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Ramey Bolton, Protector of the Realm.


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I maintain he's realistic in the show. I have no problem believing Ramsay and his gang could infiltrate Stannis's camp on a snowy night.

And I did find Robb's miraculous besting of a group of Wildlings......special. As was his miraculous menagerie of military victories until a most unpleasant wedding.

Ive no problem believing the character as presented but then again watching good characters lose doesn't make me want to cry unlike others (apparently).

And as for understanding the character........that's your opinion. Unless you've had a convo with GRRM I feel safe in saying D&D know the character and said characters journey better then a random message board poster.

So, you have no problem believing that Ramsey could infiltrate Stannis's camp, but don't address any of the logistical improbabilities of 20 men destroying so many supplies when said supplies are guarded. Right. 'Creatively it made sense to us because we wanted it to happen'.

Robb's besting of two desperate, untrained wildlings was entirely believable, as were his military victories. As I've said, he's the eldest son and heir of the Warden of the North. He's been trained in military tactics and armed combat since he was very young, and also had the advice of other northmen (including none other than Roose Bolton, father of the military genius Ramsey). Also, as a counter-balance to his victories he was shown to make huge, catastrophic mistakes, such as alienating the Freys and the Karstarks, expecting Edmure to know that he shouldn't engage Tywin etc. His youthfulness and lack of practical experience made his military victories surprising to some but was also his downfall in other matters.

As for me and others 'crying' when villains win... well, I suggest you look up 'straw man argument' on Google and learn to avoid using such a fallacious form of argument in the future. People with reasonable critical faculties don't generally accept such arguments or make them themselves.

If I weren't happy for villains to win I would have complained about Joffrey killing Ned, the Red Wedding, Oberyn losing to Gregor, and countless other things on GoT, but I didn't, because they were realistic and made perfect dramatic sense - unlike the ongoing adventures of Ramsey 'Terminator' Bolton.

As for D&D understanding the source material better than 'some random message board poster', is that the same D&D that claimed that Sam wasn't a POV character? The same D&D that, after having started Jamie's redemption arc brilliantly in Season 3, decided that Jaime should rape Cersei and then revert to being pretty much the same character he was in Season 1? The same D&D that were eager to adapt Dorne but somehow managed to leave out everything good about it and replaced it with sub-Xena Warrior Princess hijinks? As soon as D&D started to break away from the source material it became pretty obvious that their understanding of ASOIAF is pretty limited. As it stands the show is pretty much just a vehicle for nihilism and 'cool/dramatic moments', without much justifying nuance or set-up.

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I think the point of Ramsay is that you have never seen him fight. Rules of chivalry mean nothing to him because he has not been raised with them. He has won his victories with brains and cunning. I really hope that this is his arc. When it comes to a one on one Jon Stark/Targaryen will take his head off within two minutes

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It's not about understanding the character - he has none of the insecurities or weaknesses of his book counterpart. A brilliant swordsmen, his father's only son, loved by Myranda, and is the greatest commander in Westeros. He's a villain sue, plain and simple, who exists to prod along the plot where necessary.

Greatest Commander in Westeros? How did I miss that. Because he managed to sabotage Stannis and then worked with his father to arrange for Swords to meet him on the Battlefield. I never saw any insecurities or weaknesses in his book counterpart. Pure savagery with nothing else. On the show I feel I've seen his hunger for position and power. His disdain for his bastard origins. His insecurity where the Bolton/Frey spawn is concerned, his view of Sansa as a pretty thing only HIGH lords get to play with. I think he's much more textured in the show as opposed to the books. He just hasn't gotten his comeuppance yet.

And what he had with Myranda was love? Ok, I wouldn't have thought so but whatever makes you happy.

And we've seen Wildings give a trained Jon Snow a run for his money, so seeing Robb who had never seen combat before, flawlessly best Wildings in early S1 was quite the spectacle. But maybe he had pixie dust for breakfast that morning.

"Bad things happen in game of thrones - if you don't like it, stop watching!" This kind of argument is as asinine as it gets. This thread is about how Ramsay Snow has been given incredible abilities because the show runners wanted a comparable villain to Joffrey, who everyone loved to hate. The "If it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality.

