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TheReal_Rebel

Quentyn: What was the point

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What was the point of Quentyn's arc?

I never felt anything but sorry for the character until he gained access to the Dragons and knew he was doomed.

He was where he didn't want to be, doing what he was told he must do for his family and country. Sounds like a doomed soldier.

It is Doran's biggest blunder.

What was he thinking?

I don't understand the purpose of Quentyn and why so many unnecessary pages were wasted on him?

Just so there was away for the Dragons escape?

What was the point?

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i can only bet the point is for:


1) the dragon cannot be easily tamable just because you have some dragon blood


2) someone important has to die


3) it needed some well excused action in order to free them to justify the word ''dance'' in the title


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Some will argue that you get information about sellswords and some of the free cities... I am not one of these people those chapters were like pulling teeth to me, to introduce a new POV character in the 5th book just to have a reason to have the dragons escape is dumb in my opinion. Could of had him do all the same things but through other POV chapters


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Some will argue that you get information about sellswords and some of the free cities... I am not one of these people those chapters were like pulling teeth to me, to introduce a new POV character in the 5th book just to have a reason to have the dragons escape is dumb in my opinion. Could of had him do all the same things but through other POV chapters

Sadly this is true, the only thing Quentyn brings to the table is info on the sell sword companies and to get himself killed freeing dragons. I mean we get a little big more info on Dorne as well, but that's more or less it. This guy really should not have been a POV.

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Sadly this is true, the only thing Quentyn brings to the table is info on the sell sword companies and to get himself killed freeing dragons. I mean we get a little big more info on Dorne as well, but that's more or less it. This guy really should not have been a POV.

I agree. It was a waste.

How someone as intelligent as Doran with a sexually active daughter, surrounded by strong women, could be so blind. Thinking Dany, a teen Queen, preoccupied with Slaver's Baybabd Mereen, would consider Dorne so strategically important she would consider marrying some flat footed plain faced dullard never made sense.

Doran's and the Viper's desire for revenge and advancement of Dorne made no strategic sense either in regards to Dany. They simply knew nothing about her or her dragons. A they assumed she would recognize Fornish importance in Westeros.

A country who's political landscape Dany barely knows.

If Doran had sent Quentyn merely on a fact finding mission --or someone more charming--he would have had information to make plans for Dorne, Arriane and his family. I suppose it's the blindness of pride in the importance of one's country.

All I can think, is there will be some political pay off in Dorne fighting against another Dragon.

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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I actually enjoyed Quentyn's story.



It was sad. He was dreaming unattainable dreams. He was a shy and hesitant boy, lacking confidence. Yet he was impulsive and wanted to stand on his own.



The story showed that even arranged marriages with the best intentions can end up being very ill suited. You have to have more than just your family name to thrive in Westeros. Quentyn believed he was Dany's most suitable match, based on family and history, and he was dumbfounded when she was not interested in him.



Quentyn is very similar to Sansa. He was a dreamer. He believed in great heroes doing noble deeds, winning the hand of the fairest lady, and conquering the kingdoms. Quentyn's tragic flaw was not seeing reality all around him.



In fact, Quentyn's story is exactly what most fans love about ASOIAF. The great heroes are not necessarily the best at playing the game.


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What was the point of Quentyn's arc?

I never felt anything but sorry for the character until he gained access to the Dragons and knew he was doomed.

He was where he didn't want to be, doing what he was told he must do for his family and country. Sounds like a doomed soldier.

It is Doran's biggest blunder.

What was he thinking?

I don't understand the purpose of Quentyn and why so many unnecessary pages were wasted on him?

Just so there was away for the Dragons escape?

What was the point?

If you look at it like that introducing him sounds pretty unnecessary, thats true.

I enjoyed his chapters though. I think it was really interesting to learn more about Dorne and how they are involved / trying to get involved. Doran was part of the plot of saving Daenerys and Viserys and marrying her off to Khal Drogo (Arianne was promised to marry Viserys later on) and now they're sending Quentin.

So I think apart from freeing the dragons and giving us information about Dorne and the free companies it was also done to make us more aware of Dorne as they seem to be scheming plans in the background all the time and are definitely gonna play a bigger role in the future.

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So I think apart from freeing the dragons and giving us information about Dorne and the free companies it was also done to make us more aware of Dorne as they seem to be scheming plans in the background all the time and are definitely gonna play a bigger role in the future.

