Are We Getting Close to a Brienne/Stannis Showdown?

[DaBurglar]

The showrunners are so dumb and stupid, so poor in their understanding of the story that they actually cling to the "Renly is the Rightful King" nonsense.

I like Stannis' "Go do your duty" line.

Indeed, now that the season 5 finale has aired and we now KNOW just what the HBO writers decided to ultimately...."do" ..... with Stannis Baratheon's "chinese firedrill strategy for conquering westeros and winning the Iron Throne"! Man what a friggin WASTE!! All of it....the whole Stannis adventure. I do not necessarily mean his story was a waster, I just mean his ultimate fate as now revealed by the HBO "Dungeon Masters".... his whole family, GONE! Two Armies, GONE! (one at the blackwater/kings landing, the other somewhere between the Wall and Winterfell) All that gold they conned the iron bank out of and gave to the sell swords ....GONE! Melisandre's alleged "Blood Magic Prowess"....and all her visions and predictions GONE!

As Someone who has NOT read the books (but knows the storyline from wikipedia), if you follow the HBO series trajectory for Stannis, you ALSO see a totally rigid, one dimensional, almost STUPID character who I found far more annoying than Brienne ever has been......but the way the HBO series put together and developed the Stannis storyline, there were some HUGE holes and some "WTF?" moments....consider:

At the end of season 3, supposedly we see Davos and Stannis and Melisandre ("mel") reading the note from the Nights watch about the coming threat from the Army of the Dead/White walkers......Mel herself says this war of kings "means nothing" and the real war is (supposedly) at the wall in the north. Ok fine, season 3 ends with us expecting Stannis to galvanize into action and scrounge up another army and head north.....

Season 4 shows up and we see Stannis and Davos still stuck in neutral trying to "Scrounge up" said army......they have no gold. Davos is not able to convince any real houses to shift support to Stannis....ok, no problem. We just have Shireen draft a loan application to the Iron Bank of Braavos, and then, just like that we see Stannis and Davos in the Braavos applying for a crapload of gold to buy an army. And then, JUST LIKE THAT, in the final episode of season 4, we next see Stannis and Davos at the head of what appears to be a really formidable and well oiled Military machine descending on .....MANCE RAYDER and the WILDLINGS NORTH OF THE WALL?!?!? I must admit this was a huge "WTF?" moment for me in the series.....who or what exactly were the soldiers stannis had with him when he first showed up? How or why did they end up NORTH of the wall in full attack mode? Were they there to battle the Army of the dead and instead found the wildilings? And in the midst of all this we discern that Stannis is still intent on ruling all of westeros so this foray of his must be an attempt at a TOP down strategy of conquest by starting with the north first, right??? Ok, nevermind, I will wait for season 5 to figure this all out.........<season 5 arrives>

Stannis, in his usual implacable way, MUST make mance rayder bend the knee.....he cannot simply give the guy a pass and be happy to have his many thousands of wildlings in his army, he HAS to make Mance Bend......Mance does not Bend so he burns him and loses all hope of the wildlings supplementing his forces. Meanwhile, what is going on with his existing army, the COOL looking, slick forces that charged in at the end of season 4? More important, how did they go from looking really good to looking like a pathetic rabble when Stannis finally marches out of castle black and towards winterfell? Starting with episode 7, we see and hear of Stannis army RAPIDLY deteriorating and falling apart somewhere between winterfell and the wall.....so many questions! How could they be so utterly inept and unprepared for the weather and circumstances of the north? Sure they are not "FROM" the north, but they have been IN the north for some time....and no clue at how to manage basic military logistics like guarding your camp and protecting horses???

And obviously it was someone's plan all along to sacrifice Shireen, which ultimately they did when his army is all but desolate.....I mean this little girl was the ONLY adorable kid on the whole show, and blah! Extra crispy!!! again....."WTF"? And why is no one asking, "what kind of sick freak god is this lord of light that he needs to fry some royal blood before he lifts a finger to help his alleged worshippers???" Seriously, how lame and weak of a deity is he that he NEEDS a poor little disabled INNOCENT girl to burn in order for him to "arrange" a battle's outcome for his supposed followers? Why did not anyone ask such questions? And of course the biggest question, directed at the lord of light himself...."Dude, WTF happened? Where is my miracle?" ( I wont ask the next logical question: Assuming the BAttle and conquest of winterfell HAD gone as Stannis hoped when he toasted his Daughter, what was his next move? Who or what would he have had to sacrifice in order to conquer the next domino on his path to the Iron Throne? and what was the lord of light going to demand for victory over the WHITE WALKERS themselves???? No one thought to think that far ahead, least of all Stannis when he made his pact.....)

