dsengr Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Killing jon makes no narrative sense so I highly doubt he's dead. I think he'll warg into ghost while Mel revives his body, thus avoiding "losing a part of himself" as beric claimed happened to him. Something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenesse Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 And we wonder why the rest of the realm don't take the NW seriously. When the group of men charged with the wall's defence don't know what and who they are fighting why should anyone else who are thousands of miles believe them. Obviously the NW brothers whoever is remaining that still believes in WW might fight the mutineers or run south of the wall into the wildlings camp. Jon always comes back, but he might be changed, he might not be the same honourable man anymore, the man with an uncorrupted soul, he won't be evil or anything but maybe more ruthless. I just worry about Mel's influence I don't think there is a red god and she is an idiot, will she be advising Jon to start sacrificing men to save the NW from WW, god I hope not we don't need another Stannis 2.0 We have already seen the consequences of blind religious fanaticism. I hope Jon is not stupid enough to fall in Mel's trap and doesn't repeats Stannis mistakes again. Hmm, from what we've seen of him so far (unless he's changed very dramatically, which is possible) I don't think Jon will make the same mistakes as Stannis. Stannis will not bend and will see things through to the bitter end, but Jon is infinitely more flexible and he was always wary of Melisandre in his encounters with her in both the book and show. Jon has been known to change his opinions, his experience with the Wildlings shows that; he starts to see them as fellow human beings as opposed to mere savages. Hopefully, he will keep some of those traits but I think he will definitely be more ruthless if he does come back. If it's anything like Beric Dondarrion, it's more likely that bits of his character will be chipped away slightly but essentially he's the same man, just not as trusting maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Theon might be going to the wall. That fool definitely has kingsblood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coatzin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Hope Mel brings Jon back... then they offer Olly (and all the traitors) to the red god... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindke Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The thing I hate most about the Nights Watch scene was Alliser Thorne stabbing Jon I felt that was grossly out of line and out of character for him, I thought he was a man of honor, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraAgnes Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Good riddance. They make republicans seem open-minded.You make me smile. We think alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Deleted] Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The thing I hate most about the Nights Watch scene was Alliser Thorne stabbing Jon I felt that was grossly out of line and out of character for him, I thought he was a man of honor, :agree: Even though Thorne doesn't like Jon, he never struck me as someone who would actually kill one of his Black Brothers. I actually hoped/expected he'd tried to save Jon, not be the first one to stab him. Completely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Olly is the next LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The nightwatch has no strength for fighting the Wildlings, and the Boltons surely don't care to fight them right now... Roose Bolton policy is to wait for spring. The season will end with the white walkers butchering the brothers of the night watch, and they will all realize that they did a mistake when Azor Ahai shows up with the Wildlings at his back, davos at his side and Melisandre's head on a flaming spike sword I really want this. I'm hoping Mel and Davos will wisk Jon away and resurrect him, without the Nights Watch knowing and then Jon will send Davos to Dragonstone to get dragonglass to equip the Wildlngs with. Then Jon turns up and is like, "Did you miss me lads?" and they shit themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 i just dont understand what was holding them back from killing jon earlier like wouldnt of been smarter to kill him before he led the suicide mission to hard home? Jon mentioned that he was unpopular now for getting men of the Night's Watch killed saving the lives of wildlings, so that probably convinced brothers that weren't into killing him before. Remember, they didn't know there would be an attack when they went to Hardhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSasoiaf Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Because they see Jon's allegiance to the Wildlings as a threat, and as a betrayal; they're so blinded by their intolerance that they can't see the more immediate (and infinitely more serious) threat of the White Walkers. As for Ghost, who can say? Castle Black isn't tiny, he could have been anywhere, he could have been asleep, or Alliser (or anyone else) could have killed Ghost like the Freys did to Grey Wind. As far as Sam, the reason they waited is because Sam or Gilly could have overheard their plans (possibly, given the conspiratorial nature of all this); that, or it's just a coincidence that they did it after he'd left. Ser Alliser doesn't see the White Walkers as a threat because he hasn't seen what Jon saw, and part of me thinks that he doesn't even believe (or want to believe) what Jon said he saw at Hardhome. Quick reality check: Ser Alliser was the one who just opened the door to the whole gang. Just let that sink...