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Evidence that the Lemon Tree Was Not Originally in Braavos


Lost Melnibonean

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ALso I wanted to say that while a lemon is literally bitter and sour. Often in literature and art it is used a sign of wealth and power. I think its symbolism can go both ways. off the top of my head, take Louisa May Alcott's Little Women. The lemons were a sign of wealth, something to be desired or wanted.



Historically lemons have always been sought after, they were not always available everywhere, so if you lived in a place where they were not grown naturally you would have to be wealthy to obtain them. Lemons were often used in opulent or elaborate paintings, especially when painting portraits for the wealthy, often they would have them somewhere in the painting off to the side to show exactly how rich they were. The bright yellow color is also something to be desired as it occurs naturally almost no where else in everyday items.



So while I agree with you completely about putting to ground the stupid lemongate BS, I am not certain that the lemons foreshadow Dany's death.


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ALso I wanted to say that while a lemon is literally bitter and sour. Often in literature and art it is used a sign of wealth and power. I think its symbolism can go both ways. off the top of my head, take Louisa May Alcott's Little Women. The lemons were a sign of wealth, something to be desired or wanted.

Historically lemons have always been sought after, they were not always available everywhere, so if you lived in a place where they were not grown naturally you would have to be wealthy to obtain them. Lemons were often used in opulent or elaborate paintings, especially when painting portraits for the wealthy, often they would have them somewhere in the painting off to the side to show exactly how rich they were. The bright yellow color is also something to be desired as it occurs naturally almost no where else in everyday items.

So while I agree with you completely about putting to ground the stupid lemongate BS, I am not certain that the lemons foreshadow Dany's death.

I discussed that in the OP. I think that's what Petyr was showing off in the recent Alayne spoiler chapter.
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I think a lot of people are missing the point of the OP. He's claiming where the lemon tree was is not important. The important thing to note is that between drafts he kept the lemon tree when other details were being changed. Thus, the lemon tree itself has symbolism that matters, not the city where the lemon tree was located.

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In Sansa I, Game 15, she was looking forward to lemon cakes in the queen's wheelhouse, but her day ended with her prince's loathing and contempt. Samwell's early childhood went from snitching lemon cakes to contempt, abuse, and banishment by his father. In Sansa II, Game 29, Sansa went from enjoying lemon cakes with Joffrey at the feast following the first day of jousting to being escorted back to her cell by the Hound. In Sansa III, Game 44, Sansa and Jeyne (poor Jeyne) looked for lemon cakes in the kitchen, but at the end of the chapter learned her father was sending back to Winterfell. In Arya V, Game 65, Arya offered to trade a fat pigeon for a lemon, but ened up at her father's execution. Jeor Mormont drank lemon in his beer every day. He still had his own teeth but his men mutinied and murdered him. At Bitterbridge, Renly's bannermen feasted on lemon cakes. Of course, Renly's campaign ened shortly thereafter. As Davos sailed with Stannis's fleet into Blackwater Bay, he observed Aegon's High Hill, dark against a lemon sky. That's an odd description for a sky, no? As Davos turned downstream, the mouth of the Blackwater Rush had turned into the mouth of hell. You referred to Sansa sharing lemon cakes with the Tyrells before being forced to wed the imp. And Lem Lemoncloak just reeks of bitterness and disappointment.I am glad iI'm not associated with House Dalt of Lemonwood. At Edmure's wedding feast Catelyn noted that Ryman Frey had bathed in lemon water but failed to mask his sour sweat, and that Roose smelled sweeter but no more pleasant. The Feast did not end on a happy note. At Joffrey's wedding feast Tyrion had a slice of pigeon pie covered with a spoon of lemon cream. A few paragraphs later he stood accused of regicide. Doran's Water Gardens smell of lemons and blood oranges. Anybody think Dorne is going end up happy with their blood and fire? Cersei drank lemon water so tart she had to spit it out the morning she learned that Tyrion had murdered their father. In The Queenmaker, Arianne noticed that Darkstar preferred lemon water to summer wine, and she served lemonsweet to Myrcella before Darkstar cut off Myrcella's ear amidst lemon orchards watered by a spider's web of old canals. Stannis enjoys boiled eggs and lemon water for breakfast, and, well, I think we all know his end will be bitter and disappointing. I only got a few chapters into Dance...

I personally will never eat lemons again. The next person I see drinking lemonade, I will make the sign of the cross at them and flee in terror.

Great work!

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Doesn't Mormont refer to putting lemons in wine as the "queerest sort of southron heresy?" He takes them in his beer, obviously, but I think Jon makes a point of saying its a big no no for spiced wine.

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Doesn't Mormont refer to putting lemons in wine as the "queerest sort of southron heresy?" He takes them in his beer, obviously, but I think Jon makes a point of saying its a big no no for spiced wine.

Proof Dany has no Northern blood! RIP R+L=D. Oh wait, she doesn't drink lemoned wine.

Never trust an author. They'll lemon you when you least expect it. :P

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Doesn't Mormont refer to putting lemons in wine as the "queerest sort of southron heresy?" He takes them in his beer, obviously, but I think Jon makes a point of saying its a big no no for spiced wine.

Yes, I see it now as a reminder of the daily lemon-flavored beer right before Jon bids farewell ro the Old Bear.
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I figured maybe he was playing on both sides of the fence. He did live to be 70-something and was overall pretty damn cool.



Now if he had been lemoning his wine too... in the North... he would have been doomed long ago.


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In my backyard, if you don't pick the low hanging apples, the woodchucks get 'em.

Ohhhhhhhh, you need to keep the apple trees pruned coz ya got sum mighty big groundhogs wandering round or sum heavy laden branches.

Actually, I like your OP because it shows that the man writes a story that is difficult to follow and that he makes mistakes.

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Ohhhhhhhh, you need to keep the apple trees pruned coz ya got sum mighty big groundhogs wandering round or sum heavy laden branches.

Actually, I like your OP because it shows that the man writes a story that is difficult to follow and that he makes mistakes.

Woodchucks climb. And two of my trees went down in a storm but only partly. They still bear a lttle fruit, and the woodchucks have a happy home. The fox keeps 'em on their toes, though.
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Proof Dany has no Northern blood! RIP R+L=D. Oh wait, she doesn't drink lemoned wine.

Never trust an author. They'll lemon you when you least expect it. :P

... because they might change their mind about details from old SSMs, old family trees, old versions of the story like the 1993 outline, and, thanks to the OP, Dany's childhood home in Tyr ;)

I admire your detective work Ser! :cheers:

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