The Blood of Starks: More magical than Targaryens

[Mithras]

By all accounts, Brandon the Builder looks like a hybrid born from human-CotF coupling. This explains his long life, small stature, innate magic, ability to learn the True Tongue and so on. I think the skinchanger gene in all humans result from CotF ancestry.

[Mithras]

Thats the great twist. The honourable and good Stark's actually has the blood of the worst creatures that exist.

Valyrians were the worst creatures that existed.

But i could be that the Stark's got the Others the same way Targs get dragonblood. The Targs didnt mate with dragons , but used some blood magic and the Stark's did the same just with other blood. Thats what i belive.

With so many interbreeding and bestiality "experiments" Valyrians practiced on slaves, there is substantial reason to suspect that the Valyrians became the reptilians of Planetos.

[LordImp]

Valyrians were the worst creatures that existed.

With so many interbreeding and bestiality "experiments" Valyrians practiced on slaves, there is substantial reason to suspect that the Valyrians became the reptilians of Planetos.

But did they fuck dragons ? Doubt it.

[Mithras]

But did they fuck dragons ? Doubt it.

Maybe the dragons they fucked were different than the known dragons. Whatever the case, they occasionally give birth to half human half dragon monstrosities. The actual process of how this mating took place does not matter much (whether by traditional humping or bio-engineering). Dragonlords literally have reptile blood in their veins.

[LordImp]

Maybe the dragons they fucked were different than the known dragons. Whatever the case, they occasionally give birth to half human half dragon monstrosities. The actual process of how this mating took place does not matter much (whether by traditional humping or bio-engineering). Dragonlords literally have reptile blood in their veins.

Yes i agree that Valyrians has reptilian blood and i belive they got that from engineering . And i belive that the Stark's have other blood the same way Valyrians have dragonblood.

[Mithras]

Yes i agree that Valyrians has reptilian blood and i belive they got that from engineering . And i belive that the Stark's have other blood the same way Valyrians have dragonblood.

But Starks do not produce occasional monstrosities. Except Brandon Ice-Eyes, we cannot talk about an Othery Stark. Boltons OTOH look like descendants of the Night's King with their creepy eyes. And it is revealed in the World Book that Bolton-Stark feud dates back to the Long Night.

[LordImp]

The Others are very manish tho , the dragons are monsters. The Others are most likely former humans , and that can be a reason that the Stark's just inheritate things as eyes.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Given how GRRM works, I think hereditary genes are going to come into play even more. I mean we already have the whole Baratheon/Lannister genetic thing, now Bran with the whole Greenseer thing.

I'm just saying that by your reckoning....being a greenseer isn't about genetics, it's about being taught....but how would you explain Jojen and Bran then? No one "taught" them, it was just there in their genes. SO even if the First Men were "taught", the fact that they can STILL become greenseers proves it's at least a LITTLE genetics, am i right?

Jojen has green dreams. That isn't the same as being a green seer. Jojen says the 3 eyed crow came to him after he almost drowned. The 3 eyed crow came to Bran after his fall. Clearly, BR orchestrated this. I believe this because it happened twice in the text. Once to Jojen and once to Bran.

The Targaryens also have their own line of seers and dreamers. Are we to think that the Targs also have CoTF in their blood lines? The Valyrians believed that they came from the dragons. A race of humans born from dragons? That is truly magical.

The Starks say the blood of the First Men runs through their veins. The First Men warred with the CoTF. Eventually, they made a pact that allowed the FM to have all of the land except for the deep forests and they were to leave the Weirwood trees alone. So, the First Men populated Westeros from the broken arm or elbow all the way to The Land of Always Winter. Supposedly, this is where the Others came from. So, are all Others Starks? Or, is there another connection between the Others and the Starks? Nan says the Night's King was a Stark of Winterfell.

Clearly, the Wildings have the blood of the First Men as well. Who else but them were caught on the wrong side of the Wall after it was built? So, if blood tells, perhaps that's why Jon Snow had sympathy for the Wildings. They share the same blood, which means all Starks are descended from the First Men or the Wildings. If you're mixing different bloodlines, lets not forget the tale of Bael the Bard. He stole a daughter of Winterfell and left a blue rose on her pillow. When she was found again, she was with child and bore Bael's son. Mance liked to play his little jokes and called himself "Abel (Bael) when he went to Winterfell to steal a daughter of Winterfell).

