Are you guys think that Stannis lose the battle of winterfell? (Spoiler)

[Stormland's Fury]

Why? Show Stannis never made a point of stating his relutance in refusing to kill Edric Storm, for one. IIRC he was not made to kill whole villages for R'hllor in ACOK either. Nor did he kill Cortnay Penrose out of personal convenience. And he did enjoy a lot of sympathetic scenes that canon Stannis has been denied, as well.

Well, he does say that he's reluctant and he didn't really care that Davos shipped him off in the end. Most burnings were done by Mel in his absence, and the few he orders personally are mostly for people that will be executed anyway, so he just kills two birds with a stone.

Also he shares actually a laugh with Davos in private, scoffs at Lightbringer and Mel on several occassions and , you know, doesn't try to cop-a-feel instead.

Then there's also the "pray harder" line.

[The Drunkard]

Why? Show Stannis never made a point of stating his relutance in refusing to kill Edric Storm, for one. IIRC he was not made to kill whole villages for R'hllor in ACOK either. Nor did he kill Cortnay Penrose out of personal convenience. And he did enjoy a lot of sympathetic scenes that canon Stannis has been denied, as well.

Because show-Stannis burned everyone who refused to convert and anyone who criticized Melisandre, agreed to burn Gendry within minutes of seeing him, and burned Shireen because he got some bad weather. Book Stannis never burned anyone for refusing to convert or for criticizing Melisandre, took months of convincing and the deaths of three kings to be at the point where he would agree to burn Edric, and refused to burn an unbeliever to lift the storm (despite being in even worse conditions). It's inarguable.

Penrose and and soppy father Stannis are irrelevant regarding his willingness to burn people.

[LuisDantas]

Well, he does say that he's reluctant and he didn't really care that Davos shipped him off in the end. Most burnings were done by Mel in his absence, and the few he orders personally are mostly for people that will be executed anyway, so he just kills two birds with a stone.

Also he shares actually a laugh with Davos in private, scoffs at Lightbringer and Mel on several occassions and , you know, doesn't try to cop-a-feel instead.

Then there's also the "pray harder" line.

Yeah... he is basically your archetypical Mafia Capo, Westeros-style. He only rarely orders someone killed if he can convince an accomplice to do it on his stead. After all, he has a reputation to care for.

Such a flower of a person.

[Stormland's Fury]

Yeah... he is basically your archetypical Mafia Capo, Westeros-style. He only rarely orders someone killed if he can convince an accomplice to do it on his stead. After all, he has a reputation to care for.

Such a flower of a person.

That doesn't even make any sense. What has that to do with burnings?

And who said he was a saint, that wasn't even the point.

[Marcus Agrippa]

There is a lot wrong with this. The book has foreshadowed Stannis winning. There are a thousand threads on it I don't think its worth going over again. Littlefinger is going to move north and cleary going to send the vale knights to kill stannis and rickon.

[Bran the Bodybuilder]

Yeah... he is basically your archetypical Mafia Capo, Westeros-style. He only rarely orders someone killed if he can convince an accomplice to do it on his stead. After all, he has a reputation to care for.

Such a flower of a person.

Well yes, but there's a gigantic difference. When he orders someone killed/burned he does it beacause that someone is a traitor, not beacause he doesn't like him or beacause the respective person refuses his protection(which is what an archetypical Mafia Capo would do). Stannis doesn't even offer protection, he claim he's the rightful king and you either follow him or die. That's not Mafia. Your analogy makes no sense.

[Truly Just Man]

There is a lot wrong with this. The book has foreshadowed Stannis winning. There are a thousand threads on it I don't think its worth going over again. Littlefinger is going to move north and cleary going to send the vale knights to kill stannis and rickon.

Can't see it happening because

1) He doesn't have the control over his lords he has in the show, for instance.

2) Winter has come.

[Stormland's Fury]

Can't see it happening because

1) He doesn't have the control over his lords he has in the show, for instance.

He had lords in the show? Looked more like it was just him and his 20 not-so-good men.

[Truly Just Man]

He had lords in the show? Looked more like it was just him and his 20 not-so-good men.

That is what the show suggested. Also Lord Royce seemed to be on good terms with Littlefinger.

[Stormland's Fury]

That is what the show suggested. Also Lord Royce seemed to be on good terms with Littlefinger.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Stannis, not Littlefinger.

[Swordofthemornin]

Im sorry but where does this theory of a battle on ice come from? A battle in which the outcome supposedly ends with one army falling through the ice.

Ive read ADWD all be it very quickly and I dont recall talk of an Ice lake around Winterfell.

Its a nice idea granted, but is there anything in the txt to back it up?

[Stormland's Fury]

Im sorry but where does this theory of a battle on ice come from? A battle in which the outcome supposedly ends with one army falling through the ice.

Ive read ADWD all be it very quickly and I dont recall talk of an Ice lake around Winterfell.

Its a nice idea granted, but is there anything in the txt to back it up?

