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Are you guys think that Stannis lose the battle of winterfell? (Spoiler)


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and really is there another way for the character to end?



somehow a tragic end is the exact befitting resolution for a man of his solemn disposition



this was never his story, it's a song of fire and ice and he's neither targ or stark




I think he wins Battle of Ice and whatever happens at Winterfell. I think all we learn from the show is what (save for overly-hopeful and delusional folks) is that he'll meet a tragic end after giving up and sacrificing (perhaps) everything. Whether in TWOW or ADOS.



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I don't know anymore. It seems mind boggling he would lose the battle of winterfell and die, it would be a very, very disappointing end to his story. at some point, really, we need to see the team not assholes start getting some wins. shock and awe gets old, killing favorite characters to prove you are subverting tropes and memes gets old. i don't want to read a multiple book series where every character i ever cared about is fucking dead at the end.


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He'll win the battle or at least make an impact on the story should he die.



Don't see him simply dying alone in the woods the way it is set up in the books though, without achieving anything or clear the path for another (northern) character

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I can see him dying trying to take Winterfell. If Mel revives Jon, as many people have theorized, and he becomes AAR, what happens to Stannis's cause? Mel's clearly not going to stick around with Stannis if he's not AA and many of the Queen's Men (and quite a few of the King's) are diehard R'hllor worshipers and will desert Stannis if Mel does.



Basically, if Jon rises as AA, Stannis's cause falters and fails. Either he can live to see himself deemed a fake or he can die before he learns the truth.


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Agreed. But to say I consider the Show a joke is understating my contempt for it.

Note, I don't think Stannis succeeds in taking Winterfell. But I do think he survives the Battle of Ice.

After that, any one of Bran, Manderly, revived Jon, the Hooded Man or even Rickon comes into play, none of whom require Stannis's presence to take the plot further.

How it all plays out I have no idea.

we discussed a lot in the past... the show has made my position much weaker.

At this point it would be enough for me if he goes down as a competent commander (not as ep 10) and without doing episode 9, which D&D said is "book canon".

Unlist Im almost sure its impossible for him in the books to fail in both cases, since to do 9, 10 has to be played different. Or vice versa.

I guess Ill jump into team snow since I cant swallow daenerys.

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I don't know anymore. It seems mind boggling he would lose the battle of winterfell and die, it would be a very, very disappointing end to his story. at some point, really, we need to see the team not assholes start getting some wins. shock and awe gets old, killing favorite characters to prove you are subverting tropes and memes gets old. i don't want to read a multiple book series where every character i ever cared about is fucking dead at the end.

Its sad that you don't like Dany then, the only character in the series who gets some sort of payback ALWAYS :P

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If I was writing I would have Stannis relieve Jon at the wall, after he loses the battle and sacrifices everything, so Jon can go and do his thing and for Stannis to try and hold back the WW or at least delay them



it would be a good arc for his story to end. Then he can die fighting the right war agains the WW





I can see him dying trying to take Winterfell. If Mel revives Jon, as many people have theorized, and he becomes AAR, what happens to Stannis's cause? Mel's clearly not going to stick around with Stannis if he's not AA and many of the Queen's Men (and quite a few of the King's) are diehard R'hllor worshipers and will desert Stannis if Mel does.



Basically, if Jon rises as AA, Stannis's cause falters and fails. Either he can live to see himself deemed a fake or he can die before he learns the truth.



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If I was writing I would have Stannis relieve Jon at the wall, after he loses the battle and sacrifices everything, so Jon can go and do his thing and for Stannis to try and hold back the WW or at least delay them

it would be a good arc for his story to end. Then he can die fighting the right war agains the WW

Always got the impression from the books, that if he should take Winterfell the way south is blocked anyway and the Others as coming so that's the only thing he can do anyway.

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Nagging feeling he isn't done yet in the show. I came up with this last night after rewatching- what the hell are they going to do with brienne without Stannis? 1. Who is she going to go to with sansa? There is a huge problem without stannis- she has no allies and when davos here's she killed stannis what do you think is going to happen? The North also needs a leader and with Jon "dead" and with everyone who knows rickon is alive gone stannis is about all they have.



On the other side of this is why keep him alive? There is no point. He is wounded, unable to fight, and broken. I honestly don't know what to think.



The pink letter in the book is all sorts of chaos. I am throughly confused on how Rams knows about the Red woman, slyse and shireen make sense but why mance's child?


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Nagging feeling he isn't done yet in the show. I came up with this last night after rewatching- what the hell are they going to do with brienne without Stannis? 1. Who is she going to go to with sansa? There is a huge problem without stannis- she has no allies and when davos here's she killed stannis what do you think is going to happen? The North also needs a leader and with Jon "dead" and with everyone who knows rickon is alive gone stannis is about all they have.

I think she offed him for good, the shot where she brings down the sword doesn't look like a beheading, she straight out slashes at him.

If it turns out she let him live I have two theories:

1) Stannis takes the black and somehow gets involved with the White Walkers. Should be interesting with Davos and Mel at the wall...

2) He joins Brienne and they rescue Sansa +Theon somehow. They then get mixed up with retrieving Rickon or the Manderlys or something that would. Pink letter might exist but it's Davos who learns about it and reveals Theon and Sansa are gone.

Thus vaguely merging Davos' and Stannis' book plotlines with Brienne's show one.

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So in your opinion how do the Starks recover the North?

