Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 3 (Book Spoilers)

[R4W13Y]

Cheb and Julia, I'm finally reading through your post, and I love the Teen Girl Squad reference :lol: You guys are even cooler now, and I didn't think that was possible.

[kissdbyfire]

Yay Only Child Club :D

The Lollys scene is just the epitome of pointless filler. I also don't get why Bronn even went on the mission with Jaime to begin with? He had a really good life set up, and just because Jaime is like "oh Cersei's untrustworthy" he's like, "okay, see ya Lollys!"

Please, I love your rants, so keep 'em coming ;)

I agree. I really wonder if they sit down and watch the entire season when it comes out, and then when they shoot again they don't bring up these issues to the producers? Well I mean, of course they wouldn't because they'll get the Ian treatment, but still. It just seems weird that so many of these small, easily fixable mistakes and continuity errors keep happening.

With Mel, I genuinely thought she dyed her hair and was now just wearing black clothes, but then, as you said, next scene she's red again!

There was a lame line from Jaime saying that his betrothal to Lollys was over, she's to marry a Bracken. Ah, and when they come back Bronn will get 'a much better girl, with a much better castle'.

As inane as it sounds, I think Lollys and Stokeworth were there to convince us that Bronn would go. Like, he already has a lovely girl with a castle that's not hers, but he'll get a much better deal if he helps Larry.

[dannyk65]

There was a lame line from Jaime saying that his betrothal to Lollys was over, she's to marry a Bracken. Ah, and when they come back Bronn will get 'a much better girl, with a much better castle'.

As inane as it sounds, I think Lollys and Stokeworth were there to convince us that Bronn would go. Like, he already has a lovely girl with a castle that's not hers, but he'll get a much better deal if he helps Larry.

Well, duh! Did you see Larry's leisure suit jacket???

[Centrist Simon Steele]

I am interested how they are going to deal with this whole Dorne mismash. Tryst is on the ship to KL, but Mycella is dead. Instead of Cersei having plotted to kill Tryst, I can't even remember her deranged reason for that, she' of course totes innocent and reasonable. The bad pussy posse gotta do something but what? They already killed Myrcella. The fuck.

Yeah it doesn't make sense. I just reread Dance, and Doran blames Myrcella's maiming on Darkstar, though for a moment when Cersei hears about it she blames Tyrion...but I feel like she abandons this pretty quick. And this is even in the context that Martin created where Aerys Oakheart is dead and Myrcella has been manipulated in what she saw happening during the incident. In the show there is no context that Tyrion makes sense. Jaime and Bronn are alive and witness her death. When did Tyrion poison her? They are witnesses to the event, they would have to be dead for her ridiculous assumption to make any sense in the show. And even then, her crazier book self accepted Kevan's explanation that it wasn't Tyrion but Darkstar. I can't see any logical reason that Tyrion can be pinned for this except the writers say so and the leap in logic will be ignored.

[Drekinn]

How many men does it take to walk into Mordor?

20 good men

badumtss

[The Lord of Cinder]

Had turned off my computer and was about to sleep when my sleepy brain came up with this:

'Cause we're D&D! We write the shite

D&D! Ramsay'll win the fight

D&D! Tyrion's a power load

D&D! Watch fans explooooode!

[R4W13Y]

Yeah it doesn't make sense. I just reread Dance, and Doran blames Myrcella's maiming on Darkstar, though for a moment when Cersei hears about it she blames Tyrion...but I feel like she abandons this pretty quick. And this is even in the context that Martin created where Aerys Oakheart is dead and Myrcella has been manipulated in what she saw happening during the incident. In the show there is no context that Tyrion makes sense. Jaime and Bronn are alive and witness her death. When did Tyrion poison her? They are witnesses to the event, they would have to be dead for her ridiculous assumption to make any sense in the show. And even then, her crazier book self accepted Kevan's explanation that it wasn't Tyrion but Darkstar. I can't see any logical reason that Tyrion can be pinned for this except the writers say so and the leap in logic will be ignored.

It's because it's in the books. So, since they have to keep up the illusion that they are still following the books, that's one of their cherry-picked plot points they are going to do that no longer makes any sense in the context of the show.

Had turned off my computer and was about to sleep when my sleepy brain came up with this:

'Cause we're D&D! We write the shite

D&D! Ramsay'll win the fight

D&D! Tyrion's a power load

D&D! Watch fans explooooode!

:lol: You've been killing it tonight!