The crofter's village where Stannis has his camp. It's directly by a lake full of holes in the ice because his men try to fish.

[Swordofthemornin]

The crofter's village where Stannis has his camp. It's directly by a lake full of holes in the ice because his men try to fish.

Thanks for clearing that up :cheers:

[Lost Melnibonean]

Thanks for clearing that up :cheers:

And there's this parallel in the real world...

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Battle_on_the_Ice

[lancerman]

As much as I like Stannis and wanted him to survive I don't see it.

I've always viewed him as a relic of the War of the Five Kings. He also needs to pay for the sin of killing his brother. You just don't get a happy ending after that.

The Battle of Winterfell story just feels like it's set up. Make it seem important like the big hero Stannis is going to crush the Bolton's and take back the North for the Starks. When we've already moved past that. We know these politics and short term battles mean nothing when the army of the dead come. Stannis defeat along with Jon Snow's stabbing is just bringing the story two it's lowest point.

It's no mistake that Jon's story, Winterfell's story, Dany's story, the King's Landing story, Brienne and Jamie''s story are all hitting their lowest points at the same time. The upswing is going to be a great ride though.

[Swordofthemornin]

As much as I like Stannis and wanted him to survive I don't see it.

I've always viewed him as a relic of the War of the Five Kings. He also needs to pay for the sin of killing his brother. You just don't get a happy ending after that.

The Battle of Winterfell story just feels like it's set up. Make it seem important like the big hero Stannis is going to crush the Bolton's and take back the North for the Starks. When we've already moved past that. We know these politics and short term battles mean nothing when the army of the dead come. Stannis defeat along with Jon Snow's stabbing is just bringing the story two it's lowest point.

It's no mistake that Jon's story, Winterfell's story, Dany's story, the King's Landing story, Brienne and Jamie''s story are all hitting their lowest points at the same time. The upswing is going to be a great ride though.

I agree, or at least I hope you are right.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

He had lords in the show? Looked more like it was just him and his 20 not-so-good men.

Yeah, believe it or not, some of those demoralized men are supposed to be lords and knights in his army. So not only did the Baratheons go the way fo the Blackfyres in the show, but so did half of the Stormland houses since the show doesn't believe in the routing or surrender of armies.

I think he will win the battle against the Freys and the Boltons in the books. I actually think the GNC is real now, and that the a Northerners will betray him, which will

prompt him to retreat back to the wall right at the moment it's about to fall to the Others. He'll die there, probably after a futile burning of Shireen.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

There is a lot wrong with this. The book has foreshadowed Stannis winning. There are a thousand threads on it I don't think its worth going over again.

It is just wishful thinking.

Of course there is a lot of threads about Stannis winning. He is an incredibly popular character facing the hugely unpopular characters, the Freys and Boltons.

That is how fandom works.

Littlefinger is going to move north and cleary going to send the vale knights to kill stannis and rickon.

Why can't he send the Knights of the Vale to kill the Boltons?

Stannis is not essential to the storyline. He has already sent Massey to hire a 20k sellsword army, they will be essential against the Others. Stannis, not so much.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

It is just wishful thinking.

Of course there is a lot of threads about Stannis winning. He is an incredibly popular character facing the hugely unpopular characters, the Freys and Boltons.

That is how fandom works.

But if Stannis loses the Battle on the Ice, how is he going to burn Shireen like D&D said he would? A defeat would mean certain death for him, even if he doesn't die in the battle itself.

[Siddard Stark]

Well i think the show has simplified the Battle of Ice, what i think will happen is stannis defeats the Frey host of 2000 men they are mostly new recruits. The manderlys will defect to stannis betraying the freys mid-battle.

I recon somehow Stannis would win against Roose Bolton's army and Roose seeing his defeat would retreat back to the Dreadfort. Now comes the interesting part, I believe there would be another Northern host which would join the battle after the defeat of the Boltons they would be bearing Stark banners lead by Robett Glover and they would engage the host commanded by stannis. The Mountain tribes would desert Stannis seeing the Northern army carrying Stark banners. The southern knights under Stannis are said to be 1000 and after the long march and battle of Ice they will be reduced in number significantly and thus they would be easily defeated by the Northern army.

Basically this is the end result of Stannis's fate depicted by the show in jst one small battle. I recon if Stannis dies it would be after 2 or 3 battles where the readers think he is safe but in the end in a twist we would see him die.

The show confirmed what i was thinking would happen to Stannis. So now House Baratheon has lost all of the legitimate heirs leaving behind only one recognized bastard Edric Storm who would continue the line of House Baratheon. I recon Gendry would serve another function in the books as no one except Varys or Brienne can tie him as Robert Baratheons Bastard son.

Well concerning Jon Snow D&D say that he is dead, i recon its their way of saying Jon Snow is dead but Kit harrington would revive his role as Jon Targaryen. They have been giving subtle hints regarding his parentage, there is no way he would be killed off.