Lady Fevre Dream Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 OMG I love your sig hahahaha What siggie? LOL you do know that he really said that, right? As for the Jon issue, I'm not sure what I believe, and even stranger, I don't really care, LOL Isn't that odd? I have to say, if the show is making Kit contractually talk this BS, I do feel bad for him. This poor kid is like......the least into this BS, but has always been the nicest about interviews and promo and TRYING to make it interesting and entertaining, the PR end of it. Still, show wise, I don't care, and I'm just ehh..........either way. I find it hard to believe that Jon will truly 'die' in the books and then return, regardless of AA and prophecy and all, if only because GRRM's point of these resurrections seems to be to point out......how wrong and unnatural it is, IMO, anyway. The resurrections may serve points in the story, but it certainly doesn't look like a fate I'd wish on any character I cared about. I've always thought that is one of the points of the Faceless Men, they believe, religiously, in the fact that people should die when it's their time. They just help speed it up sometimes, LOL I can even see the show using their LSH BS to help cover Jon's return or revival, or whatever. They can use that to back up their BS, but I still don't care, either way. I want to know about the books, and Jon, as for this show....I could really care less. Maybe I should wish all the actors who escape this catastrophe well and hope they get fully realized characters and story in their next gigs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I dont understand why Varys was in Meereen and not King's Landing. I thought his disappearance mid season was to set up him reappearing in King's Landing just after everyone forgot about him, but it was such a let down to see him teleport onto another balcony next to Tyrion. It was a nice parallel between the beginning of hte season and the ending, however, but I would have liked to see him killing Kevan and Pycelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So here is my question: If Jon Snow is truly dead and not coming back in the show, then how does the rest of the story play out? Is it just Dany and St. Tyrion that save Westeros from the Others? Is Jon Snow too being thrown under the bus for St. Tyrion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Campbell Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 why is mel back at castle black if not to bring jon back? what other purpose does she serve? even though this won't make sense either since her magic has been show to be a fraud. i really don't think they're that brave to do something so crazy when they can't even write a basic side plot. "Jon Snow" is dead but AA will be waking up. If Kit is off the show then it will tank because it removes the whole North from the story. Mel is still alive because the actress likes to get naked every season. If she is brought back next season, they will have do a completely different story arc for her. And Jon Snow as AA is a fan theory only at this point. It may even be true in the books, but not in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 If there is one thing I'm sure of in the middle of this unholy mess is that in the books Jon is not dead, nor will he be for some time. It makes absolutely zero narrative sense for Martin to dedicate this much time and development to kill him now 'for hoots and giggles'. Martin doesn't cheat like that, it would be completely against every word he's written so far. As Martin said himself, these things have to be organic and not come outta nowhere just to shock the readers/audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 GRRM said he'd "eventually" find out about his parentage in the books - that he didn't on the show raises flags. They either blew that dramatic opportunity, or there's more to his story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Isn't it a surprise enough that he's dead and will come back next season? Why also have three different people involved in the production insist he is dead then? It's not like the majority of show watchers read those interviews. If they had to give interviews about his death, they could have been super vague. Or, they could have just seeded a resurrection possibility more by having him warg or say "Ghost" :dunno: I think it's their stupidest decision to date, since it's something I never would have expected (killing off a major character), but I can't come up with any actual legitimate reasons as to why they would all blatantly lie. And Hajk is right - it's not actually seeded on the show nearly as much as it is in the books, and a lot of why we are insisting he comes back is because of what we know from the books rather than looking at the show by itself as its own entity. I hope I'm wrong. I hope D&D, Kit, and David Nutter get my wrath by being fucking liars rather than making this dumb as shit decision. Let alone him saying "Ghost", they have not put any emphasis on the warging abilities of any of the Stark children other than Bran (Nymeria's absence being interesting here). At this point it seems quite possible that if R+L=J ever comes out in the show, it will just be a tragic story heard by Dany, but one that may make her better disposed towards the remaining Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkRose_9 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The way the show has worked it is hard to see Jon as the star of the story. His story seemed rather extraneous and boring (as portrayed in the show) to many of the unsullied while the Stark cause was still alive (with Robb still in action). It gains in prominence when it seems like he is the only member of the beloved House Stark left with any substantial prospect or position in the last two seasons. Bran and Rickon are two young, Sansa is so far the perpetual victim and Arya is on a weird revenge quest which precludes her being the central hero figure. Only with the White Walker threat becoming more prominent, the absence of all other Stark contenders and his rising to the leadership position in the last two seasons has his story seemed more central. Up until the Red Wedding, my impression is that most of the unsullied saw Robb as the central hero figure who may eventually return to help his brother in the NW. The unsullied I know says they might be done, because they were literally only watching for Jon. His death really upset them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 GRRM said he'd "eventually" find out about his parentage in the books - that he didn't on the show raises flags. They either blew that dramatic opportunity, or there's more to his story. Not to mention Kit said in that interview that it was what made him saddest that Jon didn't find out about his parentage. That seemed to be an unprovoked remark and a red flag to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Mel is still alive because the actress likes to get naked every season. If she is brought back next season, they will have do a completely different story arc for her. And Jon Snow as AA is a fan theory only at this point. It may even be true in the books, but not in the show. How is