Rant and Rave without Repercussion [Book Spoilers]

[Mindwalker]

Dear Show!

Thank you for making this finale so hilariously bad and the plot holes so many that they might unite and swallow the whole universe.

I think it helps me so I can finally let go.

Yours sincerely,

Mindwalker

[Misnthropia]

 

Thank you.

Is it me or is pretty much everyone aware of the twincest? Isn't that dangerous? For Cersei, Jaime and their one remaining child?

Hahaha but doing so kind of makes Shireens death one of the worst decisions ever made. Burning your daughter only for you to die one episode later. Unless her death is supposed to serve another purpose? Which isn't resurrecting Jon I think, as the actor playing him insists that Jon is very dead.

I am also not liking the fact that I am running out of people to root for. At this point, if the white walkers showed up I have a feeling I really wouldn't care all that much.

 

If Jon is dead dead, ill eat my hat.

It was a very obvious bait and switch interview.

[KarlVyt]

Looks like Dastardly and Despicable just went full retard.

[AlpenglowMemories]

God, Ellaria seemed to be affected by the poison at a much slower rate than Myrcella. That didn't make any sense - how did Myrcella die first?

[Daeron Velar]

So, Ellaria and the Sand Snakes expect to survive this how? The heir to the Iron Throne just died two minutes after being frenched by Ellaria, who is the mother and former paramour of well know poisoners. Umm, are they counting on everyone thinking the girl just has a heart condition? And you just gave them the perfect hostage. How can you start a war when the Lannisters have your cousin, the only heir left in House Martell? How stupid are the writers for contriving this shit.

Tell me about it Ellaria is absolutely stupid and isn't thinking at all. Like Cersei she just acts without thinking of the consequences.

Honestly the Sands Snakes and Ellaria are horribly written characters and the whole Dorne plot point has been terrible. Sad to see that she even backstabbed Oberyn after all they don't hurt little girls or so it's said. Ellaria needs her head on a spike. She and Cersei are absolutely stupid

[Dark Heart]

Oh boy.

It's not enough for Trant to have killed Syrio and have been a happy servant of Joffrey. He needs to be a paedophile too, and he needs to beat his victims on top of that. What the hell? Why did we get 40 or so second of Trant beating children? So we can hate him more and bump our fists when Arya kills him? I am so tired of B/W. They have no substance or subtlety or nuance to their writing.

And my God, Winterfell. All the poetry and brilliance of that plot was dropped for cheap drama.

I'm sure that they would defend it with "He also beat children in books!"

Yeah, he did beat Sansa but only when ordered (still horrible) but Sansa noticed that to him she's a thing. He wasn't bothered about beating her but he didn't enjoy it either. He cared not at all.

But D&D took that (maybe if they even noticed that. It's also quite possible they just wanted him to be super!Evil so audience doesn't get confused and cheers Arya killing him) to mean "He must be a sicko pedophile who like hitting little girls".

The most nuanced thing on that show are opening credits. :rolleyes:

[Conchobar]

So Jaime can just kill Trystane on the boat now?

Dave and Dan are geniuses, they really are...

As Dan said in the latest "inside the episode"

To find the strength to just keep on...uh..keepin on."

Sure Dan, sure...great delivery there, really convincing.

[rayarts]

I am so dissapointed in this season, I cannot believe I actually waitef forever for this... I am dreading season 6 now.

To this episode:

Stannis got what he deserved, Brienne killing him was justice, but couldn't they have shown this on screen?

Brienne waiting for Sansa's sign, then JUST as she turned her back there it is - this was so slapstick movie like stupid I actually groaned watching it.

Sansa... Was there any? Oh yeah. She fullfilled her duty in Reek's storyarc. So much for "Winterfell is my home" Got herself wed, unvirgined, raped and possibly knocked up for nothing (but for shock value and Reek)

No Tyrells, I am disappointed.

KL altogether so so short.

Doran should have foreseen Ellaria doing shit. The cliffhanger without focus on Jaimie's reaction to Myrcella's death is just bullshit.

