(Spoilers ALL)Jon's eyes shifted in color.

[HousePotterz]

Jon is dead. R + L will be exposed next season, and we will posthumously learn that he was The Prince That Was Promised. The Others overrun the Wall and there is no "hero" (if you can call the first AA that, after he brutally murdered his wife) to stop them there this time.

It's a good tragedy where we learn the identity of the hero only after it's already too late. Very GRRM, and a fück j00 to all the fans who pinned their hopes on Jon after Robb and Ned died.

Nope. You really think the whole point of the guy's life's work is to say "fuck you" to his entire fandom?!? One of GRRM's claims to fame is how he subverts common fantasy tropes, but he is a storyteller at heart, and stories like this all have relatively similar narrative structures. And there is no structure in existence that says, "Introduce character. Attribute growing responsibility to character. Make readers respect character. Hint strongly that character is of great importance to the endgame. Hint strongly that character is central to entire plot. Kill off character in Act II, making Act III an exercise in futility. PROFIT."

Oh ye of little faith in this thread!

1.) Jon Snow, Bastard of Winterfell and 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is dead. And now his watch is ended. We shall never see his like again.

2.) But he is not, I repeat, IS NOT, staying dead. Whether he comes back through warging, ice cells, resurrections, or Other interventions, he is coming back.

3.) You can't see it because it's an interview in a magazine, but Kit Harington's pants were, quite literally, on fire. Seriously, he's lying, and he is kinda contractually obligated to do so. This ain't your run-of-the-mill Ned/Robb death. The Sullied amongst us knew for a certainty those guys were D-E-D dead because of subsequent books. Now we're all caught up, no one outside of George, Dan, and Dave know for sure what role Jon plays going forward. Quite frankly, it surprises me that any book reader who believed Jon was coming back after reading ADWD would blink now because of what Kit says to EW.

4.) Jon Targaryen/Prince That Was Promised/Azor Ahai Reborn get HYPE. "His is the Song of Ice and Fire," and nothing any liarliarpantsonfire says now changes that.

[chris_warrior]

"Do you think this is an angle Martin is intentionally playing, like a kind of simmetry between life and death? Are there other instances of this in the series?

And if so, do you think someone needs to die so Jon can be reborn?" posted by Jon of the Dead on this thread: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/95994-only-death-can-pay-for-life-revisited/

--

i think it's entirely possibly that to *actually* re-birth AA, Melisandre will have to die. that would kill two birds with one stone, in my book. IMHO, though, she's been playing Stannis all along, telling him just enough truth to keep him obedient to R'hllor's will (as interpreted by her) all while knowing it was more than likely he'd ultimately be a sacrafice - him, and his entire line. i'm not crying over the potential death of Stannis (as are some of my friends) because i think, as a character on both show and in the books, he wrote his death long ago: Kinslayer, Kingslayer, Loyalty-questioner, Religious Zealot and the one who ordered hundreds of people burned alive. but Shireen was a blow; she's alive in the books, and i didn't _quite_ expect her to end up getting burned... at least already. i do admit that i thought it possible from the books.

i would sort of hate it - a lot - if in the books, Shireen has to burn to revive Jon Snow. er, Azor Ahai. BUT, i can see it as being possible. i can see Melisandre burning dozens of people, if she needed to, to get the power to revive the one she saw as the Rebirth of R'hllor. i just hope, if it goes that way, hers is the last corpse on that pile. please, writers?

[Sopranos With Swords]

In both the book/show I'm pretty heavily convinced he's coming back. Looking purely at the show's foreshadowing, they have cut a lot but still managed to include Beric. They could have included the brotherhood for Arya's story without Thoros, but they went even further than the book and directly obviously linked it to Mel and had her actively witness that particular magic. They seem to have purposefully avoided resurrection with Stoneheart, so why include that at all if not to foreshadow future events. Then to have Mel return to the wall just in time.. On top of that all the foreshadowing of his importance, it seems really unlikely that he won't come back. The only thing they've neglected to foreshadow quite so much is Jon/Ghost, which if that is significant in the books (likely) might be cut from the show.

Having said that, there's being coy/not revealing spoilers, and then there's this;

“I'm quite dead,” he says with a flourish of his black fur cape. “It's over for Jon Snow — at the very least, he gets to join his family and kin and leave this terrible world behind.”

A very humble, seemingly sincere exit interview. The first comment could be open, the last seems quite final.