[SerMixalot]

Leisure Suit Larry! hahaha

google it if you haven't heard of him

[The Northern Scholar]

Right? And I think people said what they always say, 'oh wait, the reasons will become clear' or not. It was a lovely scene, lovely casting, everything nice. Total filler. No need for it all. Jamie could have gotten Bronn in a tavern, or, since we're so pressed for time, they could have started on the ship.

Yeah, the lighting on the show is terrible everywhere except KL and Meereen. All the other sets it's dark and murky.

But, but, but... the show trimmed all the filler! That's what I was told!

[Chebyshov]

Larry and Carol.

Cheb and Julia, I'm finally reading through your post, and I love the Teen Girl Squad reference :lol: You guys are even cooler now, and I didn't think that was possible.

Hahaha, she may have wanted me to take it out.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

That prophecy II scene was great wasn't it? When we got to see the real Cersei? When she flipped out over the prophecy and Melara told her not to worry if they never spoke of it, they wouldn't come true, and she ended up in th well. That was so effective to explain why Cersei would think of it, all those years later and worry about it.

What's even worse about that elusive Prophecy Part Duex scene is that is seems they are going to have Cersei blaming Tyrion for the Dornish death dealing done on Newcella, soooooooo..........shall we hope for that BS and the possibility of it to rear it's ugly head? While I wasn't one who ruled out their stupidity, I even thought, or hoped, for Part Duex of that prophecy. Duhhhhhhh.

This fanplanation needs a word.....like sexposition, LOL

[Balerion06]

WTF was the point of all the Sam and Gilly scenes this season? Do they just really really like the actors and want them around all the time? You could literally have them in a scene in the beginning leaving for Oldtown, throw in one scene in the middle of the season showing Aemon's death, and then end the season with them reaching their destination.

For all D&D moan about not having enough time for plotlines, they really waste a lot of fucking time. And I'm not talking about their own invented filler like Myranada and the loony Northern candle lady. Even the canon characters they choose to give screentime to is completely mishandled.

80% of Arya's limited screentime went to washing bodies. WHY?

Why waste so much time with the Queen of Thorns when she contributes absolutely nothing to anything?

And the less said about Sand Titties and Sand Slappsies, the better.

[LadySoftheart]

I've never felt like this. Even in Dance, in Winterfell with the Bolton's, things never felt hopeless to me. The North Remembers, and not just some random old commoners. I think Martin just doesn't ascribe to some cosmic karma system which rewards good deeds and punishes the bad. But in the end the human spirit can and does do the job instead.

Besides, Martin has outright said the ending will be bittersweet. Not just bitter.

Yes, I completely agree with you.

"Is there anything in this life but grief?"

"There's love. There's hope... for some. There's hope that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some joy... that after everything... you can still be surprised."

This is a quote from a very different show (Joss Whedon's "Angel") but ... I think for me it really represents what the spirit of the books is. I know a lot of people think they are incredibly dark and depressing, but I don't see them that way, because I think we are always getting some glimpse of what matters: there is always love in all its myriad forms (e.g. Arya's love for Jon and his for her); there is loyalty (Brienne's, Barristan's; the Manderleys); there is honor and courage in many different forms (Sam and Bran); there is kindness and empathy despite every effort to drive it out (Sansa); there is wisdom (Davos). Theon's and Jaime's storylines, though they may seem to plumb the depths of cruelty, and they do, are also things that make me hopeful: a person isn't defined by his or her worst act, or nullified by suffering, but can regain him/herself. All of these things are in the books, and all of these qualities are what make the realms of men worth saving, and make the story a hopeful one (to me, anyway.)

I think the show is far more nihilistic than the books simply because the showrunners don't seem to think about that vein of hopefulness that runs through the books and they think the story is about how "anyone can die" or "honor gets you killed." There is no sense that love is important (sex is important on the show, and often showcased, but love ... not so much.) And consequently, I think Show!Westeros is a terrible, hopeless, depressing place in a way that Book!Westeros isn't.

[Drekinn]

80% of Arya's limited screentime went to washing bodies. WHY?

A man thinks the girl should watch Karate Kid to get the idea.

[dannyk65]

How many men does it take to walk into Mordor?

20 good men

badumtss

definitely bonus points for 'badumtss'

[dannyk65]

What's even worse about that elusive Prophecy Part Duex scene is that is seems they are going to have Cersei blaming Tyrion for the Dornish death dealing done on Newcella, soooooooo..........shall we hope for that BS and the possibility of it to rear it's ugly head? While I wasn't one who ruled out their stupidity, I even thought, or hoped, for Part Duex of that prophecy. Duhhhhhhh.

