dunneroo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Stannis is alive and here are the reasons why: 1) David Benioff on the inside the episode even says their meeting was not relief for Brienne and not what she expected. She was expecting a monster and what she finds is Stannis and his human qualities like bravery. This is IIRC, not quoted but basically what Benioff says. 2) Do your duty. This obviously effects Brienne as shown by her facial expression. She knows her duty is to protect and help Sansa, and being the true knight she represents, she will not take vengeance on Stannis when she knows he could be useful in saving Sansas life, or perhaps her only chance of saving Sansa. 3) Ambiguity. Not only does the title Mothers Mercy apply to Cersei's situation, but also Brienne showing mercy to Stannis. This was also done in The Gift, as Tyrion was a gift as well as Littlefinger giving Olenna a gift in the form of an incriminating blonde boy.4) Littflefinger says Stannis will win. When have you ever know Baelish to be wrong?5) Stannis sent the better half of his host away. He is merely testing Winterfell's defense and was planning on retreat the whole time. He will re-join is army and team up with Littlefinger and the knights of the vale. Also, I believe the wildings that are now in purgatory, will take the place of the mountain clans and fight for Stannis via Tormund who has the best interest of his people and knows this is the best choice.6) Stannis knows about the wights from Jon Snow while the Boltons are blinded by greed of owning the North and not paying atttention. His host that was sacrificed will reanimate and wreck some havoc on Winterfell. 7) Shireen wasn't burned for nothing. Ramsey and Roose will fight it out when Roose blames Ramsey for Sansa's disappearance. Ramsey will kill Roose in an all out rage fight causing chaos only to be further weakened by an attack of wights. This is the effect of Rholl'or and their sacrifice.8) Melisandre needed a reason to be at the Wall to resurrect Jon Snow. Why? She needed to lose some faith, because Stannis is not Azor Ahai reborn. She needs to re-evaluate and decide its Snow she keeps seeing when asking to see her champion of light in her fires. Why else did the showrunners go through the effort of having her meet Beric Dondarrion and Thoros and given the information on reviving the dead.9) Stephen Dilane. The best actor on GoT not named Peter Dinklage. Sorry for spelling/grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Stannis is alive and here are the reasons why: 1) David Benioff on the inside the episode even says their meeting was not relief for Brienne and not what she expected. She was expecting a monster and what she finds is Stannis and his human qualities like bravery. This is IIRC, not quoted but basically what Benioff says. 2) Do your duty. This obviously effects Brienne as shown by her facial expression. She knows her duty is to protect and help Sansa, and being the true knight she represents, she will not take vengeance on Stannis when she knows he could be useful in saving Sansas life, or perhaps her only chance of saving Sansa. 3) Ambiguity. Not only does the title Mothers Mercy apply to Cersei's situation, but also Brienne showing mercy to Stannis. This was also done in The Gift, as Tyrion was a gift as well as Littlefinger giving Olenna a gift in the form of an incriminating blonde boy. 4) Littflefinger says Stannis will win. When have you ever know Baelish to be wrong? 5) Stannis sent the better half of his host away. He is merely testing Winterfell's defense and was planning on retreat the whole time. He will re-join is army and team up with Littlefinger and the knights of the vale. Also, I believe the wildings that are now in purgatory, will take the place of the mountain clans and fight for Stannis via Tormund who has the best interest of his people and knows this is the best choice. 6) Stannis knows about the wights from Jon Snow while the Boltons are blinded by greed of owning the North and not paying atttention. His host that was sacrificed will reanimate and wreck some havoc on Winterfell. 7) Shireen wasn't burned for nothing. Ramsey and Roose will fight it out when Roose blames Ramsey for Sansa's disappearance. Ramsey will kill Roose in an all out rage fight causing chaos only to be further weakened by an attack of wights. This is the effect of Rholl'or and their sacrifice. 8) Melisandre needed a reason to be at the Wall to resurrect Jon Snow. Why? She needed to lose some faith, because Stannis is not Azor Ahai reborn. She needs to re-evaluate and decide its Snow she keeps seeing when asking to see her champion of light in her fires. Why else did the showrunners go through the effort of having her meet Beric Dondarrion and Thoros and given the information on reviving the dead. 9) Stephen Dilane. The best actor on GoT not named Peter Dinklage. Sorry for spelling/grammar. 1,2,3,9 yes The rest, just no. Stannis is all in, he rolled the dice and lost. The cavalry he was facing was the sellswords he had hired turned to the boltons after he murdered his daughter. Stannis may live but he needs a redemption plot arc. Like joining the Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Flashheart Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 elio said 99%...So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombies That Were Promised Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Great discussions! I was sure Stannis was dead on first viewing, but I think it's 50/50. On one hand, you have the arc of him losing everything and then dying. Which makes sense. OTOH, his ambiguous death is exactly where we are left with him in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Great discussions! I was sure Stannis was dead on first viewing, but I think it's 50/50. On one hand, you have the arc of him losing everything and then dying. Which makes sense. OTOH, his ambiguous death is exactly where we are left with him in the books. Why is it so difficult to accept that characters have to die in the show as the story reaches the endgame? (perhaps because Martin has a habit of not permanently killing characters?) Stannis is done, his story is done, he's a man who was blinded by personal ambition and a witch telling him he was special, he betrayed his family and he ended up as a broken man. There are only two seasons left, and things need to change, the story needs to advance and characters who won't be relevant to the end game have to go. Stannis is not going to be relevant (he isn't a POV character in the books, therefore he's not a protagonists). Keeping him alive in season 6 has absolutely no logic at all: what is he supposed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I just hope Martin reads this and name daven and dannen a couple of karstarks, and let stannis hang them before the battle of ice. Then he can do whatever he intends to do with the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltharion21 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wow, so much denial in this thread. He is dead , better reason not to show explicitly killing blow it is to troll fans with him like they did with Benjen or Lady Stonehart, or duck... They totaly ruined character turning it into one dimensional zealot , non existent positive character features like good general or just character , in the show he is just all guns blazing dude who will do everything to win the throne. I think it's for the better, now they can make more space for Daenerys and Dorne scenes, and by casting Randyll Tarley they will have another authority figure to butcher next year. https://38.media.tumblr.com/f462c5b2daea77d14e6b1468116d61b4/tumblr_npz3jgP69Q1tk5hpho2_250.