Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 3 (Book Spoilers)

[Veltigar]

On to the next one I say :)

(to quote Ran):

Quote

The topic of the thread is discussing things you disliked about the episode. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if he normal rules of the forum do not apply. Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand -- this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked.

[kissdbyfire]

We're back! Cheers, Veltigar!

So, where were we?

[A Ghost of Someone]

WHooooohoooooo

Lets start Bitching !!!

[JonCon's Red Beard]

*cartwheels like in a tampon commercial*

I'm free!!!!

[Dolorous Gabe]

YAY!

So happy!

[nyser1]

Very disappointed that the thing I will be most excited to see next season is Ramsay's face when he learns: Myranda is dead, Sansa his precious beloved wife gone, and his playtoy Reek with her.

[Cas Stark]

Right now, I'm about equally as irritated with the show as the author. I'm irritated about Jon Snow, about Stannis about Winds.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Very disappointed that the thing I will be most excited to see next season is Ramsay's face when he learns: Myranda is dead, Sansa his precious beloved wife gone, and his playtoy Reek with her.

I bet Ramsay has a full scale meltdown. Those dogs may be turned loose.

[Dolorous Gabe]

Actually, I have some musings I tried posting a while back (I saved it all in case of forum issues) only to find the thread got locked while I was typing. It's all been said before but...

There's an interesting dichotomy in the books between the Lannisters and the Starks. House Lannister appears incredibly strong and powerful, but it is built on the brittle foundations of a dysfunctional family unit, which is a major part of what makes them so interesting. House Stark, meanwhile, are presented as a strong family unit (with one major issue causing problems probably based on an honourable lie), who become significantly weakened by the events of AGOT that lead to them being separated (the 'wolf pack' being stronger together of course).

The show has chosen to portray the Lannisters, particularly since season 4 when they started taking more liberties with the story, in a way that has destroyed everything truly interesting about them. They have hinted at dysfunction but then dismissed it as if it never really happened. The ruining of Jaime's arc and character development is particularly unforgivable. The Maggy The Frog prophecy set up the reasons for Cersei losing her mind (omitting the valonqar too), which should have started as soon as Joff died and made her more aware that it might have substance.

At this point, House Stark is still in disarray but in the books we are supposed to see signs that things could brighten significantly in the near future. Book-Sansa is shown to have learned from the lessons that life has thrown at her, Stark loyalists are showing their hands and making their moves in the knowledge that Bran and Rickon are still alive, and vengeance on the Freys is being wreaked from a few different directions. The show has had very little to none of these indicators of hope for those who want the Starks to make their comeback.

[Ludo Kressh]

I bet Ramsay has a full scale meltdown. Those dogs may be turned loose.

Let the mass flayings begin.

[The Northern Scholar]

Actually, I have some musings I tried posting a while back (I saved it all in case of forum issues) only to find the thread got locked while I was typing. It's all been said before but...

There's an interesting dichotomy in the books between the Lannisters and the Starks. House Lannister appears incredibly strong and powerful, but it is built on the brittle foundations of a dysfunctional family unit, which is a major part of what makes them so interesting. House Stark, meanwhile, are presented as a strong family unit (with one major issue causing problems probably based on an honourable lie), who become significantly weakened by the events of AGOT that lead to them being separated (the 'wolf pack' being stronger together of course).

The show has chosen to portray the Lannisters, particularly since season 4 when they started taking more liberties with the story, in a way that has destroyed everything truly interesting about them. They have hinted at dysfunction but then dismissed it as if it never really happened. The ruining of Jaime's arc and character development is particularly unforgivable. The Maggy The Frog prophecy set up the reasons for Cersei losing her mind (omitting the valonqar too), which should have started as soon as Joff died and made her more aware that it might have substance.

At this point, House Stark is still in disarray but in the books we are supposed to see signs that things could brighten significantly in the near future. Book-Sansa is shown to have learned from the lessons that life has thrown at her, Stark loyalists are showing their hands and making their moves in the knowledge that Bran and Rickon are still alive, and vengeance on the Freys is being wreaked from a few different directions. The show has had very little to none of these indicators of hope for those who want the Starks to make their comeback.