That's a good way of looking at it. And I think that's what makes them the most interesting family to me along with the Greyjoys.

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Quentyn's primary purpose is fulfilled before we even meet him on page. He's central to Arianne's development. Her whole character arc, motivations, even personality to an extent, is informed by Quentyn. Or more specifically the letter from Doran to Quentyn which lead Arianne to believe (with fair justification) that Quentyn would steal her birthright from her. You can't have Arianne without Quentyn.



Once that purpose was fulfilled Quentyn's existence was really just a loose end. One which Martin decided to wrap up while doing a few odd jobs along the way. He shows us more about Volantis and the sellswords, he frees the dragons, his death will probably have some influence on who Dorne allies with and as the fake deaths and resurrections pile up, Quentyn allows GRRM to reaffirm to us that "anyone can die." He's a mini-Ned. The sympathetic, kind of plain protagonist who you would think would end up with a grand hero's journey but...doesn't. But first and foremost he is a catalyst for Arianne. I'm pretty convinced he would not exist if not for that purpose, Martin just needed to do something actually with him, once he had invented Quentyn. It would not surprise me if Martin did not think up Quentyn's fate until writing ADWD.



Now given that, it is arguable whether Quentyn should have been a POV. But I think so. The Spurned Suitor and The Dragontamer were very plot relevant chapters. And I can't really fault Martin for giving us an introductory POV as well. So the only thing that sticks out is the Windblown Chapter. I think it could have been cut, but giving Quentyn 4 chapters instead of my preferred 3 is hardly a heinous crime. As usual people exaggerate the degree of bloat in the latter two books.


Edited by protar

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I'm coming out of the closet now! I actually liked Quentyn, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Apart from his bigger role in Arianne's story as Protar mentions above, I loved his tragic quest with the dragons. Yes, he was stupid to try, but he was also brave, and that was one of my favourite chapters in Dance. It was well-written and had the perfect amount of tension.

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I re-read the chapters quentyn appeared in and I found him to be likable. he was sent on a doomed mission by his father who is an incapable ruler.

I hope to see dorne smashed. IMO they are the least powerful of the seven kingdoms.

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From Doran's point of view: Hoping to catch a dragon with a minor piece (in Chess / Cyvasse terms). Quentyn, although the elder son, was perhaps somewhat disappointing, and had little enough to offer to any of Doran's plans within Dorne (since "reconciliation with the Yronwoods" has already been achieved.): Trystane, in terms of importance, had already leapfrogged his elder brother, with his Myrcella Baratheon match. If Quentyn succeeds, then Doran gets an alliance with the dragon queen, his son becomes Prince Consort of Westeros: if he fails... well, he was the nearest to expendable among Doran's children.

From the reader's point of view: Quentyn is one of those people who is more interesting alive than dead. The fact that he was killed *by dragons* may well serve to turn a lot of public opinion in Dorne against Dany - to the point at which they, especially Arianne's own supporters, may jump at Aegon: in other words, turning part of Dorne away from the true dragon to the false one. While Doran lives he may keep peace between the factions, but after he dies, it will be open war between the pro-dragon factions that back Aegon, and the anti-dragon factions who may determine to stick with Trystane / Myrcella (and possibly be led by Trystane himself, young though he is.)

(An alliance with Daenerys - proven beyond doubt to be the real thing, and with actual dragons under her command - might have been sufficient to unite all of Dorne behind that prospect: an alliance with Aegon won't be.)

So, Doran's peace in Dorne is about to unravel, violently so. One only has to wonder whether Doran will die of natural causes, or which faction will do away with him.

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What do people think about the Quentyn is a fake theory?


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I re-read the chapters quentyn appeared in and I found him to be likable. he was sent on a doomed mission by his father who is an incapable ruler.
I hope to see dorne smashed. IMO they are the least powerful of the seven kingdoms.

The only one of the seven kingdoms whose lord is actually styled a prince. Clearly not the least powerful. 

 

What do people think about the Quentyn is a fake theory?

 

It's silly.

 

To the OP: Quentyn sucks, and I hate him. But a guy on the Internet did a great job of making his arc seem relevant.

 

https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/water-gardens-and-blood-oranges-part-i-the-viper-and-the-grass/

 

It's a 6 part series, and worth reading, if you're so inclined. 

 

Now, did we need the person of Quentyn, and the hundreds of pages he took up in order to advance this plot? I say, Hell no. But there it is.