the Northern story going to work with no Jon Snow? It won't work. Everything that people thought they were doing with Stoneheart and Fairly is what they ARE doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I might believe it if red dress was still on Arya's hit list, but she dropped her. of course she could magically reappear at any time, coz reasons. It's funny that the show does keep you guessing, but not because of their intricate plotting and masterful twists and turns, but only because you can never be sure which of their exiting facts they will forget, what will disappear or be retconned back in, what is an error and what was done on purpose. Like do the unsullied suck at fighting because their choreography sucks or because they're trying to tell us something? Did the harpies attack nobles for a reason, or because they have no attention to their own story? No one knows, it's a mystery. ITA, this whole post outlines why it's hard to know what matters when it comes to this show and why, finally, I really, really, don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The unsullied I know says they might be done, because they were literally only watching for Jon. His death really upset them. At this point they probably were. I doubt that would have been the case if Jon had been bumped off before Robb. As I said, he has been the more prominent character he is now only since all other Stark fortunes went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One And Only Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Are people really debating if Jon Snow will come back in the show? Of course he is coming back. There is zero chance he won't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Northern Scholar Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The unsullied I know says they might be done, because they were literally only watching for Jon. His death really upset them. The unsullied I watch with feel the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 why is mel back at castle black if not to bring jon back? what other purpose does she serve? even though this won't make sense either since her magic has been show to be a fraud. i really don't think they're that brave to do something so crazy when they can't even write a basic side plot. "Jon Snow" is dead but AA will be waking up. If Kit is off the show then it will tank because it removes the whole North from the story. I think Mel might try and resurrect Jon, but will fail since her magic sucks on the show. And/or Davos will try to kill her and succeed or not, who knows. Maybe she will be a nonentity. Maybe she will just be there with the Wildlings and Davos talking about the Others and how they need to prepare for them, and she'll make that her new mission? I don't know. I think if Kit's off it's because they are really truly trying to make this about one thing and one thing only: the Others come, Dany and her dragons save the realm, she sits the IT (or something along those lines). They killed so many characters this season and I think they'll kill even more next season, and they will set it up for the final season which will probably focus solely on the Others and Dany and her dragons. Again, it's fucking stupid as shit. But I can see them doing this. ETA: Theon, Sansa, Brienne, Pod, and the Boltons are still up north, so there are still a lot of people to care about or watch. BF and his Vale army will also come. Maybe Davos will leave the Wall to search for Rickon after meeting with Sansa somehow. Maybe Theon and Sansa head to the Wall with Brienne, and they stay there instead of going elsewhere. Or they stay for a bit before departing because Jon's dead. They go to WF after BF wins the battle with his Vale troops. Sansa tells Davos about her brothers, and he goes to find Rickon (assuming they're going to bring him back). Maybe Mel will come along to WF if she doesn't stay at the Wall focusing on the Others. Bran is also in the North and will have a part to play. I think he is involved with the Others now so maybe we will get more backstory and stuff with them through Bran. If there is one thing I'm sure of in the middle of this unholy mess is that in the books Jon is not dead, nor will he be for some time. It makes absolutely zero narrative sense for Martin to dedicate this much time and development to kill him now 'for hoots and giggles'. Martin doesn't cheat like that, it would be completely against every word he's written so far. As Martin said himself, these things have to be organic and not come outta nowhere just to shock the readers/audience. Agreed, he will come back in the books, in some way, shape, or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 ITA, this whole post outlines why it's hard to know what matters when it comes to this show and why, finally, I really, really, don't care. I don't care, either, unless a new showrunner who knows Sam is a POV takes over, and they do a Bobby Ewing in the shower thing for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 How is the Northern story going to work with no Jon Snow? It won't work. Everything that people thought they were doing with Stoneheart and Fairly is what they ARE doing now. The Northern story can work quite well as Littlefinger may soon be up there with his troops and what not. The story at the wall may not work that easily, but scenarios can still be created. For example Tormund and co. may start fighting the traitorous crows. What direction Davos and Melisandre will take is not certain. The wall may come down (we're expecting that to happen eventually in the books anyhow) which would make the NW pointless. Maybe the feared Winter will finally come and the WW invasion will start in all its glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One And Only Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The unsullied I watch with feel the same way. And yet the ratings continue to go up according to HBO. The unsullied will continue to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorth's1stKnight Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Are people really debating if Jon Snow will come back in the show? Of course he is coming back. There is zero chance he won't.... yea i think it's crazy that people are believing he's dead because of what he said in an interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Campbell Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 How is the Northern story going to work with no Jon Snow? It won't work. Everything that people thought they were doing with Stoneheart and Fairly is what they ARE doing now. You don't even know what the story in the books is going to be or what the show is is going to be. But I'm sure they will be different. It seems that people having the hardest time with this bad news, are the ones that seem to have adopted fan theories of what they think will happen in the unpublished books. I also agree that Book Jon Snow is probably not permanently dead, but the show isn't going to go that way, and the show runners can change whatever they want. Whether we think it works in the show or not will be our opinion to make when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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