[BlueDragon]

Nope. You really think the whole point of the guy's life's work is to say "fuck you" to his entire fandom?!? One of GRRM's claims to fame is how he subverts common fantasy tropes, but he is a storyteller at heart, and stories like this all have relatively similar narrative structures. And there is no structure in existence that says, "Introduce character. Attribute growing responsibility to character. Make readers respect character. Hint strongly that character is of great importance to the endgame. Hint strongly that character is central to entire plot. Kill off character in Act II, making Act III an exercise in futility. PROFIT."

Oh ye of little faith in this thread!

1.) Jon Snow, Bastard of Winterfell and 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is dead. And now his watch is ended. We shall never see his like again.

2.) But he is not, I repeat, IS NOT, staying dead. Whether he comes back through warging, ice cells, resurrections, or Other interventions, he is coming back.

3.) You can't see it because it's an interview in a magazine, but Kit Harington's pants were, quite literally, on fire. Seriously, he's lying, and he is kinda contractually obligated to do so. This ain't your run-of-the-mill Ned/Robb death. The Sullied amongst us knew for a certainty those guys were D-E-D dead because of subsequent books. Now we're all caught up, no one outside of George, Dan, and Dave know for sure what role Jon plays going forward. Quite frankly, it surprises me that any book reader who believed Jon was coming back after reading ADWD would blink now because of what Kit says to EW.

4.) Jon Targaryen/Prince That Was Promised/Azor Ahai Reborn get HYPE. "His is the Song of Ice and Fire," and nothing any liarliarpantsonfire says now changes that.

One would think you are right, but those video interviews seemed so definitive. I would expect them all to demur as Martin did after the last book came out.

If Jon is undead, I won't like it much more. I honestly thought he would recover the way Greyworm did.

I repeat: who the hell is going to fight the WW?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[JonisHenryTudor]

Wow after reading that EW interview Jon might not be coming back... that's interesting.

Well Jon Snow is dead. BUT Jon Stargaryen is not, or AA ;). If anyone questions him, Kit can simply respond with "well you asked if Snow was dead, did you guys forget about Maester Aemon's speech to Jon?"

I personally see this approach as not well done, but they seem to have taken the easy way at covering their tracks. I also don't expect to see Jon inside Ghost for all of WoW. If at all.

I dont see he eyes change.

His blood is flowing in a weird direction. Blood from a stab wound would pool, not flow.

Mel loves kings blood.

There is a lot of it in the snow right now.

Obviously everyone has to say Jon is dead, otherwise it defeats the purpose of the whole scene.

But what if they are not lying. Dead but gets resurrected. None of them would technically be lying.

Interesting observation of the blood flow. I was annoyed that they did not show the smoke and just had a bunch of gut shots.

When Jon is laying there and the blood pools, did you notice how dark they made it. Clearly it is blood, but the darkness and the way it moves is gas-like, or should I say smoke. If you look at the edges of the blood pooling, it sort of swirls as a gas would. It seems like an interesting interpretation of the smokey wound.

[Darryk]

I'm not seeing it

[Sopranos With Swords]

If anyone questions him, Kit can simply respond with "well you asked if Snow was dead, did you guys forget about Maester Aemon's speech to Jon?"

But, they could answer - "Okay, but you said ' least, he gets to join his family and kin and leave this terrible world behind' and he hasn't - in fact he seems to have more duty than ever?"

It's really odd how deep into the lie Kit has gone, presuming he will be coming back which we've all spent the past four (ish?) years convincing ourselves of. I still believe it, but his phrasing is odd.

The blood was really odd, but I have no idea what they meant by it/if it was significant.

He can't be dead..

[JonisHenryTudor]

But, they could answer - "Okay, but you said ' least, he gets to join his family and kin and leave this terrible world behind' and he hasn't - in fact he seems to have more duty than ever?"

It's really odd how deep into the lie Kit has gone, presuming he will be coming back which we've all spent the past four (ish?) years convincing ourselves of. I still believe it, but his phrasing is odd.

The blood was really odd, but I have no idea what they meant by it/if it was significant.

He can't be dead..

Again Snow did all of those :). But if you really want to be picky. Jon will join his family and kin ( Ayra, Sansa, Bran, Rickon and perhaps even Benjen). I am not convinced right now that Bran will be stuck in a tree. If he is, that is a ridiculously absurd thing to do to a character (my opinion of course). They are all his family so Kit technically did not tell a lie.

Or D&D assumed he is an idiot playboy and decided to pull this card. "So listen Kit. You are dead. But we need to you to film for S6 because Bran will be having a series of visions. He will see your death, and it will act as a catalysis for his character. And of course we need to burn your body. But aside from that, thanks for all the hard work you have done"....

