Small Questions v.10101

[Ronfried_IV]

thanks for all the answers.

Mel says she has powders for truth and pyromancers and alchemists make these powders (along with powders for lust, fear, fire manipulation and killing).

I think you are referring the scene where Mel and Davos talk in the dungeon.

I think she is making it look like it's her gods power and not some "cheap" alchemist trick, so she can attract people to her religion or impress them.

yes for example, also the cressen (crassen) scene, where she seems to know that there is poison in the cup and I don't believe she saw it in her fires

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Shouldn't Rhaegar's son Aegon be the heir? There's a precedent, with Jaehaerys I dying and then it was not his oldest surviving son who inherited, but rather his grandson Viserys I, who was the son of his third son. Granted, they needed a Great Council to sort the whole thing out, but still, why was Viserys the heir and not Aegon?

According to Maester Yandel as described in The World of Ice and Fire, Aerys named Viserys heir after Rhaegar's death. Why he did so, is not explained..

When Jaehaerys I died, his eldest surviving son* (Aemon) and his second eldest son (Baelon, the father of Viserys I), were already dead. As Aemon had left only a daughter as heir (Rhaenys), and Baelon three sons (Viserys, Daemon and Aegon, though it is unknown whether Aegon was still alive at Jaehaerys' death), Viserys had been declared heir over Rhaenys by a Great Council in 101 AC, two years before Jaehaerys' death.

Aemon and Baelon were the eldest two surviving sons, though I should mention, Prince Aegon was older than both, yet died young.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

thanks for all the answers.

yes for example, also the cressen (crassen) scene, where she seems to know that there is poison in the cup and I don't believe she saw it in her fires

I do think she saw it in her fires. She says the first thing she do when reading fire is seeking a danger on her life.

I think she survived the poison thanks to her necklace. In the same book, we learn there are necklaces in the east that protects you from poison. So yeah.

[Ronfried_IV]

I do think she saw it in her fires. She says the first thing she do when reading fire is seeking a danger on her life.

I think she survived the poison thanks to her necklace. In the same book, we learn there are necklaces in the east that protects you from poison. So yeah.

that it was the necklace was pretty clear to me, since it glows red when she drinks the wine it would make sense, and later rattelshirt wears a similar one before he gets sacrificed to rhollor. She seems to have a glamour on herself, going by the beautiful looks and her talk about beeing old and so on...

btw is there information about her rank in the red priest guild or something? is there even a hierachy amon them or do they get their orders/missions directly through the flames? Since Thoros was "sent" to Robert

edit: is there a mentioning of varging a person that was succesfull? other than varamir failing to warg the spearwive and bran warging hodor? Since i don't believe hodor is mentally strong enough to push against it like the SW?

[Mrs.Grumpy]

that it was the necklace was pretty clear to me, since it glows red when she drinks the wine it would make sense, and later rattelshirt wears a similar one before he gets sacrificed to rhollor. She seems to have a glamour on herself, going by the beautiful looks and her talk about beeing old and so on...

btw is there information about her rank in the red priest guild or something? is there even a hierachy amon them or do they get their orders/missions directly through the flames? Since Thoros was "sent" to Robert

edit: is there a mentioning of varging a person that was succesfull? other than varamir failing to warg the spearwive and bran warging hodor? Since i don't believe hodor is mentally strong enough to push against it like the SW?

Melisandre has her own agenda, so she is not taking orders fron anyone. But I (and many others) think that Mel was a temple prostitue before having her own agenda/learning magic.

There is a High Priest of R'hllor and also soldiers, temple prostitues and regular red priests and priestesses in Volantis.

We don't really know.

[Lost Melnibonean]

btw is there information about her rank in the red priest guild or something? is there even a hierachy amon them or do they get their orders/missions directly through the flames? Since Thoros was "sent" to Robert

edit: is there a mentioning of varging a person that was succesfull? other than varamir failing to warg the spearwive and bran warging hodor? Since i don't believe hodor is mentally strong enough to push against it like the SW?

1.

Why did Melisandre seek out Stannis? Did she see him in her flames and decided to seek him out on her own, or is she on a mission on behalf of the red priests? It doesn't seem at any point as if the latter is the case, when you compare to Moqorro who has been sent out by the priesthood.