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grandmaster Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Perhaps it is just that it was never shown onscreen, but Jon never sat down and explained to anyone what exactly happened at Hardhome. The only person he seemingly told was Sam. If Jon had actually given some reasoning behind his seemingly reckless actions, then perhaps the NW men might've been able to see his side of the story, or at least think twice about murdering him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Killing jon makes no narrative sense so I highly doubt he's dead. I think he'll warg into ghost while Mel revives his body, thus avoiding "losing a part of himself" as beric claimed happened to him. Something like that ^^This. I'm of the opinion that the cliffhanger in the book was cheap, and doubly so in the show. The only reason to kill Jon Snow is so he can fulfill some AA prophecy and be released from his vow to the Night's Watch. The first isn't a major factor in the books, and the second could be accomplished by having the NIght's Watch disbanded when the wall falls. If Jon needs to be released in order to rule the seven kingdoms, it won't matter until the WW are defeated and the Night's Watch is a moot point anyway. I see no reason to have killed Jon except to provide a cheap shock. Raising people from the dead is a poor narrative device that GRRM has relied on too much, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSasoiaf Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Perhaps it is just that it was never shown onscreen, but Jon never sat down and explained to anyone what exactly happened at Hardhome. The only person he seemingly told was Sam. If Jon had actually given some reasoning behind his seemingly reckless actions, then perhaps the NW men might've been able to see his side of the story, or at least think twice about murdering him. Neither Jon neither anyone who got back from that adventure. Which only as one thing behind: It was out of place from the books and they dont care to write around it to fix the new placing. It is just sad. These people dont deserve their pay....at least not on the levels they get. It was easy to fix! Example: Have it be discussed. Have someone say that they are safe behind the wall. The wall´s magic will protect them from whatever is on the other side. Therefore, Thorne and Jon were guilty of bringing plenty of wildlings to the wrong side of the wall. So....kill Thorne and Jon before they open the door to the army of the dead because.....who knows....if they dont believe on the Wall´s magic, they may be capable of anything. This was what was needed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One And Only Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Nights Watch is done with. The reason why the Nights Watch went to crap is because The Starks no longer ruled the north anymore. When Ned Stark was in charge, NW members got their heads removed for doing wrong. There is no checks and balances anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ben Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 In season 1 Aemon Targaryen told Tyrion that this group of Nights Watch was no good. That they needed better type of men to man the wall. But, I guess when all of the seven kingdoms have been sending them men that are rapists and murderers, you can only work with what you have. WAIT!! So you're saying that Stannis will take the black?!?! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polythenehigh Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Nights Watch is done with. The reason why the Nights Watch went to crap is because The Starks no longer ruled the north anymore. When Ned Stark was in charge, NW members got their heads removed for doing wrong. There is no checks and balances anymore. As seen when Sam tells Jon he slept with Gilly.. Anyone else think that Olly killing Jon snow feels like if Wesley Crusher killed Jean Luc Picard? That level of hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSasoiaf Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Nights Watch is done with. The reason why the Nights Watch went to crap is because The Starks no longer ruled the north anymore. When Ned Stark was in charge, NW members got their heads removed for doing wrong. There is no checks and balances anymore. As far as we know, he only killed desertors that got too far south into his hands. He was not the one in charge for Castle Black or the Nights Watch. He was not the law at the wall. There was kind of a status quo of some knights and noble born always up there to keep some hierarchy and discipline. If Ned Stark had any effect, they should all be dead a couple seasons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polythenehigh Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Think we all know that if Ned stark was lord of Winterfell and they betrayed and killed Jon the nights watch would be having a rather rapid clearout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rise Above Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 As far as we know, he only killed desertors that got too far south into his hands. He was not the one in charge for Castle Black or the Nights Watch. He was not the law at the wall. There was kind of a status quo of some knights and noble born always up there to keep some hierarchy and discipline. If Ned Stark had any effect, they should all be dead a couple seasons ago. Yeah. The NW had guys like Mormont, Benjen, Yoren, and Aemon to keep shit in line. Thorne is obviously a capable capable leader but he's too much of a bitter asshole to see beyond his own shortsightedness (I suspect he will before his end, though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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