This is a very good point. There are juuuuuust enough reasons at the end of DwD to not feel too depressed about the Starks' chances. The show has taken away every bit of optimism. One old lady that got flayed does not a GNC make.

[robasp2]

Actually D&D "overdid" everything..

That was their biggest mistake.

Also.

"Ooh. This Character must move from A to B because of george. Lets make a story in between."

Probably used a whiteboard

A->B

X+Y=Z

:lol:

[kissdbyfire]

Guys, let's remember to put in a request for a new thread at ~ 400 posts. This way we may get approval before this iteration gets locked.

[nyser1]

I bet Ramsay has a full scale meltdown. Those dogs may be turned loose.

If they can scare off some of the Iron Islands' best warriors in armour, that may be a scary thought.

[R4W13Y]

HOORAY!! Maybe this is why my thread in the Got General forum was (presumably) rejected :)

[Le Cygne]

I wanted to say this... Faulkner pretty much condemned Game of Thrones right here:

Our tragedy today is a general and universal physical fear so long sustained by now that we can even bear it. There are no longer problems of the spirit. There is only the question: When will I be blown up? Because of this, the young man or woman writing today has forgotten the problems of the human heart in conflict with itself which alone can make good writing because only that is worth writing about, worth the agony and the sweat.

He must learn them again. He must teach himself that the basest of all things is to be afraid; and, teaching himself that, forget it forever, leaving no room in his workshop for anything but the old verities and truths of the heart, the old universal truths lacking which any story is ephemeral and doomed - love and honor and pity and pride and compassion and sacrifice. Until he does so, he labors under a curse. He writes not of love but of lust, of defeats in which nobody loses anything of value, of victories without hope and, worst of all, without pity or compassion. His griefs grieve on no universal bones, leaving no scars. He writes not of the heart but of the glands.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1949/faulkner-speech.html

[Dolorous Gabe]

This is a very good point. There are juuuuuust enough reasons at the end of DwD to not feel too depressed about the Starks' chances. The show has taken away every bit of optimism. One old lady that got flayed does not a GNC make.

It makes you wonder just how interested D&D really are in the Starks beyond of the Red Wedding, which they absolutely love. Maybe they thought this shitting on the Starks should just keep happening.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Let the mass flayings begin.

His reaction and behavior looking for Sansa is going to be frightening to behold.

[The Northern Scholar]

I don't remember who posted it or where (maybe the HBO thread about Jon Snow), but I really liked the post about how D&D's decision to stick to important book plot points has actually been detrimental to their work. I think that's an interesting way to look at things. And it's definitely part of what angers me in these rant and rave threads. They make just enough changes that the context and background for the points they DO stick to fall completely flat.

Dany's scene in the fighting pit is a great example. By stripping away the external threats to Mereen and all her internal struggles with identity and prophecy, finding Drogon loses the moment of triumph and growth. Instead of being a step forward for character progression, she's just being saved by the dragon only to drop her ring so she can be saved again.

[A_Cornered_Wolf]

So, another huge problem I have with how they did FTW is that it negates the narrative need for the Red Wedding, at least in regards to Jon's story and pushes it back into the shock territory.

One of the reasons Jon makes the decision to take on the Boltons is because there is no one left too. He believe Stannis to be dead (and he might be) and Robb is gone. Even knowing Bran and Rickon are alive wouldn't change this, as they can't lead an army against the Boltons.

By changing the motivation for FTW, the Red Wedding is irrelevant to Jon's decision. It just happens for the shock value in terms of plot, though it obviously has some (limited in the show) impact on characters in terms of their development.

And while it does impact Sansa and Arya's lines, because of the loss of their Brother and Mother they don't seem to be put in the same situation Jon is by it where he feels he needs to do something about the Boltons because of it, for the sake of the North and his family.