Filming begins "Um D&D....why is longclaw on fire?"

[Narvi]

He looks really dead. I think the eye color is more a lighting issue when they where focusing on him. The scary part is if he really is dead who will unite mankind for the war. Danny? /shudders

[TheWatcherofWatchers]

Why would GRRM ask D&D oh so long ago, this particular question, "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" I think there's a reason why he specifically asked this question and Jon Snow isn't dead.

[GrammarYatzy]

It's impossible to believe Jon Snow is dead. $$$ it would be an absurd hit to the books and show. It would bring a very strange end to the whole story of Jon's parentage and it would completely disrupt the narrative of Ice&Fire being a cliche heroic destiny story about Jon&Danny.

Kit's reallly really gone into lying about s6 so it's a little disturbing and gives one pause. But, no amount of head faking can overcome all the obvious reasons why he will still be around

[sweetsunray]

On the shot: yes, as the camera zooms in both his face and his eyes change color - lighter. As if he suddenly pales. Now, that may be the result of the massive blood loss (Didn't see the direwolf in the pooling blood though), and they might have attempted to make it look like his life left him as we watched.

[Wouter]

The show runners, actors and sites like Vulture are sure going all-out to make people believe that Jon is dead and not coming back. Seems they count on gaining even more viewers by making the show more infamous than it really is.

There is no way Jon is not being resurrected (probably by Melisandre, who is present in the books and who just arrived in the show, no longer believing Stannis is/was AA). The show isn't nearly as nihilistic as it is believed to be.

Remember that Kit Harrington is an actor - he can act in interviews, too.

[Hol Horse]

Can't wait to see him next season.

[Juan_Snow]

Why would GRRM ask D&D oh so long ago, this particular question, "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" I think there's a reason why he specifically asked this question and Jon Snow isn't dead.

To me that is what ultimately proves there is more of Jon's story to tell. What significance could the dead mother of some character that dies in act 2 possibly have?

[HouseLark]

No way this series ends without Jon and Dany ever even meeting. Martin's plotting is some of the best I've read in the fantasy genre, maybe the best. He knows what makes a good story even if he sometimes meanders. He's established his world is dangerous, that dead characters stay dead... most of the time. But he's also established that Jon's parentage is important, that Jon's journey is important, and that blood magic is important. The scarcity of magic in Martin's world only reinforces the belief that it will be used in some sort of story-changing way at some point - it isn't like Wheel of Time in which magic is everywhere so you're just waiting for the magical solution to the problem. In ASOIF we've seen magic used only occasionally and only once in a way that feels like a major plot point (the hatching of the dragons). All this "only death can pay for life" stuff will have a huge payoff and that is the rebirth of the Last Hero. Maybe he'll find a razor and go for a short back and sides when he's reborn so Kit Harrington can clean himself up for the role.

[Adam with one D]

Reading a lot of posts about Kit getting into the lying. .. I've seen a lot of posts(not pointing a finger at anyone) about his acting in the past... wouldn't you enjoy trolling the people who said you can't do your job, by doing your job very well?

[House Mosse]

His eyes did change colors. My take?

A White Walker attack is imminent. Jon will be resurrected as a wight in both books and show. In the book, warging Ghost will allow him to keep his consciousness/personality/mind/soul/whatever. In the show, they'll make shit up. Whatever the case, Jon's mind will be able to fight the White Walker's control over his own body and regain it. As he no longer needs to eat, or feels the cold, he'll be able to infiltrate the ranks of the White Walkers, venture into the Lands of Always Winter if needed and be an inside man to take them out.

Dany will burn him at the end, because she won't know any of this. That's the fate of double agents.

Love it!

[HoboJed]

there is no structure in existence that says, "Introduce character. Attribute growing responsibility to character. Make readers respect character. Hint strongly that character is of great importance to the endgame. Hint strongly that character is central to entire plot. Kill off character in Act II

You mean like how he introduced Eddard. Gave Eddard extra responsibility as Hand of the King. Made us respect his honour and integrity. Had him uncover mysteries, making it seem he was important to the end game. And how most of the first series/book was based around his family, making it seem like he was central to the entire plot? Oh, but he died in Act I, not Act II...

Yes, I know you are talking about The Hero's Journey, which Eddard's story didn't fit at all, but I couldn't resist. ;)

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

If Jon is dead for good then that would be a confirmation that the only character that have to survive and the only worth rooting for is Daenerys.