Ya, I never said stop watching. Watch. Don't Watch. What's it to me. And there were quite a few threads on Joffrey being a caricature and a waste of time. I don't remember too much love to hate, I remember "When is he going to die". And now they have that in Ramsay. I'm so glad I enjoy the character for what he is, it sounds like it would be most unpleasant if I didn't.

Show Ramsay is an excellent, pure and creative psychopath, love the sausage joke, and brilliantly acted by Iwan who is nothing like him in real life and interesting to note that he was runner up to be Jon Snow to Kit.

I think he's awesome in the part. He's always radiating barely contained insanity. He's also so much more gritty than runner-up psycho Joffrey (Gleason was awesome too). Someone on another board said Ramsay is going to leave no stone unturned (or leave anyone alive) in his hunt to regain Sansa and it's easy to believe. A human monster that's not protected or packed in civil/sophisticated wrapping paper like Cersei, Tywin or Joffrey.

I think the point of Ramsay is that you have never seen him fight. Rules of chivalry mean nothing to him because he has not been raised with them. He has won his victories with brains and cunning. I really hope that this is his arc. When it comes to a one on one Jon Stark/Targaryen will take his head off within two minutes

I could see that happening.

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Right, because Ramsay is supposed to be intelligent. Perhaps average, just sub average intelligence, but he is certainly not a genius. Do you think Joffrey was brilliant? I don't. A monster? Yes. Sociopaths can be morons.

As for his skill in battle, both commanding and martial, he should have very little. Ramsay is portrayed as a plump psychotic product of a rape between Roose and a peasant. He lived with his mother for most of his life, and only received his "mentor" Reek when he was a teenager. Reek was essentially a castle servant who happened to smell very bad, he could teach Ramsay a few things about Castle life, but certainly not strategic matters. I'm sorry, but if you believe that anyone can just pick up a sword, with very little experience, and win with "cunning" you really need to read more about this period.

The fact is that Dabid and Daaan have a Ramsay fetish, and turning him into "terminator" Bolton (I like that :cool4:) was their own invention. Ramsay is a grunting monster in the books, and it is quite clear he will remain as such. This idea of a redemption arc Badass Azor Ahai is put forth only by the show only, and I find it hard to believe that they would be willing to make a departure of this kind from the books. Not even for Ramsay Sue.

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The fact is that Dabid and Daaan have a Ramsay fetish, and turning him into "terminator" Bolton (I like that :cool4:) was their own invention. Ramsay is a grunting monster in the books, and it is quite clear he will remain as such. This idea of a redemption arc Badass Azor Ahai is put forth only by the show only, and I find it hard to believe that they would be willing to make a departure of this kind from the books. Not even for Ramsay Sue.

What redemption? Did anyone put forth the idea of redemption? I don't see the show redeeming him at all? As for him being a Sue, whatever. I don't think he is, you do. And everything is still everything. Though he's in good company as I feel that way about Robb and Dany.

Right, because Ramsay is supposed to be intelligent. Perhaps average, just sub average intelligence, but he is certainly not a genius. Do you think Joffrey was brilliant? I don't. A monster? Yes. Sociopaths can be morons.

He's cunning. More cunning then Joffrey was, because Joffrey had House Lannister looking after him. Ramsay is able to deceive and destroy Theon because he's cunning. He was strategic in his systematic, psychological attacks on Theon and that's what led to the birth of Reek.

As for his skill in battle, both commanding and martial, he should have very little. Ramsay is portrayed as a plump psychotic product of a rape between Roose and a peasant. He lived with his mother for most of his life, and only received his "mentor" Reek when he was a teenager. Reek was essentially a castle servant who happened to smell very bad, he could teach Ramsay a few things about Castle life, but certainly not strategic matters. I'm sorry, but if you believe that anyone can just pick up a sword, with very little experience, and win with "cunning" you really need to read more about this period.

Apparently he taught Ramsay his aggressive and vicious style of fighting, at least according to wiki. And he didn't defeat Stannis directly. He came out victorious thanks to trickery. The same thing that's benefited Cersei, Tywin, Tyrion, Sansa, House Tyrell and countless others in one arena or another. The only one that continuously triumphs thanks to brute force is Dany.