You're right. Melisandre has gone to Stannis entirely on her own, and has her own agenda.

SSM, http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Interview_in_Barcelona

Is Thoros of Myr a follower of the same deity that Melisandre worships? Are he and Beric Dondarrion still around?

Yes and no, and yes and no. Details will be revealed in A STORM OF SWORDS.

(I have to save some surprises for the books, after all)

SSM, http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C90/P105

2. No.

[Criston of House Shapper]

According to Maester Yandel as described in The World of Ice and Fire, Aerys named Viserys heir after Rhaegar's death. Why he did so, is not explained..

When Jaehaerys I died, his eldest surviving son* (Aemon) and his second eldest son (Baelon, the father of Viserys I), were already dead. As Aemon had left only a daughter as heir (Rhaenys), and Baelon three sons (Viserys, Daemon and Aegon, though it is unknown whether Aegon was still alive at Jaehaerys' death), Viserys had been declared heir over Rhaenys by a Great Council in 101 AC, two years before Jaehaerys' death.

Aemon and Baelon were the eldest two surviving sons, though I should mention, Prince Aegon was older than both, yet died young.

But Jaehaerys had a bunch of other sons, why weren't they heir? It seems like similar circumstances to the Aegon/Jon vs Viserys problem.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

But Jaehaerys had a bunch of other sons, why weren't they heir? It seems like similar circumstances to the Aegon/Jon vs Viserys problem.

Jaehaerys and Alysanne had thirteen children in total. Of those thirteen, seven were male. Of those seven sons (Aegon, Aemon, Baelon, Aeryn, Vaegon, Valerion and Gaemon, in that order), only three survived until adulthood (Aemon, Baelon and Vaegon). Vaegon became an Archmaester, and bound to the Citadel, was unable to inherit the throne, nor was he allowed to father trueborn children.

Aemon married to Jocelyn Baratheon (his aunt), and had a daughter, Rhaenys. Baelon married his sister Alyssa Targaryen, and had three sons, Viserys, Daemon and Aegon. Aegon has so far never been mentioned as being alive during the reign of Viserys I, so it is possible he died young as well.

Prince Aemon, second born son, but eldest surviving son, was named Jaehaerys I's heir, but Aemon died in 92 AC, leaving Jaehaerys with the choice: should he name Aemon's heir, Princess Rhaenys, his heir, or should he choose his next son, Baelon? Jaehaerys choose Baelon. Baelon died in 101 AC, and the choice (Rhaenys/Laenor, as Aemon's heir(s), or Viserys, as Baelon's heir) was put in front of a Great Council, who decided to elect Viserys as heir to the throne. Viserys inherited the crown two years later.

So in Jaehaerys' case, there was no grandson of his original heir to name heir.. Aemon only had a daughter. Secondly, there were no sons of his own anymore to inherit, only grandchildren.

Aegon being passed over in favor of Viserys fits with Aerys believing Rhaegar had been betrayed on the Trident by the Dornishmen, and a King is allowed to name his own heir, after all. The exact reasoning for Aerys naming Viserys heir has not been given. Was it simply the bad relationship between him and Rhaegar? Was it due to his paranoia concerning the Dornishmen? Was it something else? Was it multiple issues all at once? We don't know (yet).

[Criston of House Shapper]

Jaehaerys and Alysanne had thirteen children in total. Of those thirteen, seven were male. Of those seven sons (Aegon, Aemon, Baelon, Aeryn, Vaegon, Valerion and Gaemon, in that order), only three survived until adulthood (Aemon, Baelon and Vaegon). Vaegon became an Archmaester, and bound to the Citadel, was unable to inherit the throne, nor was he allowed to father trueborn children.

I think I misremembered it, I thought that some of his younger sons were still alive when the Great Council was held.

[Ser Leftwich]

btw is there information about her rank in the red priest guild or something? is there even a hierachy amon them or do they get their orders/missions directly through the flames? Since Thoros was "sent" to Robert

Thoros was not sent to Robert. Thoros was sent to Aerys, but Robert liked him as a drinking companion. But the nature of how forcibly Thoros was 'sent' is unknown.