So, where does the magic of Stark blood come from? Is it magic of their own or magic bestowed upon them by the Children, or worse, (presumably), by the Others? Did the magic come from breeding with these magical races, or families? Why did the Last King of Winter kneel to Aegon? An unlikely scenario for so powerful a king. Was he only protecting his people or were their bigger things at stake? No one knows truly why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. By no one, I mean none of us. Did Ned know? Cat? It seems all of the Starks had common knowledge of this fact, but, they never say out loud why that is.

Dany's power came to her through her blood, but, it was not until the death of her brother, her husband and her son that she became the mother of three dragons. In my estimation, those were 3 lives given for 3 dragons. (Only death can pay for life).

[Pain killer Jane]

***As a disclaimer, I just want to let people know that while I am talking about "magical powers" and "magical properties" of bloodlines and such, I do not mean to say that because a certain family or character comes from a certain bloodline or has certain blood, they do not have any uber super powers or special immune systems (fully) or anything like that. Yes it gives them certain "perks" if you will, but they are still very mortal......for what we know.

Stock Stark Blood:

-Ok, from what we know, House Stark was created during The Long Night and the events either leading up to it, or what caused it's end. Many think they were the family that contained the Last Hero, or Azor Ahai, etc. However that is also at odds with the fact that House Dayne also seemingly came from The Long Night, has Dawn, and fits the proto-valyrian bill that someone wielding fire magic would seemingly have.

That being said, it is reasonable to think that even during their inception, the resulting House Stark had "magical properties" about themselves. We do not know whether or not they had warging abilities during this time, but we do know that Brandon the Builder either had some sort of special magic or knowledge that helped him build The Wall, Winterfell, and Storms End. We also know that Starks have always had a "sprinkle" of wolf's blood, that we ASSUME comes from when they were made during the Long Night.

-So it's reasonable to say that the original Stark blood contained: wolfs blood, (possible) warg elements, and (possible) Ice magic elements. The process in which their blood became imbued with these magics is still unknown, but it's reasonable to think that "warging" is hereditary through First Men, and Wolf's Blood could be a similar "shared" blood like the Valyrians/Dragons....though it could also just be that the Starks (as wargs) symbolically always used wolves as their vessels. Thus giving the family actual characteristics of the animals since they had shared their "soul" with them for so long. The ice magic properties is anyone's guess, but I think it's somewhat apparent that one existed certainly more than the other properties, because that could really be the only explanation for Brandon the Builder and how the Starks became "Kings of Winter", rulers of Winterfell (winter-fell)

The additions:

Warg Blood: So thankfully from the timeline and information of TWoIaF, we can now see the broad strokes of the struggle that House Stark went through to win, and keep, the North. One of the struggles was of the Warg King, who made common cause with some Children of the Forest, greenseers, animals, and a few other men I believe. After House Stark overthrew and slayed him, the Lord took the daughter to wife, an occurrence that would become the standard for House Stark. This proves that we have an actual occurrence of when we know warg genetics became part of the ruling line of House Stark. (There was also "The War of Wolves" in which House Stark fought a warg controlling an army of wolves, however it only says that he was defeated, no mention of any family)

Cursed/Barrow/Other/Giant? Blood: After the Warg King was dealt with, the account goes on to talk about the next big struggle The Kings of Winter faced....and that was the Barrow Kings. They considered themselves the TRUE kings of the First Men, laying a curse on any of those who would try to usurp that title. A curse that would feed on the life essence of the person, making them "corpse like". Now there is just enough mystery of the Barrows to illicit the Citadel to give some creedence to what The Barrow Kings had claimed. Now whether they were affiliated with the Others, or it was something from the Giants or Children of the Forest, it was clear that there was something unusual about the kingdom. So therefore like the Warg King, when the last Barrow King met his demise at the hand of one of the Kings of Winterfell, the King also took to wife the daughter of the slain King......which is why they possibly "evaded" the curse, since they absorbed the bloodline. The properties from the bloodline is still shrouded in obscurity.

