Interesting New Stuff from George

[Lady Blackmont]

That would worry me, but hopefully he will have the kindness to not leave us any unresolved cliffhangers if so. I would cry.

And, for me anyway, the show is not the books. The themes are not the same, the people are not the same, the minor characters that we know and love are missing or changed.

I think George has enough respect for us to work on finishing the saga. It would say a lot about him as a person.

[BlueDragon]

Why does everyone seem to think that George cannot write good storylines? AFFC and ADWD are among my favorite books. Ever. The politics in KL are a big reason as to why I enjoy ASOIAF.

If political intrigue and Sansa and LF sorting things out in the Vale don't appeal to you, fine. But that doesn't make it poor plotting.

because he wrote himself into a plot knot. simple.

and I agree, he might not ever finish the saga for various reasons.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Are people actually blaming D&D for spoiling the books.

Lets retract here go back to the start when Geroge R.R. Martin sold the rights of his books to a TV show did he not know his own writing pace and how long it would take for him to finish his story. Did he think the TV world would wait 20 years for him to finish writing. Actors have other roles to play, Creative teams have other jobs to do, HBO was not going to give money for 15 seasons and even if they wanted to no creative team will make such a long term commitment.

I am sorry I have no sympathy for Martin he should have known this was going to happen. Going forward if D&D can't tell HIS STORY properly then he can't complain because he didn't finish the books on time and should have thought about the consequences of spoilers before he sold his work.

We can complain D&D are not telling the story properly that is a different argument but I think we can't expect them to wait for Martin, this series is finishing in two seasons and it will end before the books are done so everything is going to be spoiled including the most important aspect of any epic series which is THE ENDING.

Not according to Stephen King (see The Dark Tower series).

[Lady Blackmont]

“It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.”

-Ernest Hemmingway

All of you just got lit up.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Isn't Maggie the Frog's great-great grandmother descended from the Casterly's? Lann the Clever drove them out of their home. I think Maggie wants revenge because of that and perhaps that is why she gave Jayne Westerling's mother the love potion to give Robb? I don't recall where I read that though, so correct me if I'm wrong.

No, Maggy the Frog has no known relation to the Casterlys. She's a maegi from Essos (hence the nickname). She herself is Jeyne Westerling's great-grandmother, paternal grandmother of Sybell Westerling (née Spicer). She is dead by the time of the series. The theory is that Sybell knew how to make a love potion because "Maggy" was her grandmother. Which served the Lannisters' purpose, so I don't see how it would be revenge against them. But it's not confirmed that there was a love potion (yet).

[ColdDrake]

Stephen King's endings are usually not satisfying at all. Off the top of my headI remember Salem's Lot and the Mist both having almost the same type of non-ending.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Stephen King's endings are usually not satisfying at all. Off the top of my headI remember Salem's Lot and the Mist both having almost the same type of non-ending.

I agree. I still have yet to finish the final pages of IT. It is so frustrating because everything leading up to the ending of his novels is usually incredible. I still can't believe that insulting letter he left his readers before giving us the final chapter of TDT.

I will say Pet Sematary had a very terrifyingly, satisfying ending.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

DP

[UnViserion]

It would be incredibly inappropriate of Martin to criticize GoT.

:lol:

This is very true. I agree 100%

I'm merely laughing at the frankness of the statement. And how simplistically accurate it is.

[SyShaRa]

I have seen so many posts with people claiming that AFFC and ADWD are terrible books and D & D had to do something because those books were so horrible that they couldn't bring them to the screen. I have been unable to relate to this point of view because I loved the books and I love them even more on re-reads. Because of these claims that the books are universally loathed, I went to Good Reads to see what the ratings for each book were. Here are the stats from Good Reads:

AGOT: 88% rated it 4 or 5, 97% rated it 3 or above, 971,621 ratings

ACOK: 88% rated it 4 or 5, 99% rated it 3 or above, 441,591 ratings

ASOS: 91% rated it 4 or 5, 99% rated it 3 or above, 383,352 ratings

AFFC: 73% rated it 4 or 5, 95% rated it 3 or above, 344,833 ratings

ADWD: 82% rated it 4 or 5, 97% rated it 3 or above, 292,713 ratings

So, there was a drop in 4 or 5 ratings for those two books, but even for AFFC 95% of the people liked the book. I think it is time to challenge the idea being spread that they were terrible books. The truth is that a small percentage of people liked those two books less than the others and have been very vocal about their displeasure. Whether you like or dislike what D & D have done with the material they had, don't try to sell it that they had shitty material to work from.

What people sometimes forget is that feadt/dance are ONE book. Grrm's sole mistake was turning a potentially outstanding 400000 words book into 2 books south a combined 722000 words. If he had done the former (with all plot points covered except perhaps quentyn) then that book would have been better than SoS.

In the end, I'll say this; the winterfell storyline (manderlys, freys, boltons, umbers holed up inside a castle with stannis potentially arriving any day) is some of the most emotional storytelling we have seen the entire series. Even without theon (who is the best part about that storyline) it's just brilliant.

[Tyrion4President]

Are people actually blaming D&D for spoiling the books.