I actually like Arya's scene - it shows how wild and vengeful she became.

But then - FTW - dafuq. I had to rewatch twice to be absolutely sure, that he did NOT say "Ghost" at any point.

I hate this season. Aside from a very few good scenes its just all over the place. Dumb & Dumber better do a better job next season.

[Eucratides_Megas]

Coming back to it, the whole Stannis campaign this season has really bothered me.

He's just making too many huge, glaring, OOC mistakes. This is Stannis Baratheon, the man who generates a lot of fierce, impassioned debate, with both fans and detractors going into detailed analysis on the traits each side see differently. But what is the unifying trait everyone should agree on (based not only on the testimony of every POV commenting in book and show), but also by the actual catalog of events detailed in the books? The one universal thing we know about Stannis is that he's a very good wartime commander, in both the strategic and tactical sense. He's won every battle he ever fought save one, Blackwater, which was as near run a battle as any before or since. Stannis was sitting on a decisive victory until the intervention of God GRRM and the Lannister/Tyrell alliance happened, and that despite already being wild-fired and having to cross a bridge of burning ships (or storm the walls himself in the show).

So they've made it a point in every---single---fucking----season, that Stannis is a very good wartime commander. Everyone says it, the evidence bears it out.

But D&D either want to eliminate Stannis as a contender for the throne or more simply as a human being with a pulse (the human being part they've granted begrudgingly, given how much of Selyse and Mel they've transferred to his character, and how much of Stannis they've instead transferred into Davos).

So they have him march on Winterfell, but make mistake after mistake after mistake. We see no mention of any northerners in his army. Not even hired guides. He doesn't go through the Mountain clan territory for reinforcements or take Deepwood Motte, two things that win half the northern lords to him outright with many more preparing to go over to him when the time is most opportune. Book Stannis knew it was foolish to march anywhere in the North with his southern army without at least northerners to guide them through the unforgiving terrain. Book Stannis did not bring Shireen and Selyse because a campaign like that was not a safe place for his heir to be---period, and left guards to see to her safety at the wall. Book Stannis took a bad situation and turned it to his advantage, preparing a strong defensive position and waiting for the Bolton forces to come to him, not march right up to Winterfell without sending a single freaking scout ahead to make sure a Bolton cavalry force wasn't waiting to smash them.

Bad weather snowing you in?

ShowStannis: Burn my daughter.

BookStannis: I will have no burnings, pray harder.

Time to fight?

ShowStannis: Marches his army in an unrealistic scatterbrained manner reminiscent of an early Total War game.

BookStannis: carefully preparing defensive lines and surprises with his ice holes in the lake.

Maybe I die?

ShowStannis: If I'm dead I'm done.

BookStannis: I have the Iron Banks backing, sending Massey to Essos to raise 20,000 men and seat my daughter on the Throne.

But D&D decide to have him suddenly becoming a clown-shoe---the guy who in the last season closer curb-stomped a wilding army twenty times his size!

All of these mistakes are stupid, and you know what, BookStannis doesn't make them. His march on Winterfell seems like one at first, maybe a big one, but its a decision he's forced to make because of the Northern lords backing him, and now given what we know about the Bolton's precarious alliance, it was a stroke of pure genius, one that could easily see House Bolton slaughtered to the last man. These mistakes are inventions of writers desperate to end a storyline they never liked to begin with.

The bottom line: When you can't write an effective end to your character, within the character parameters you yourself set, you are a bad writer.

D&D, if there were every any doubts on the subject of your quality, you have certainly ended them.

[Balerion06]

What even was the point of Stannis in this show? Why did he exist?

He's literally achieved nothing.

Blackwater could have just involved Robb and the Northern army attacking King's Landing (since this show doesn't give a shit about geography or military logistics to begin with). The Battle of the Wall could have ended with Mance getting killed by an arrow, causing the Wildling army to scatter, thus causing Jon to go to Hardhome and find them.