Lo and behold, the sacrifice of shireen to this pathetic Lord of Light turns out to HASTEN stannis' free fall and leads to his DEATH....the whole stupid fiasco, starting with the confrontation with Renly. It was indeed fitting that Brienne ULTIMATELY deliver Stannis' death blow.....Stannis indeed committed a foul crime in having his brother killed via blood magic, and it set in motion a horrific chain of events (just imagine if STannis had worked out some compromise with his brother like they should have done.....think of how that would have benefitted everyone and saved all kinds of bloodshed and problems!?!?) Stannis was the cause of a huge amount of pain and suffering, mainly because of his arrogant stubborness .... Brienne's blow was justice, and even though it seems she abandoned her responsibility to Sansa to go after Stannis, this is ultimately NOT the case: If any of you recall, when Brienne swore fealty to Cately Stark, one condition that Brienne asked (which Catelyn granted) was that IF Brienne ever encountered Stannis again CAtelyn would allow Brienne to exact revenge....this was never in doubt.

So all I can say is at least now we are RID of Stannis and his absurd intractibility....next season (season 6) already looks brighter as a result!

[DaBurglar]

The showrunners are so dumb and stupid, so poor in their understanding of the story that they actually cling to the "Renly is the Rightful King" nonsense.

I like Stannis' "Go do your duty" line.

sorry double post!!!

[sapphire_lion]

But they make sure to have her insult other women for being "weak" ("Shut up, you're crying like a woman"), resort to violence at the first opportunity,

Brienne has shown time and again that she is ready to support and protect other women. She chose to serve Catelyn over Robb because Catelyn had a women's courage and Brienne respected that.

She made the comment about "crying like a woman" to Jaime because she was goading him into fighting for his life. It's like when Tyrion shamed the men at the Blackwater into fighting by telling them they would be less than a half-man if they ran. It wasn't Tyrion’s intension to belittle dwarfs. However, he was pragmatic enough to use a common prejudice in order to shame others into taking a desired course of action. Brienne was doing the same with Jaime.

kill remorselessly (often torturing her opponents to death), and insult and belittle those she doesn't find sufficiently "badass". Because otherwise, how will we know she's stronk character?

It is just farcical and ridiculous to claim that Brienne is often torturing people. She offers the Hound mercy and explicitly tells him she does not want to kill him. She's only ever killed in self-defense or to avenge those who have been unjustly murdered.

Doesn't explain how she's uninjured after the blows, or how she physically overpowered someone with friggin 80 POUNDS on her, though...

Brienne was hit by someone who had just grabbed a Valyrian steel sword with his bare hands. Realistically, his blows should have been ineffectual as he should have severe nerve damage (which would greatly impact his ability to hit). The Hound was also suffering from an infection. It is a fact that infection can greatly weaken a person.

Moreover, Brienne is supposed to be freakishly strong. She moves a cow-sized boulder in ASOS. If she can handle a boulder, she can handle the Hound when he's sick/hurt.

[Deadwood]

Brienne has shown time and again that she is ready to support and protect other women. She chose to serve Catelyn over Robb because Catelyn had a women's courage and Brienne respected that.

She made the comment about "crying like a woman" to Jaime because she was goading him into fighting for his life. It's like when Tyrion shamed the men at the Blackwater into fighting by telling them they would be less than a half-man if they ran. It wasn't Tyrion’s intension to belittle dwarfs. However, he was pragmatic enough to use a common prejudice in order to shame others into taking a desired course of action. Brienne was doing the same with Jaime.

It is just farcical and ridiculous to claim that Brienne is often torturing people. She offers the Hound mercy and explicitly tells him she does not want to kill him. She's only ever killed in self-defense or to avenge those who have been unjustly murdered.

Brienne was hit by someone who had just grabbed a Valyrian steel sword with his bare hands. Realistically, his blows should have been ineffectual as he should have severe nerve damage (which would greatly impact his ability to hit). The Hound was also suffering from an infection. It is a fact that infection can greatly weaken a person.

Moreover, Brienne is supposed to be freakishly strong. She moves a cow-sized boulder in ASOS. If she can handle a boulder, she can handle the Hound when he's sick/hurt.

Nice rejoinder. I would think that Brienne could handle the Hound regardless. The victory might well go to a different person so many times out of a 100, but it wouldn't be too heavy in the Hound's favour.