Greenseer/Children of the Forest Blood: The last of the independent kingdoms of the North aside from the Starks, was that of the Marsh Kings. They were the ones who ruled the area now called The Neck, the swamps where Moat Cailin now stands sentinel. Now I don't believe the Marsh Kings put up much of a fight after the Barrow Kings fell, so the last Marsh King gave up his daughter willingly to the Starks. Thus completing what the Starks had always seemingly done, marrying the fallen foes bloodline into their own. Now it is widely known (and somewhat obviously proven) that the crannogmen had the blood of The Children of the Forest. Not only do they live closest to the nature, they also fit the stature, so it is completely reasonable to state that the Starks absorbed some blood of the Children through their marriage to the Marsh Kings through his daughter.

What this means: Now before anyone starts thinking that the Starks are going to start cursing people or start using that army of wolves to kill all the Freys (not saying it WON'T happen, but we just don't know), I just want to say that like all of GRRM's magic in the series, the magical blood they carry is super subtle. I think from this we just get more of an explanation as to how all 6 of the Stark children could have their warg powers awakened. Given all the blood lines they absorbed, I don't think it would be hard for Bloodraven to set up their powers. He could send the direwolf down by Winterfell, make sure that all of them get their pups, and since they have an affinity for wolves, it wouldn't be that hard at all (using Children of the Forest connections) to wake their inner wargs, since we know all of them carry at leas the potential to become a warg.

I also want to point out that I think it may also give them a certain tolerance to the cold. I say this because I can honestly not remember a time in which any of the Stark kids complained of being cold. Not saying that they CAN'T be cold, but just that their tolerance might be a little higher. I think Bran's journey to BR is what kind of won me over on that theory, as he is the one who seems to have made the journey with minimal damage from the cold.

However I think this is why their family is treated as being SO IMPORTANT to the North. They have literally taken all the powers and fury of the North and put it into one bloodline. This could be why THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A STARK IN WINTERFELL. For someone with their bloodline could warg to always know whats going on, they could treat with the Children of the Forest as they are technically "kin" and, the most important of them all.....

THEY HAVE DEFEATED THE CURSE. Which means that even when they are killed and wighted back to life, they are thralls to NO ONE. Because they proved that they are the true Kings of Winter, so therefore the curse or magic of winter cannot enslave them. Thus showing how Cold Hands can be sentient, whether he is the Night's King or simply just a Stark who was part of the Night's Watch.

Keep in mind, this could also be how Jon comes back to life, yet still maintains who he "is"......however he might be brought back by Ice AND Fire, if Mel tries this as well.

Thank you for reading!

While you are sort of correct everything is tied up in the concept of Mana as conceived by Polynesian cultures and Hawaiian Culture in particular. The two paths that offer mana to would be kings are sex and warfare. There is a third component that allows mana to be kept in the family and passed down to the next generation through incest. And mana is kept by a human's ability to keep the balance through their actions. Maester Barth's thread Incest is Magic shows a look at the concepts through genetics for the Targaryen bloodline but it should also be noted that the Starks have incest because while Westeros does not consider 1st cousin marriages incest it still is because of the close blood ties. Ned's mother and father were first cousins.

The Starks do have a ton of Mana through warfare and like you said the absorption of magical lines through sex but they lost a portion when Torrhen knelt to Aegon. They weren't defeated in battle like the other houses. Stark mana was given up willingly. But through rebellions and more warfare they probably gained some back. However, they losted a significant portion when Roose stabbed Robb through the heart. (You keep what you kill should be an apt quote here). Also in terms of the six Stark kids, they received a nominal amount through Robb's success and the Blackfish.

The Targaryen's had a ton of Mana held over from the times of Valyria and they kept through incest but they gain a huge amount when Aegon I came over and conquered through warfare but they lost a good portion because of Robert. However, Targaryen mana is being replenished because of Dany and regardless if Aegon VI is a true Taragaryen or not, he is still contributing to the mana pool.

Gendry, Edric, Shireen have nominal amounts of mana born from incest dragon blood but they have blood of conquerors; Gendry and Edric from Robert, Shireen from Stannis. And while Robert was murdered, he wasn't outright robbed of his mana. The bastardy of Cersei's children reflects this but note that a way to obtain mana is through warfare and thus Lannisters obtained it through Tywin (against the Reins, success in battles, Blackwater), Tyrion (His success against Stannis at the Blackwater) and kept it through incest. Tywin married his first cousin and Jaime and Cersei. Shireen has a significant portion because of the Targaryen in her which is nominal but no less there. She also has a lot of mana from Stannis and Robert.