This fanplanation needs a word.....like sexposition, LOL

Strawgrasplanation

[LadySoftheart]

Yay Only Child Club :D

Me too!!!

[kissdbyfire]

Yes, I completely agree with you.

<snip>

Great post! I completely agree with you both. :)

[dannyk65]

Yes, I completely agree with you.

"Is there anything in this life but grief?"

"There's love. There's hope... for some. There's hope that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some joy... that after everything... you can still be surprised."

This is a quote from a very different show (Joss Whedon's "Angel") but ... I think for me it really represents what the spirit of the books is. I know a lot of people think they are incredibly dark and depressing, but I don't see them that way, because I think we are always getting some glimpse of what matters: there is always love in all its myriad forms (e.g. Arya's love for Jon and his for her); there is loyalty (Brienne's, Barristan's; the Manderleys); there is honor and courage in many different forms (Sam and Bran); there is kindness and empathy despite every effort to drive it out (Sansa); there is wisdom (Davos). Theon's and Jaime's storylines, though they may seem to plumb the depths of cruelty, and they do, are also things that make me hopeful: a person isn't defined by his or her worst act, or nullified by suffering, but can regain him/herself. All of these things are in the books, and all of these qualities are what make the realms of men worth saving, and make the story a hopeful one (to me, anyway.)

I think the show is far more nihilistic than the books simply because the showrunners don't seem to think about that vein of hopefulness that runs through the books and they think the story is about how "anyone can die" or "honor gets you killed." There is no sense that love is important (sex is important on the show, and often showcased, but love ... not so much.) And consequently, I think Show!Westeros is a terrible, hopeless, depressing place in a way that Book!Westeros isn't.

Only thing I can think of is that they may be intending to finish strong, with themes of hope and the likes saved for the last two seasons. Next year, they may try and ramp up a more positive vibe....and they should, to attempt to save any kind of plot continuity

[R4W13Y]

Larry and Carol.

Hahaha, she may have wanted me to take it out.

Larry looks terrifying with a perm :bawl:

I love Carol's hair though. Think that should have been the WoS do?

I'm glad you won that argument ;)

WTF was the point of all the Sam and Gilly scenes this season? Do they just really really like the actors and want them around all the time? You could literally have them in a scene in the beginning leaving for Oldtown, throw in one scene in the middle of the season showing Aemon's death, and then end the season with them reaching their destination.

For all D&D moan about not having enough time for plotlines, they really waste a lot of fucking time. And I'm not talking about their own invented filler like Myranada and the loony Northern candle lady. Even the canon characters they choose to give screentime to is completely mishandled.

80% of Arya's limited screentime went to washing bodies. WHY?

Why waste so much time with the Queen of Thorns when she contributes absolutely nothing to anything?

And the less said about Sand Titties and Sand Slappsies, the better.

Ugh, this will always be my main issue - wasted time on pointless filler. Without this, then most of my other complaints might actually be alleviated because then there would be more time and money available to focus on what truly matters, making the story more complex, faithful, and with less continuity errors, less rushing, less logical inconsistencies.

Jon and Sam's last scene? Most of it taken up with talk about Gilly and fucking and breaking vows. There are literally dozens of other things they could have talked about that would have been more important.

Yes, I completely agree with you.

"Is there anything in this life but grief?"

"There's love. There's hope... for some. There's hope that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some joy... that after everything... you can still be surprised."

This is a quote from a very different show (Joss Whedon's "Angel") but ... I think for me it really represents what the spirit of the books is. I know a lot of people think they are incredibly dark and depressing, but I don't see them that way, because I think we are always getting some glimpse of what matters: there is always love in all its myriad forms (e.g. Arya's love for Jon and his for her); there is loyalty (Brienne's, Barristan's; the Manderleys); there is honor and courage in many different forms (Sam and Bran); there is kindness and empathy despite every effort to drive it out (Sansa); there is wisdom (Davos). Theon's and Jaime's storylines, though they may seem to plumb the depths of cruelty, and they do, are also things that make me hopeful: a person isn't defined by his or her worst act, or nullified by suffering, but can regain him/herself. All of these things are in the books, and all of these qualities are what make the realms of men worth saving, and make the story a hopeful one (to me, anyway.)

I think the show is far more nihilistic than the books simply because the showrunners don't seem to think about that vein of hopefulness that runs through the books and they think the story is about how "anyone can die" or "honor gets you killed." There is no sense that love is important (sex is important on the show, and often showcased, but love ... not so much.) And consequently, I think Show!Westeros is a terrible, hopeless, depressing place in a way that Book!Westeros isn't.

Perfectly, beautifully written. I completely agree.