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LF is no joke. He has killed Ned, killed Joffrey, set the Tyrells against the Lannisters in KL, and Stannis against the Boltons in the North. He will now strike the Boltons while they lick their wounds and kill Ramsay and then marry Sansa, becoming King of the North and then of the South. Only Varys or the WW can stop him.



His montage of "the climb" was at the very heart of the whole saga, and the counterpoint to Valar Morghulis. He is destined to go very far.


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Could the show Ramsey be the one who saves the realm from the white walkers? He isn't the prince you want so much is he is the prince you need. Most of the Starks are gone. Jon Snow is dead. Stannis gone. Who is left. Here is this extremely flawed, sadistic, insecure hero. Coming back from defeating Stannis, he finds his wife, his mistress and his servant all dead. This twists his brain even more. No longer married to a Stark with a little brother who won't be born a Snow on the way, his position is still insecure. Lonely. Angry. Unsure. He becomes even more cold and sadistic. But in the end when he and his men go over the wall and fight an extended campaign against the white walkers, he is actually cold blooded enough to kill everybody with him who is injured and too weak to swing a sword and set their corpses on fire so that the Night King can't bring them back to life and turn them against Ramsey. Jon Snow would be too soft hearted to do this, as Ser Thorne once pointed out. Stannis would have to ask Melisandre what to do and it would probably involve burning his relatives and pulling his sword out of the fire and take way to damn long with the Night King on the way. Littlefinger? He is going to be making tracks south before the walkers get anywhere near him. Warden of the North? No thanks, I'm outta here. Find another fool.



They could have shown how he aquired his ninja skill through pure will and the drive to rise above his bastard status. Not that they did, but they could have. Maybe he trained with his father's men. Learned from mysterious wildings on the other side of the wall. Studied some evil ancient martial arts from an obscure book found in the library at Dredfort. And so on.



Real life heroes can be pretty damned flawed. Of course if Ramsey the Great wins against the Night King, he gets to write his own history and leave the bad stuff about rape and torture out. Just like it happens in the real world.



But is this the prince we want, or even the Game of Thrones we want? Most viewers are gonna HATE that ending.


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Dabid and Daaan would be intensely pleased with this.

Finally someone else with an irrational Ramsay fetish.

This guy killed his own half-brother ffs. He raped Sansa. He tortured Theon. He rapes and kills women for sport.

If anyone thinks he is some kind of hero, even in the slightest sense... :bang: :crying: :bawl:

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Or if you really want another plot twist, build up Ramsey to be a dark master of evil, then let him be killed by the Night King, who really isn't as bad a guy as Ramsey. He was just screwed over by the humans long ago, and Ramsey is proof that they haven't changed much in hundreds of years. Now our real hero can lead his white walker army over the wall to take out all those wicked people in Kings Landing.


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Or if you really want another plot twist, build up Ramsey to be a dark master of evil, then let him be killed by the Night King, who really isn't as bad a guy as Ramsey. He was just screwed over by the humans long ago, and Ramsey is proof that they haven't changed much in hundreds of years. Now our real hero can lead his white walker army over the wall to take out all those wicked people in Kings Landing.

And some people, and I believe Martin as well, have suggested this. Although they don't portray them as such in the show. And I would be one of those that would hate that ending with Ramsay. He is not a nice guy in any sense of the word, certainly not one that inspires being a hero. But with this series and the show, who knows.

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What wounds? :)

Incidentally, I think Iwan is a fantastic Ramsey. . .

Yes, this was supposed to be a tougher battle so LF could just ride up and take the North but as the Boltons won so easily it is not a foregone conclusion that LF wins... but surely the Boltons cannot survive another whole season and LF's climb will continue to the very end?

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After what Ramsay did to Sansa there is no way he can be portrayed in any light as a good guy and nor will he win or save the day at the climax. And after what happened at Hardhome there is no way the same thing can happen to the NK. This season clearly set out who the bad guys are and they are irredeemable.


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