Lets retract here go back to the start when Geroge R.R. Martin sold the rights of his books to a TV show did he not know his own writing pace and how long it would take for him to finish his story. Did he think the TV world would wait 20 years for him to finish writing. Actors have other roles to play, Creative teams have other jobs to do, HBO was not going to give money for 15 seasons and even if they wanted to no creative team will make such a long term commitment.

I am sorry I have no sympathy for Martin he should have known this was going to happen. Going forward if D&D can't tell HIS STORY properly then he can't complain because he didn't finish the books on time and should have thought about the consequences of spoilers before he sold his work.

We can complain D&D are not telling the story properly that is a different argument but I think we can't expect them to wait for Martin, this series is finishing in two seasons and it will end before the books are done so everything is going to be spoiled including the most important aspect of any epic series which is THE ENDING.

I disagree with you and anyone who lays the blame on GRRM for not writing fast enough. The show runners are the ones who chose to eliminate large portions of the story and characters. They had plenty of material to keep pace with GRRM but they chose to cut out the entire Greyjoy story line, the Aegon story line, Lady Stoneheart, etc. They messed up not him.

[A Ghost of Someone]

What people sometimes forget is that feadt/dance are ONE book. Grrm's sole mistake was turning a potentially outstanding 400000 words book into 2 books south a combined 722000 words. If he had done the former (with all plot points covered except perhaps quentyn) then that book would have been better than SoS.

In the end, I'll say this; the winterfell storyline (manderlys, freys, boltons, umbers holed up inside a castle with stannis potentially arriving any day) is some of the most emotional storytelling we have seen the entire series. Even without theon (who is the best part about that storyline) it's just brilliant.

I think the red wedding and the death of Robb Stark had a lot to do with the last two books being less than popular. It is the darkest hour of house Stark. Arya in exile, Sansa's mysery, Bran travels and Rickon AWAL. There were no real heroes to follow after the death of the Young Wolf.

[Darkbringer]

“It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.”

-Ernest Hemmingway

All of you just got lit up.

yes but ASOIAF is about the mystery, as much as anything else. How many mysteries have you read, where you already knew the ending?

[A Ghost of Someone]

yes but ASOIAF is about the mystery, as much as anything else. How many mysteries have you read, where you already knew the ending?

:agree:

That is why we are here in the forums, the mystery as to what will happen on the show as well as in the books is the mysteries we are interested in.

[Lutfitasiwi]

Deleted. Is there a way we can delete comment? I'm so sorry.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I disagree with you and anyone who lays the blame on GRRM for not writing fast enough. The show runners are the ones who chose to eliminate large portions of the story and characters. They had plenty of material to keep pace with GRRM but they chose to cut out the entire Greyjoy story line, the Aegon story line, Lady Stoneheart, etc. They messed up not him.

You have to be kidding right? There's no chance GRRM finishes both books before the series has long run its course. On top of that we are 5 seasons in after 5 total books that are more like 4, so this complaint really makes no sense.

[Lady Blackmont]

So don't watch season six before TWOW comes out, and S7 before ADOS.

It's really that simple.

Yes, some douchebags might post information on the Internet, in conversations, on the news... But who hasn't had to go through that? the Unsullied had to put up with this for four years, I think we can handle it.

[Lady Blackmont]

I think they could likely have run Season five as AFFC and Dreams and Dust. And Season Six as After the Feast and parts of TWOW (Sample Chapters).

Unfortunately, the audience who watches GoT doesn't enjoy Westeros for the same reasons many of us do. And the lack of Holy Sh*t moments in AFFC and DaD may not have appealed to them.

It would have given George an extra year though.

[King Nothing]

I disagree with you and anyone who lays the blame on GRRM for not writing fast enough. The show runners are the ones who chose to eliminate large portions of the story and characters. They had plenty of material to keep pace with GRRM but they chose to cut out the entire Greyjoy story line, the Aegon story line, Lady Stoneheart, etc. They messed up not him.

So the series should be at a minimum 13 seasons long? The Stark kids would be full fledged adults (they are already close) and the show would be cancelled half way through anyway. Makes no sense.

GRRM has been in the television industry. When he signed that contract he knew when the final book would need to be completed to stay ahead of the show. It is 100% on him. And to be honest I do not blame him, dump trucks of money is never a bad thing...

Clearly HBO has no problem moving forward without source material. I think it is to the detriment of the show, but I'll take what I can now rather than in 2020 if the series was pushed out (2020!!!!! GoT was released in 1996)

[239JMFL34109]

So the series should be at a minimum 13 seasons long? The Stark kids would be full fledged adults (they are already close) and the show would be cancelled half way through anyway. Makes no sense.

GRRM has been in the television industry. When he signed that contract he knew when the final book would need to be completed to stay ahead of the show. It is 100% on him. And to be honest I do not blame him, dump trucks of money is never a bad thing...

Clearly HBO has no problem moving forward without source material. I think it is to the detriment of the show, but I'll take what I can now rather than in 2020 if the series was pushed out (2020!!!!! GoT was released in 1996)

not only did that pay him. He has more books have sold since the series came out that all the years before it.

GRRm is still working with HBO on more series or movies too.