ALso, Rory isn't 18 stone. And if weight was all there was in being the best, then the heaviest fella would be heavyweight boxing champ.

[Leonardo]

Nice rejoinder. I would think that Brienne could handle the Hound regardless. The victory might well go to a different person so many times out of a 100, but it wouldn't be too heavy in the Hound's favour.

ALso, Rory isn't 18 stone. And if weight was all there was in being the best, then the heaviest fella would be heavyweight boxing champ.

Just... No.

The Hound is probably in the top 2 for duelists at the start of the series. He handled Gregor like a child

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

That's on Brienne, cause she DOES believe Renly was the rightful King. There are many differing opinions on who the "rightful" ruler is. Dany believes it's hers, Stannis believes it's his, as did Renly. Don't see why you'd have a problem with this.

I don't understand this. How can anyone believe Renly is the "Rightful" King. Better King perhaps in their minds but even Renly says Stannis would be the rightful King, but he says he'd be a poor one.

[Draco_Dracul]

I don't understand this. How can anyone believe Renly is the "Rightful" King. Better King perhaps in their minds but even Renly says Stannis would be the rightful King, but he says he'd be a poor one.

Better might be enough for many people. If the law would make the lesser man king, how can the law be right?

[aliunde]

Better might be enough for many people. If the law would make the lesser man king, how can the law be right?

The law is the law. The throne is Stannis' by right.

Get over it. Renly wasn't the rightful king. Dumb&Dumber just live in their own glorified fanfiction.

[sciteacher]

I don't understand this. How can anyone believe Renly is the "Rightful" King. Better King perhaps in their minds but even Renly says Stannis would be the rightful King, but he says he'd be a poor one.

Apparently no one thought this way on the show but in the real world:

Robert made Renly the Lord of Storm's End, the capitol of the Stormlands and family seat of House Baratheon. Until Robert and Cersei had children, that would have made Renly Robert's heir.

[Davos is King]

Apparently no one thought this way on the show but in the real world:

Robert made Renly the Lord of Storm's End, the capitol of the Stormlands and family seat of House Baratheon. Until Robert and Cersei had children, that would have made Renly Robert's heir.

Lordship of Storm's End =/= higher in the line of succession

[Red Tiger]

I don't understand this. How can anyone believe Renly is the "Rightful" King. Better King perhaps in their minds but even Renly says Stannis would be the rightful King, but he says he'd be a poor one.

Depends, she may have felt like Renly was the rightful king through merit or something. I mean when people in the real world ask what a king should be, kind is often one of the words used.

[Draco_Dracul]

The law is the law. The throne is Stannis' by right.

Get over it. Renly wasn't the rightful king. Dumb&Dumber just live in their own glorified fanfiction.

Actually, by Robert's dying deceleration Joffery was the rightful king regardless of birth. Ned actually had to forge the will to avoid that.

[GrammarYatzy]

The "rightful king" line from the show was really really dumb and very hard to picture why brienne would say that but obviously it resonated with some of the more clueless really really dumb viewers.

Theres always a part of the population that just doesn't have the brain to process basic facts. People who won't give their children vaccines. 6000 year old world people etc. A subset of that part of our population thinks renly has some rightful king claim.

There is also an issue of taste that renly says renly might make a good king. Who knows? He certainly wasn't good enough to become king. Anyway that is a different issue.

[Frumpus]

The law is the law. The throne is Stannis' by right.

Get over it. Renly wasn't the rightful king. Dumb&Dumber just live in their own glorified fanfiction.

do you people realize that you're arguing over words spouted by fictional characters?

who cares that Brienne called Renly the rightful king? It's something she would have done! End of goddamn story.

[Wavey Sauce]

Stannis wont die. She knows he is at least trying to give the north to a stark etc, thats why they didnt just show the death blow

[Witchy]

I think they didn't show the death blow because they wanted to give Stannis an honorable death, which they did by having him admit he deserved his fate and having someone honorable do the killing. Showing him with half his brains hanging out wouldn't have been very respectful to the character.

[Deadwood]

Just... No.

The Hound is probably in the top 2 for duelists at the start of the series. He handled Gregor like a child

The match makes the victory, not the player.

[BalerionTheCat]

And why is no one asking, "what kind of sick freak god is this lord of light that he needs to fry some royal blood before he lifts a finger to help his alleged worshippers???"

I do.

This R'hllor really stinks. All these tales of sacrifices, while men are supposed to fight FOR R'hllor, against the Great Other make no sense. I don't know for the Others, but what R'hllor wants is just bleeding humans. R'hllor is THE enemy.