“I had a gift for tongues, though. And when I gazed into the flames, well, from time to time I saw things. Even so, I was more bother than I was worth, so they sent me finally to King’s Landing to bring the Lord’s light to seven-besotted Westeros. King Aerys so loved fire it was thought he might make a convert. Alas, his pyromancers knew better tricks than I did.

“King Robert was fond of me, though. The first time I rode into a mêlée with a flaming sword, Kevan Lannister’s horse reared and threw him and His Grace laughed so hard I thought he might rupture.”

- ASoS p. 591

[aryagonnakill#2]

I always assumed that Aerys named Viserys his heir because he thought the Dornish had betrayed him.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Somebody should correct the Wiki entry on Lys. It says Varys claims to have been born a slave in Lys. But Varys claimed he was an orphan who was apprenticed to a traveling folly. It was Pycelle who told Tyrion that Varys was born a slave.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Somebody should correct the Wiki entry on Lys. It says Varys claims to have been born a slave in Lys. But Varys claimed he was an orphan who was apprenticed to a traveling folly. It was Pycelle who told Tyrion that Varys was born a slave.

Done. Pycelle told only Eddard Stark, didn't he? Or also Tyrion?

[Lost Melnibonean]

You're right. Just Eddard.

[bellyfrog]

I noticed something when I was reading last night that stood out to me a little bit so I thought I'd post here and see if there's any theories or opinions about it already.

In AFFC when Brienne, Ser Hyle, Septon Meribald and Pod are at the Crossroads Inn, Brienne takes a brief interest with the girl Willow.

"Gendry was the closest thing to a man grown, but it was Willow shouting all the orders, as if she were a queen in her castle and the other children were no more than servants."

"If she were highborn, command would come naturally to her, and deference to them. Brienne wondered whether Willow might be more than she appeared. The girl was too young and too plain to be Sansa Stark, but she was of the right age to be the younger sister, and even Lady Catelyn had said that Arya lacked her sister's beauty. Brown hair, brown eyes, skinny... Could it be? Arya Stark's hair was brown, she recalled, but Brienne was not sure of the color of her eyes. Brown and brown, was that it? Could it be that she did not die at Saltpans after all?"

This seems like the kind of foreshadowing that GRRM likes to do. With brown hair and brown eyes she's obviously not a Baratheon bastard or a Targ or anything like that but could she be some highborn girl in hiding or is this just something inconsequential?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Willow is a descendant of Tom Heddle. Have you read The Mystery Knight?

[Bluetiger]

I noticed something when I was reading last night that stood out to me a little bit so I thought I'd post here and see if there's any theories or opinions about it already.

In AFFC when Brienne, Ser Hyle, Septon Meribald and Pod are at the Crossroads Inn, Brienne takes a brief interest with the girl Willow.

"Gendry was the closest thing to a man grown, but it was Willow shouting all the orders, as if she were a queen in her castle and the other children were no more than servants."

"If she were highborn, command would come naturally to her, and deference to them. Brienne wondered whether Willow might be more than she appeared. The girl was too young and too plain to be Sansa Stark, but she was of the right age to be the younger sister, and even Lady Catelyn had said that Arya lacked her sister's beauty. Brown hair, brown eyes, skinny... Could it be? Arya Stark's hair was brown, she recalled, but Brienne was not sure of the color of her eyes. Brown and brown, was that it? Could it be that she did not die at Saltpans after all?"

This seems like the kind of foreshadowing that GRRM likes to do. With brown hair and brown eyes she's obviously not a Baratheon bastard or a Targ or anything like that but could she be some highborn girl in hiding or is this just something inconsequential?

I belive that she is just inkeeper, descendant of Heddle, but maybe...

House Ryger of Willow Wood has a willow in it's sigil, they fought for Targs and one Ryger (Robin? Robert? William? ) was sent to the Wall, we know nothing about his family. .. she might be hiding Ryger, but that doesn't make much sense and there's no proof. ..

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

You're right. Just Eddard.

Ok, then I found all the quotes :) Thanks!

[bellyfrog]

Willow is a descendant of Tom Heddle. Have you read The Mystery Knight?

Nope, I've only read the five main books. Good to know that she has some relevance then and I wasn't just imagining things.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Nope, I've only read the five main books. Good to know that she has some relevance then and I wasn't just imagining things.

In that case, this wiki-page might give a good short summary of Willow's relative :)