The Mountain clans are doomed if this happens, the Umbers and Karstarks too, Manderlys lose their leader, so how can someone destroy Roose

Your scenario is near impossible plot wise, We only have two books left and it would take a lot more time than we have for the Starks to have a new army capable of challenging the Boltons

Most of the Manderly forces aren't with the Boltons.

The clans won't be expelled from their mountains because they lost a battle in the plain.

Alys Karstark is ruling Karhold.

Vale forces may move north to push Sansa's claim.

Wildling army.

But does it really matter...?

North is doomed anyway because Winter and the Others are coming. Where's the need to make the Starks lose it again instead of the Boltons ?

Everything needed is some PoV around the day the deads will come for them if we want to see Boltons fall.

And even if the story was about the reconquest of the north from the Boltons by the Starks.

What's the interest to make some stranger like Stannis take it for them (without a Stark even being involved) when say Jon can be revived, revealed Robb's heir and conquer it himself (don't think it will happen either, but it would make a far more enjoyable Stark revenge fantasy if it really was grrm goal).

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I think she offed him for good, the shot where she brings down the sword doesn't look like a beheading, she straight out slashes at him.

If it turns out she let him live I have two theories:

1) Stannis takes the black and somehow gets involved with the White Walkers. Should be interesting with Davos and Mel at the wall...

2) He joins Brienne and they rescue Sansa +Theon somehow. They then get mixed up with retrieving Rickon or the Manderlys or something that would. Pink letter might exist but it's Davos who learns about it and reveals Theon and Sansa are gone.

Thus vaguely merging Davos' and Stannis' book plotlines with Brienne's show one.

Number two is more likely. It's been with my line of thought and it makes sense. Brienne rescuing Rickon by her self is tough. SHe need's a third man and theon is broken and podrick.... is incapable.

Yet, what you said makes sense. Why keep him alive? There is no point.

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Well well well. First they ruin Stannis character in the show and make everyone hate him and then make him lose a battle so easy. What in the seven hells. He might loose in winds of winter to my sadness, but I am not at all sure of that outcome, because of the chaos caused by Crowfood Umber and Mandarly's might secretly be already on Stannis side. Book Stannis is a better person and deserves a better last fight than that shit show gave.


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Obviously, the show does not follow the books all that close - Sansa, Brienne, Jorah and Jaime among others are in places and situations that just can't be reconciled with the books. Also, Stannis himself has made it very plain that he does not care much about his odds of winning; he just does whatever has a better chance of not leading to a loss, regardless of risk or dishonor. That is true even in the TV show, which booted out the barbecue-maker of the books to present a fanfic family-friendly version of the character in his place.


Far from making it clear that Stannis will win, ADWD makes it rather very clear that he is close to total ruin. His soldiers are resorting to cannibalism to avoid starving to death. He does have a couple of cards in his sleeve, but certainly nothing that ensures his victory or even his survival for long enough to face the Boltons.


Also, this is medieval battle. Not the most predictable of things to begin with.


But it seems to me that the real issue is that the trailing two episodes of season 5 made it clear that even the show version of Stannis, sanitized as he is, is still not honorable nor a particularly central character, a revelation that many people seem to have trouble with.

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Jeyne escaping makes sense (though if Stannis had been defeated I don't see why it would be too difficult for Ramsay to hunt down Massey and his men), but Theon is being kept with Stannis, for him to escape from the Boltons in the event of a complete defeat for Stannis he would have to escape his bondage, find food, weapons, a horse, clothes, and then figure out where he is and where he is going.

If Stannis is defeated by Freys and Ramsay and Theon manages to escape, I can only see him trying to die fighting or kill Ramsay, with escape and capture both being impossible.

Based on that I think it is fair to assume that if Ramsay wrote the letter then Theon must be being held somewhere, probably by Stannis.

Exactly how Ramsay will be convinced IDK, Stannis will have to run into Manderly at some point, this may end up with Stannis trying to execute him immediately, otherwise Manderly is able to convince Stannis he didn't kill Davos (maybe he got him to write something before he departed White Harbour), at least to the extent that Stannis is willing to wait and see if Davos shows up before judging him guilty.

If he manages to get Wyman's men (with Wyman himself possibly remaining with Stannis) then he can simply send them with the Karstarks (who are his to command through his hostages) and his own men disguised as some of the Freys to Ramsay with Lightbringer.

When the men are in Winterfell they and Whoresbane's men open the gates for Stannis, the majority of his southrons, and the clansmen to pour in and slaughter the Boltons.

At least that's how I see Stannis' plan working, there's plenty of ways it can go wrong, and also the wildcards of the Hooded Man, Rickon and Davos showing up, and any other Manderly forces that may exist around Winterfell.

Sorry. I meant to say, Jeyne went to the Wall. Theon went to the Heart tree, of course...
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It's bizarre that someone could see the show character as being more hesitant to burn people than the book character.

Why? Show Stannis never made a point of stating his relutance in refusing to kill Edric Storm, for one. IIRC he was not made to kill whole villages for R'hllor in ACOK either. Nor did he kill Cortnay Penrose out of personal convenience. And he did enjoy a lot of sympathetic scenes that canon Stannis has been denied, as well.

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Why? Show Stannis never made a point of stating his relutance in refusing to kill Edric Storm, for one. IIRC he was not made to kill whole villages for R'hllor in ACOK either. Nor did he kill Cortnay Penrose out of personal convenience. And he did enjoy a lot of sympathetic scenes that canon Stannis has been denied, as well.

wtf?
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