The added component of the difference between wolf blood mana and dragon blood mana is for the purposes of ice and fire magic like some have described. The wolf blood is useful for ice magic that is why Caster's sons were such a great sacrifices to the Others. Craster probably had wolf blood and thus the incest allowed that mana to stay. Now for Mance's son. He would be a decent sacrifice for ice magic because the wildlings probably share wolf blood but he wouldn't provide enough energy if Mance had actually won against the NW or Stannis and if Mance had incest. I say decent because Mance was still able to unite the wildling tribes. Now however uncanon the tv show is this still illustrates this point. Stannis burned Mance (in the show he was killed by Jon- keep what you kill) but it didn't help him on his march towards Winter but burning Shireen did but Shireen's mana wasn't enough to ensure victory.

Now however, unlike Hawaiian culture, the preference in Planetos is for those that are successful in battle, contain that element of wolf blood or dragon blood, a level of incest and the sexual absorption of mana in order to produce a truly significant change i.e. bringing back dragons or bringing back the Others. I know this may sound a bit convoluted and truly out there but it is a multilayered concept that hasn't been fully explained yet in the books especially the wolf blood and dragon blood components.

edit: As people have noticed the rise of the Others coincided with the rebirth of dragons. There needs to be balance. I would argue that the Rhyonar water magic and to a lesser extent First men were the balance to Valyrian fire magic. As Rhyonar were defeated and the blood of the first men became diluted by Andals, this allowed Valyria to grow unchecked and thus the Doom of Valyria. So that waned the power of fire magic. Ice as an aspect of water magic, possibly a combination of water and air (I would suggest in this context would be spirit and thus blood) magic was allowed to awaken and gain a foothold again. There biggest break in the levies for ice magic was the death of the Targaryen Dragons. In the Long Night, like the Last Hero Story, it took the combined efforts of the hero and the CotF. So you have fire and earth. Now the Starks, I would contend that while they are very ice in their allusions and metaphors are in fact earth and water (the Warg king's daughters and the Marsh King). The Starks grew very powerful in their mana but they were balanced because across the narrow sea, Valyrians had there dragons. Before the BSE, the balance was all the magicks but that was fractured and balance needs to be restored by direct descendants of the Great Empire of the Dawn in the Sunset Kingdom.

[Daendrew]

Valyria is by the land of Always Summer. The North is by the Land of Always Winter.

They are both blood of the dragon. Targaryen's are blood of the fire dragon. Starks are blood of the ice dragon.

[OberynBlackfyre]

While you are sort of correct everything is tied up in the concept of Mana as conceived by Polynesian cultures and Hawaiian Culture in particular. The two paths that offer mana to would be kings are sex and warfare. There is a third component that allows mana to be kept in the family and passed down to the next generation through incest. And mana is kept by a human's ability to keep the balance through their actions. Maester Barth's thread Incest is Magic shows a look at the concepts through genetics for the Targaryen bloodline but it should also be noted that the Starks have incest because while Westeros does not consider 1st cousin marriages incest it still is because of the close blood ties. Ned's mother and father were first cousins.

The Starks do have a ton of Mana through warfare and like you said the absorption of magical lines through sex but they lost a portion when Torrhen knelt to Aegon. They weren't defeated in battle like the other houses. Stark mana was given up willingly. But through rebellions and more warfare they probably gained some back. However, they losted a significant portion when Roose stabbed Robb through the heart. (You keep what you kill should be an apt quote here). Also in terms of the six Stark kids, they received a nominal amount through Robb's success and the Blackfish.

The Targaryen's had a ton of Mana held over from the times of Valyria and they kept through incest but they gain a huge amount when Aegon I came over and conquered through warfare but they lost a good portion because of Robert. However, Targaryen mana is being replenished because of Dany and regardless if Aegon VI is a true Taragaryen or not, he is still contributing to the mana pool.

Gendry, Edric, Shireen have nominal amounts of mana born from incest dragon blood but they have blood of conquerors; Gendry and Edric from Robert, Shireen from Stannis. And while Robert was murdered, he wasn't outright robbed of his mana. The bastardy of Cersei's children reflects this but note that a way to obtain mana is through warfare and thus Lannisters obtained it through Tywin (against the Reins, success in battles, Blackwater), Tyrion (His success against Stannis at the Blackwater) and kept it through incest. Tywin married his first cousin and Jaime and Cersei. Shireen has a significant portion because of the Targaryen in her which is nominal but no less there. She also has a lot of mana from Stannis and Robert.