Davos and Mel could have just entered the plot through other means.

Stannis should have just gone the way of Arianne and Aegon in this turd of a show. It would have been a service to his character.

[Red Helm]

s6: Ramsay duels Robert Strong wearing a loincloth.

It is perhaps the greatest injustice in all of ASoIaF to omit Ramsay's precious armor from the adaption.

[ArabellaVidal]

I'm still catching up (only on pg 7 right now) but did anyone else think the "Dothraki Sea" was the same place the Hound fell?

[dannyk65]

God, Ellaria seemed to be affected by the poison at a much slower rate than Myrcella. That didn't make any sense - how did Myrcella die first?

(Lousy Dornish accent) Because after thousands and thousands of filling my mouth with poison and long, awkward same-sex kisses with preteens builds up a resistance.

[AlpenglowMemories]

And in Classic Geographical Issues: How the hell did Melisandre get back to the Wall so quickly? I have no idea what the time frame of these episodes are. Does a week pass? A month? And Jon's death was just....eh. Just eh. No Ghost, no Wun Wun, no tears, no smoking wound. They don't have to do things exactly like the book, but when they're given such powerful images like that or Dany standing beside Drogon against a red sunset, the Dothraki coming out of the haze to see her....why the hell do they bland it up?

:dunce:

[Mindwalker]

I'm too disgusted to even feel like reading much of this thread. I will later, of course.

I can only second the whole of Mordred Dayne's comprehensive post, with little to add:

Mereen:

YAY, more funny bromance road trip duos! I so love them on this show.

So how exactly did our heroes get out of the pit? Never mind.

We knew St. Tyrion would save the day/ city/ world, but man, they waste no time.

And who is T. Lannister, kinslayer and traitor himself, new to Dany's court, to berate Jorah for his betrayal?!

Why exactly can Greyworm walk and talk, but not put on a shirt?

Winterhell:

Great. Sansa has as little agency as ever (with Theon killing Myranda etc.) and if that jump didn't kill them or at least make them handicapped forever, I don't know what.

Wall:

That Benjen trolling thing in the previouslies was the most superfluous and gratuitious stunt to pull. Just like having, what, 5 cliffhangers (plus unresolved stuff like Marge and Loras) feels quite cheap.

I now think Kit Harrington is not a much better actor than Emilia, he's only got the brooding/ constipated look down, which often covers it.

Porne:

Stayed true to itself. Godawful women characters, cringeworthy scenes (Tyene/ Bronn) and most of all the horrible bad soap opera on the ship. Will this at least get rid of Trystane?

[Red Helm]

@dannyk65

"Yes, I know that THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER named me "the third most powerful writer in Hollywood" last December. You would be surprised at how little that means. I cannot control what anyone else says or does, or make them stop saying or doing it, be it on the fannish or professional fronts. What I can control is what happens in my books, so I am going to return to that chapter I've been writing on THE WINDS OF WINTER now, thank you very much" GRRM"

The way that last line is written, it sounds like an interviewer burst through GRRM's window to interview and after he says "thank you very much", he immediately turns around to begin typing again as if the whole exchange never happened.

[Red Helm]

And in Classic Geographical Issues: How the hell did Melisandre get back to the Wall so quickly? I have no idea what the time frame of these episodes are. Does a week pass? A month? And Jon's death was just....eh. Just eh. No Ghost, no Wun Wun, no tears, no smoking wound. They don't have to do things exactly like the book, but when they're given such powerful images like that or Dany standing beside Drogon against a red sunset, the Dothraki coming out of the haze to see her....why the hell do they bland it up?

:dunce:

Because that is D&D's greatest talent. But yes, visually the show is so dull. And even worse; this is better than how it was in 2011. Christ, the fucking pilot was hideous. The North is surely cursed by this evil grey filter magic!

[abandonship]

  

If Jon is dead dead, ill eat my hat.

It was a very obvious bait and switch interview.