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The only one of the seven kingdoms whose lord is actually styled a prince. Clearly not the least powerful. 
 

It's silly.
 
To the OP: Quentyn sucks, and I hate him. But a guy on the Internet did a great job of making his arc seem relevant.
 
https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/water-gardens-and-blood-oranges-part-i-the-viper-and-the-grass/
 
It's a 6 part series, and worth reading, if you're so inclined. 
 
Now, did we need the person of Quentyn, and the hundreds of pages he took up in order to advance this plot? I say, Hell no. But there it is.

Doran could have done the simple thing and ask his own daughter & the Sand Snakes honestly what they thought of Quentyn from their POV. Would a Dragon Queen want him?

The problem was Doran's ego about his son, the importance of his country and seeing everything from his own strategic POV & not considering what a teen-age Queen of Dragons might want.

I'm sorry but the chapters were dull and did not advance the central plot. Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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I too liked Quentyn's POV. The purpose it served to me was attaching the reader to a character then having that character due to give an insight into how Doran must feel, and how would we react if we were him. I read the book a while back but if my memory is correct, Quentyn was the eldest son, and heir to Dorne. Marrying Elia to Rhaegar raised Dorne's status. Unfortunately both died and Dorne was again out of the mix. Kings Landing broke their truce with Dorne by trying to kidnap Myrcella. Doran doesn't have anyone to trust. His only play is to unite with Dany. The Quentyn POV represent how Dany rejected him and the gruesome death of Quentyn.

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IMO his story had some purposes (even though it was not the best written POV or the most necessary):

  1. It shows us the results of Dany's wrong policy towards Yunkai.
  2. It reminds us that Targaryen blood is not enough to be a dragonrider.
  3. It justifies the future Dorne-Aegon alliance (there is blood now between Dany and Dorne).
  4. It proves that Doran was saying the truth to Arianne about her rights to Dorne.

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Aegon! He was just  as naive as quentyn and would have gotten himself killed, if it wasn't for tyrion's intervention

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Personally, I think Quentyn's purpose is twofold. Firstly, he was there - as has been pointed out above - for Arianne's development.  Her paranoia that Doran is going to pass her over for Quentyn is a key element of her story and a primary motivating factor in many of the actions she takes.  It also colors the relationship between her and Doran.  Secondly, I believe that Quentyn is the sun that rose in the west and set in the east from Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy in Thrones

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Quentyn's chapters are actually among my favorites in the book, as they tell a complete character journey and do so economically and efficiently, which the rest of the book is sorely lacking.  Quentyn's plot significance is tangential and what little lasting impact he has could easily have been written in other ways, of course, but the character arc more than makes up for it for me.  It has a beginning, middle, and end, his death by dragon is one of the most memorable passages in the book, and I like a lot of the themes interwoven in his chapters.  He's a character that believes in destiny and is determined to do his duty to his country even though it holds no personal interest to him and he has a ton of doubts that he can even realistically achieve any of it.  It speaks to one of the largest themes of the series, I think, which is that unwavering loyalty, to anyone or anything, is foolish, and that allowing others to make decisions for you and determine your fate will only lead to unhappiness.  Quentyn is loyal to his father and Dorne to a fault, and he follows the instructions of his father to the bitter end, even when he doubts anything good will come of it.  He relies on myths of heroes overcoming all odds to strengthen his resolve, and it fails him in the end.  It's a really tragic tale, and it's one of the highlights of the book for me.

Had it been inserted into ASOS, I probably would have felt differently, and agreed that it was pointless and dragged down the rest of the book. But that's because ASOS is a better book, with properly paced plotlines, several different compelling character arcs that have satisfying resolutions, and a sense of purpose.  ADWD just wanders and sniffs the flowers, most of the plotlines go nowhere and take far too long to tell not-very-compelling stories.  Tyrion's chapters are among my least favorite in the series, there's WAY too much of Jon that tells us the exact same goddamn thing every single time, the Meereen stuff is mostly a mess, and of course all of these plots end in the middle, with no compelling resolution and no reason for us to care about them.  So in the context of this largely aimless book, Quentyn's material stands out as a beacon of properly paced, well-executed storytelling, with a compelling arc that actually concludes in a satisfying fashion and makes a coherent point.  I'd take that over the umpteenth grumpy Bowen Marsh scene any day.

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