The added component of the difference between wolf blood mana and dragon blood mana is for the purposes of ice and fire magic like some have described. The wolf blood is useful for ice magic that is why Caster's sons were such a great sacrifices to the Others. Craster probably had wolf blood and thus the incest allowed that mana to stay. Now for Mance's son. He would be a decent sacrifice for ice magic because the wildlings probably share wolf blood but he wouldn't provide enough energy if Mance had actually won against the NW or Stannis and if Mance had incest. I say decent because Mance was still able to unite the wildling tribes. Now however uncanon the tv show is this still illustrates this point. Stannis burned Mance (in the show he was killed by Jon- keep what you kill) but it didn't help him on his march towards Winter but burning Shireen did but Shireen's mana wasn't enough to ensure victory.

Now however, unlike Hawaiian culture, the preference in Planetos is for those that are successful in battle, contain that element of wolf blood or dragon blood, a level of incest and the sexual absorption of mana in order to produce a truly significant change i.e. bringing back dragons or bringing back the Others. I know this may sound a bit convoluted and truly out there but it is a multilayered concept that hasn't been fully explained yet in the books especially the wolf blood and dragon blood components.

edit: As people have noticed the rise of the Others coincided with the rebirth of dragons. There needs to be balance. I would argue that the Rhyonar water magic and to a lesser extent First men were the balance to Valyrian fire magic. As Rhyonar were defeated and the blood of the first men became diluted by Andals, this allowed Valyria to grow unchecked and thus the Doom of Valyria. So that waned the power of fire magic. Ice as an aspect of water magic, possibly a combination of water and air (I would suggest in this context would be spirit and thus blood) magic was allowed to awaken and gain a foothold again. There biggest break in the levies for ice magic was the death of the Targaryen Dragons. In the Long Night, like the Last Hero Story, it took the combined efforts of the hero and the CotF. So you have fire and earth. Now the Starks, I would contend that while they are very ice in their allusions and metaphors are in fact earth and water (the Warg king's daughters and the Marsh King). The Starks grew very powerful in their mana but they were balanced because across the narrow sea, Valyrians had there dragons. Before the BSE, the balance was all the magicks but that was fractured and balance needs to be restored by direct descendants of the Great Empire of the Dawn in the Sunset Kingdom.

very nice explanation! I pretty much agree with everything other than the fact that Starks "lost" any of said mana when The King who Knelt gave fealty to Aegon.

I don't really think magic is symbolic in these terms, as many supernatural things within Planetos are also combined with genetics. Now for instance if Aegon took a daughter of Torrhen or a son to marry one of his daughters, then yes I would completely agree that some was lost, or at least intermingled with that of the Targaryens. However, that never happens at that point and time.............but it DOES happen later on when Bloodraven is born from a union between Aegon the Unworthy and a Blackwood woman----and given how powerful Bloodraven is, I think that says a lot. He might even have been part of the prince was promised thing, except he was at the wrong time. I mean think about it.

bloodravens deeds:

-Killed Daemon Blackfyre and his sons, ending the Blackfyre rebellion.

-Killed Fireball before the battle, thus taking away Daemons best protector/commander.

-Ended the second Blackfyre rebellion before it even began.

-took down the Red Kraken.

-killed another of the Blackfyre pretenders, sacrificing his honor for it.

-became Lord Commander of the NIght's Watch

-became the last greenseer and for decades has been setting in motion the protection of Planetos (most likely).

[OberynBlackfyre]

Jojen has green dreams. That isn't the same as being a green seer. Jojen says the 3 eyed crow came to him after he almost drowned. The 3 eyed crow came to Bran after his fall. Clearly, BR orchestrated this. I believe this because it happened twice in the text. Once to Jojen and once to Bran.

The Targaryens also have their own line of seers and dreamers. Are we to think that the Targs also have CoTF in their blood lines? The Valyrians believed that they came from the dragons. A race of humans born from dragons? That is truly magical.