Hahaha, provided you username doesn't change, if he really does end up dead dead (which I also am not believing, blame it on the denial). I will find you and make you eat your hat, Liam Neeson style.

[dannyk65]

@dannyk65

"Yes, I know that THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER named me "the third most powerful writer in Hollywood" last December. You would be surprised at how little that means. I cannot control what anyone else says or does, or make them stop saying or doing it, be it on the fannish or professional fronts. What I can control is what happens in my books, so I am going to return to that chapter I've been writing on THE WINDS OF WINTER now, thank you very much" GRRM"

The way that last line is written, it sounds like an interviewer burst through GRRM's window to interview and after he says "thank you very much", he immediately turns around to begin typing again as if the whole exchange never happened.

Haha totally

[Ser Quork]

Well, I watched it and I can't believe it exceeded even my expectations for how botched it could be.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/06/14/game_of_thrones_season_five_finale_review_the_series_may_be_packed_with.html?wpsrc=fol_tw

"This season of Game of Thrones was packed with murder and rape. It was also so, so boring"

Good article.

Benioff had the nerve to say on the Inside the Episode about Olly stabbing Jon, "It's one of those great conflicts that makes us love the books." No, you no writing fools, do not even try to hang that crap story on the books. They have no shame.

He didn't!? Wow, he's a real piece of work.

So did Balon win the war of the five kings

It appears he did. :o

Reader

Your false plot is dead, reader. It and all its characters were smashed in 10 weeks of episodes. I have its ending. Tell its author.

Your false plot's themes are dead. Their metaphors smeared upon the walls of Winterhell. Come see them, reader. Your false plot lied, and so did George RR Martin. You told the world Sansa was getting smarter. Instead she went to Winterhell to be raped by Ramsbo.

I will have my shocking moments back. If you want the ending to your story, come and get it. I have it on HBO for all the world to see, proof of your lies. The network is greedy, but we have made a promise to spoil the 7 terrible books that started this series in Winterhell.

I want my gasps back. I want the false plot’s canon. I want to remove as many fantasy elements as possible. I want more whores.

I want to exploit them, their naked bodies. And I want my Saint Tyrion. Send them to me, reader, and I will not trouble you or your nerd friends. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your story’s heart and eat it.

Benioff the Arrogant,

Trueborn author of A Song of Ice and Fire.

Love it.

I couldn't enjoy ("enjoy") the WoS because all the time I was channelling D&D into the scene. It felt good.

I was wishing I knew how to make gifs and transpose them onto Cersei so Septa Spoonella could chant "Shame!" behind them. They should be ashamed, they really should.

That said, this was the only decent scene in the whole ep.

btw, for a moment, I thought that Ellaria was taking a poison to kill herself.

Actually, I would have liked that, not because I can't stand her anymore but because at least that would acknowledge the fact she's aware she did wrong and she just screwed up Dorne's inheritance.

Ha, I thought so too. Quite sad it was an antidote.

All the stupidity of this season came full circle in this episode. It was truly a terror to behold. At least now winter is gone and spring has come.

Could the Battle of Ice have been any more underwhelming? Instead of Stannis liberating the North from the Ironborn, winning Northmen to his cause, and surrounding Winterfell just as the political tensions there are coming to a head, we have Stannis sulking over the fact that sacrificing Shireen failed, limping up to Winterfell with an disorganized mob, and getting unceremoniously trounced by the antihero Ramsay. The battle was so anticlimactic that I was somewhat confused about what happened. Ramsay suddenly has an army? What happened to having no hold on the North? Oh, those must all be Northmen who sensibly decided to side with Sansa after she freely married into the Boltons.

I'm honestly not upset about spoilers, because Gaston & Lefou's simple, boring, stupid version of the Battle of Ice - which, to them, was really just a coda to the crescendo of burning Shireen - was completely different from the complex, suspenseful, realistic centerpiece of the whole Northern storyline in the books. For instance, are we honestly supposed to believe that the Manderlys aren't going to have any effect on the outcome of the battle?

