done better.

Finally a Valyrian (well as close as you can get) dragon riding , after hundreds of years!

You know as CGI VFX , not bad.

*Read an article that Emilia did some 'riding' on a green 'bronk' prop, at the location in Spain, that seems a little dangerous for a show star under contract. There had to be some studio green screen work... will be interesting to see the CGI making of feature.

[grufolo]

I sadly agree that the whole scene looks like it was poorly assembled.

Whether it was the writing, the shooting or more of an editing issue i don't know.

For sure the high point was Jorah throwing the spear and getting back to Dann's graces, while the worst point was D. slowly walking through the mess where everyone ignored her to mount Drogon. That was pretty bad.

I also disliked the SotH staying still for the roasting when a quite undynamic Drogon took his time to make them flambé, but also SotH killing bystanders was really really weird. why would they do that instead of rush the Queen, it's not given to understand.

I only enjoyed the scene because it was a nice break from the burning that preceded it. And i'm glad Hizdar's gone.

[boojam]

One more thing- I was disappointed that Dany rode side-saddle. It's like D & D are deliberately toning down the strength of GRRMs female characters & make them into these whimsical creatures. Even the female wildling chief from Hardhome, fought like a true warrior (because thats what she is) until faced with WW children & lost it emotionally like a 'typical' woman. They even used the "think of your children" card to win the female wildling chief over when discussing whether to move south or not - it's so bad & makes me sick.

She's not riding 'side saddle' she totally 'bare back' riding, as prickly as that may have been.

I guess the Valyrian Dragon Masters first rode dragons this way.

[boojam]

Was wondering about the Harpys who were left.

I notice in the last long shot, a helicopter shot, there is only a small group of figures left , if you subtract the four team Dany (I am counting Unsullied too, yes there are some left) , there are maybe 5 or 6 (or less) Harpys directly in the take off path, in the ground shot they are all doing the run-away-run-away thing. Seemingly no SoH were left in the arena after she exited.

[RoamingRonin]

I always imagined her riding Drogon like one of those rodeo bulls. The way GRRM wrote it (slightly sexualized, of course) made it seem like she was upright, her legs locked around his neck.

EDIT: Some said Drogon looked small on the show. I thought he was bigger than he was supposed to be in the books. 20 foot wingspan doesn't seem big.

[Numantia]

When I first saw the scene I was also disappointed for the result. It wasn't as impressive as I expected (I hoped for a "Dracarys"-like moment) but it was imposible to connect with the scene. It was ok, but not great.

After, I watched the scene several times the "Drogon" clip and I don't feel that the problem was there. The special effects could had been better, yes, but they are more than ok for a TV show, and I feel that the dragon interaction with Daenerys, and the SOH were ok.

I think that the problem during the chapter was that somehow the moment didn't transmit terror or danger in Daenerys and their people... It was somehow ridiculous/funny, intended to be too much orchestrated but not done well. People running on the sets, SOH everywhere but not attacking, few unsullied, Danny jumping to the arena and Jorah and Dario seems the only ones able to kill one by one each SOH...

It was a pity that a moment such as Drogon apearance and Dannys flight on him, which would have been impresive in the same way as it is, was completely destroyed by the previous moments of the supposed "panic" in the pit.

If the would have been able to create that feeling of danger previously, we would probably be talking now of how nicely was solved the Drogon+Danny first flight.

[robasp2]

:agree:

Drogon's entry was epic. His initial violence was really good too. I'm no targ loyalist but I was cheering.

I expected the madness and violence to continue...

Instead it simmered down instantly. From there it was downhill.

The director was horrible. He failed to bring about the action and excitement after that.

He could have learnt how to do it from hardhome.

What pissed me off was the post @ GoT facebook page on how complex it was and how they aced it.

WTF?

[Jon Snow Bengal]

She's not riding 'side saddle' she totally 'bare back' riding, as prickly as that may have been.

I guess the Valyrian Dragon Masters first rode dragons this way.

Okay she doesn't have a saddle but she is definitely riding side-saddle style. She should be able to take the pricks- she's going to need the practice if she's ever going to sit on the iron throne. She's a Khaleessi! She should ride like a Khaleessi whether she's riding a dragon or horse.

There were some great things about the scene too & Boojam sums it up nicely.

I also like the way that Dany runs into the arena, just the fear & confusion depicted in her gait made me cry :)

[boojam]

Okay she doesn't have a saddle but she is definitely riding side-saddle style. She should be able to take the pricks- she's going to need the practice if she's ever going to sit on the iron throne. She's a Khaleessi! She should ride like a Khaleessi whether she's riding a dragon or horse.

There were some great things about the scene too & Boojam sums it up nicely.

I also like the way that Dany runs into the arena, just the fear & confusion depicted in her gait made me cry :)

To me 'side-saddle' means riding with both legs on one side of the saddle or bare back (have seen bare back side saddle but it's very rare).

She is 'astride' with both legs over his spine.

It amusing that Dany (or was it Emilia) does a very quick double take when she sees his spikey spine!

Like "I'm supposed throw my leg over that?!"

Twice you see her faux Dothraki 'riding breeches' and her boots, but she always wears those boots.

[Borodin]

Problems with the scene.

1. Daenerys is virtually unprotected at a public event with tens of thousands of potential assassins.

2. Jorah McGreyscale touches Daenerys.

3. SotH surround Daenerys and then do some kind of shuffle dance for 10 minutes.

4. A massive dragon decends from the sky breathing fire and the SotH wait for it to land in order to engage it in combat rather than flee liek human beings do and plan for another day.

5. Daenerys' escape gives us the worst FX of the entire series thus far.