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorEmixam Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Why is it so difficult to accept that characters have to die in the show as the story reaches the endgame? (perhaps because Martin has a habit of not permanently killing characters?) Stannis is done, his story is done, he's a man who was blinded by personal ambition and a witch telling him he was special, he betrayed his family and he ended up as a broken man. There are only two seasons left, and things need to change, the story needs to advance and characters who won't be relevant to the end game have to go. Stannis is not going to be relevant (he isn't a POV character in the books, therefore he's not a protagonists). Keeping him alive in season 6 has absolutely no logic at all: what is he supposed to do?Why is it so difficult to accept that you are just assuming stuff. The guy said 50/50 which is what the show wanted to. A broken man is not a dead man even if he has nothing to loose anymore, thats just another assumption to say his story is over, or maybe you are GrrM or D&D?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 or maybe you are D&D?..theres no need to insult an other poster. Thats was uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorEmixam Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 theres no need to insult an other poster. Thats was uncalled for.Lol I'm so sorry, I went too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy1 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 This debate shows why you rarely get subtlety in TV shows - many people just don't get it. Not showing Stannis's death symbolised the fact that he was already a dead man inside, and that his physical death was insignificant compared to when he lost his soul. Imagine how tacky it would feel if they showed his head rolling along the floor for 5 seconds, or if he was beheaded in the same way as Slynt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny__bravo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If he is dead, killing TV Stannis is a mercy both for him and all book readers the way his story arc has developed this and previous seasons.D&D clearly wanted to portray him as being ambitious and single minded, who was willing to sacrifice his family, legacy and men to satisfy his own lust for power.True its an adaptation and they can choose to imbue characters with which ever personal motivations they please, I struggle to think of a character who closely resembles their book counterpart at this stage of the series. However while motivations and personal desires can be subject to change, the actions taken to fulfill those motivations or ambitions need to be closely aligned with the way the book characters would act or its simply a different character full stop. In the case of TV Stannis, both his motivations and actions have been altered drastically. While his book situation in the preview to TWOW is desperate, and a kings blood sacrifice may well be made, can anyone really see him charging head first on foot into massed Bolton/Frey army? No didn't think so.All the Baratheon's in the books may end up dying or being sacrificed, but it will be in keeping with the overall narrative and story arcs which have been developed across the books, not simply down to the whim of TV producers who would rather wrap up a storyline rather than let it reach a conclusion on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snfo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Stannis may live but he needs a redemption plot arc. Like joining the Watch. I tried to post a new topic on a theory for this but it's not showing up for some reason... Maybe they're saving Stannis to fulfill Davos' book plot line of finding Rickon on Skagos. Stannis, Brienne, and Pod could hear about Rickon from Theon/Sansa after they run into them outside Winterfell. Maybe they could (somehow, I know it's far-fetched but that's never stopped the show before) track where Osha and Rickon went and Stannis finding Rickon could serve as a redemptive arc next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The thing is this, Brienne may be a brute but every one knows Renly was a userper. The show says Stannis is dead so he is dead, the story has to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis' shadow babies Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 5) Stannis sent the better half of his host away. Sorry, I must have missed this one. When did this happen? (If so, they may be out there and rally behind Brienne and Sansa) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorEmixam Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I tried to post a new topic on a theory for this but it's not showing up for some reason... Maybe they're saving Stannis to fulfill Davos' book plot line of finding Rickon on Skagos. Stannis, Brienne, and Pod could hear about Rickon from Theon/Sansa after they run into them outside Winterfell. Maybe they could (somehow, I know it's far-fetched but that's never stopped the show before) track where Osha and Rickon went and Stannis finding Rickon could serve as a redemptive arc next season.I think Davos will play Davos' part. I cant see what else he would do in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I just read Nutter's comments and he says the cut away was written in the script rather than being his directorial decision. Basically those using his comments to back up the idea that Stannis is definitely dead need to look at what he is actually saying not what you want him to say (which is very interesting considering that the Brienne actress said it was due to the director being artistic with the shots). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I cannot wait until halfway through Season 6 when it is apparent that neither Jon, nor Catelyn, nor Stannis is coming back from the dead and we can put all the fan theory speculation to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colakki Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I really want to believe he is alive, I really do, but what convinces me he isn't are the interviews with actors. For example with Liam Cunningham, Davos' actor: They even arranged a good bye dinner for Stephen Dillane. It is really a shame he is dead, not only for the character, but also the very talented actor....nobody nailing the character he has to play as precisely as Stephen did nail Stannis. Maybe Tyrion is close, but all others are far away http://www.accesshollywood.com/game-of-thrones-liam-cunningham-on-saying-goodbye-to-his-co-star_article_108851 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Patroclo Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I understand that Brienne wants vengeance for Renly's murder... but it sounded so strange to hear her address him as 'rightful king of the andals'. Everyone knows that his claim was void. He could become King if he won the war, but he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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