Of course, Brienne, who takes her duty to find and protect Sansa so seriously, abandons her post when REVENGE presents itself. The ambiguous ending with Stannis’ fate was cheap and meaningless. Alive or dead, he’s irrelevant, now. If alive, he has no army, no friends, and no family. What would he do? And why would any viewers care, now that he is one of the worst villains in the entire story? Honestly, I hope they put poor Stannis – who, despite being wonderfully cast by Stephen Dillane, was totally botched from start to finish – out of his misery. Hell of a job, Gaston & LeFou!

Theon jumps off walls of Winterfell into a snowbank with Ramsay’s wife? Check! Oh, we just established this episode that the snow all melted? Whoops, oh well! Aim for that snow patch!

As expected, Saint Tyrion gets Barristan’s job, because he’s so perfect. Meanwhile, Daario and Jorah team up to go hunt some orc…uh, I mean, rescue Dany. The reappearance of Varys was unwelcome. Brace yourself for more pretentious and anachronistic philosophizing. Next season they’ll be paraphrasing the Declaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Address.

So after all that, Myrcella dies anyway - and by poison lipstick, for crying out loud? Wow. When Ellaria and the Sand Snakes all swaggered away from the dock as if they had accomplished something – and not just murdered an innocent child who wasn’t even an heir or anybody important – I literally laughed out loud. They were directed to come off as badasses, but they just looked like dumbasses. Just last episode, Doran explained to them that any further violence meant death. Are they really willing to die just to stick it to a random Lannister girl? "You marry the good girl but you want the bad pussy." Beautiful summation of the show’s gross caricature of Dorne. Bravo, Gaston & LeFou, bravo!

Good lord, the Walk of Shame went on for way too long. Gaston & LeFou will take a butcher knife to vital parts of the story, hacking characters, scenes, and themes to pieces, but they’re absolutely uncompromising when it comes to nudity. They’re visionaries, really.

We get a long, pointless scene with Drogon, after he was the star of the last episode, but a grand total of a few seconds with Ghost all season long? Makes sense.

OL-LY! OL-LY! OL-LY! OL-LY! I was actually excited for this, in a morbid sort of way. I was not disappointed. The crowd parted and the music played, Olly gave Jon one last crushing look of disapproval, Jon uttered his last words – "Olly!" – and then it was finished. We were mocking Gaston & Lefou’s ham-fisted foreshadowing all season long, and yet the final scene was actually worse than we imagined! They are melting down so badly that they are becoming immune to parody.

In sum, this season was a crime against "A Song of Ice and Fire." Gaston & LeFou are stomping and spitting on the story. Anyone who loves the books - or even just has two brain cells to rub together - should be outraged and offended by this atrocity.

Well said. :bowdown: :bowdown:

For the Plot's a Lark and full of Errors

:thumbsup:

The whole thing between Jaime and Myrcella was very like "it's ok, dad-uncle. I was in a place where all they do is fuck each other, I understand".

Dancle?

Haven't read the piece yet but the title sounds promising:

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/14/stop_defending_game_of_thrones_how_hbo_gutted_the_stories_i_love/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Another on-point article. I hope we see more of these today.

Book: "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"

Show: "...stannis? stannis... stannis..." *deserts*

:D

Whoa whoa whoa!!!!

You left out the world-famous Dothraki Horseback Whirlpool Ride^{TM............}

How silly of us.

It's difficult to add to the comments here, most of which are so well done, but I'll add a few:

Tyrion, Jorah and Daario just reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGTWmrnPdgk

"The Unsullied are the only ones who can keep the peace." REALLY?? The most incompetent fighters ever, according to the showverse.

Faullaria and the Bland Snakes in matching frou-frou dresses. :bang:

Satannis's order to march in formation - well, that's not 'marching in formation' in anyone's book.

Arya's full-on psycho-stabbing disturbed the hell out of me. Not to mention that she can just use the face without instruction. :bs:

It was just atrocious.