The Starks say the blood of the First Men runs through their veins. The First Men warred with the CoTF. Eventually, they made a pact that allowed the FM to have all of the land except for the deep forests and they were to leave the Weirwood trees alone. So, the First Men populated Westeros from the broken arm or elbow all the way to The Land of Always Winter. Supposedly, this is where the Others came from. So, are all Others Starks? Or, is there another connection between the Others and the Starks? Nan says the Night's King was a Stark of Winterfell.

Clearly, the Wildings have the blood of the First Men as well. Who else but them were caught on the wrong side of the Wall after it was built? So, if blood tells, perhaps that's why Jon Snow had sympathy for the Wildings. They share the same blood, which means all Starks are descended from the First Men or the Wildings. If you're mixing different bloodlines, lets not forget the tale of Bael the Bard. He stole a daughter of Winterfell and left a blue rose on her pillow. When she was found again, she was with child and bore Bael's son. Mance liked to play his little jokes and called himself "Abel (Bael) when he went to Winterfell to steal a daughter of Winterfell).

So, where does the magic of Stark blood come from? Is it magic of their own or magic bestowed upon them by the Children, or worse, (presumably), by the Others? Did the magic come from breeding with these magical races, or families? Why did the Last King of Winter kneel to Aegon? An unlikely scenario for so powerful a king. Was he only protecting his people or were their bigger things at stake? No one knows truly why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. By no one, I mean none of us. Did Ned know? Cat? It seems all of the Starks had common knowledge of this fact, but, they never say out loud why that is.

Dany's power came to her through her blood, but, it was not until the death of her brother, her husband and her son that she became the mother of three dragons. In my estimation, those were 3 lives given for 3 dragons. (Only death can pay for life).

Well truly it seems that ALL types of magics have similar qualities to them. I mean greenseers are probably the "nature magic" equivalent to dragonlords/pyromancers, as the Others are equivalent to those as well. Each have ways of connecting with the animals of their element, and each have a way of communicating with others in far distances (the weirwoods, the glass candles), and it's not unreasonable to think that "dragon dreams" are similar to "green dreams" but just shown in two different styles of magics.

As far as what magic is within the Starks....that is the question. I would ASSUME it is a type of ice magic, and that they fought "ice with ice" type of deal, and that's what made them not only Kings in the North, but also Kings of Winter. However I also find it interesting that the Boltons also came from the Long Night, and their eyes are somewhat supernatural in ways, so I am somewhat loathe to say that the Starks have Others blood within them....but it's a possibility. I think the Starks could have gotten a "blessing" from the Ice magic that was able to defeat the Others (probably through the help of the Children of the Forest), as to where the Boltons/Others tried to make Ice magic their slave, and use it to purely conquer and gain more power for themselves.

[OberynBlackfyre]

Maybe the dragons they fucked were different than the known dragons. Whatever the case, they occasionally give birth to half human half dragon monstrosities. The actual process of how this mating took place does not matter much (whether by traditional humping or bio-engineering). Dragonlords literally have reptile blood in their veins.

exactly. When people talk about how "crazy" it is for Targaryens/Valyrians to have dragon blood in them, I point to the fact that there are about 3 different still births in the books in which the babies came out as human/dragon hybrids.

[Lady Barbrey]

Well OberynBlackfyre, I loved your original post, and hope you are alerted to duck in for a moment to see my post telling you so after a month of no activity on this thread.

 

I am wondering if what you've just done with this post is pinpointed why the Targaryan dragons began to lose their strength, size, virility over the next 200 years after coming to Westeros.  They weren't just killed off in the DwD.  They were growing smaller in size over those years and the last skeleton is just a sick spindly little thing.

 

Could it be because Torrhen bent the knee and became a lord instead of a king? Perhaps the curse doesn't fall on one person, but on an actual bloodline of people who presume to call themselves kings over the north without sharing the First Barrow King's genes?

 

I've been fascinated by the Dustins since the World Book came out.  I loved when you stated that by marrying into the Dustins, the Starks escape the CURSE, i.e, that no other king but one with Dustin blood from the first Barrow King could call himself king of the north, or they would be cursed to dwindle away to nothing.

 

Targaryans and their dragons are magically bound (however that was done) and the name "dragon" can be used almost interchangeably for man or beast.  In a scant few hundred years, there are only a few Targaryans left and no dragons at all.  Part of this is because of wars, but there must also be a reason that by the end almost all of Aerys' children were stillborn.

 

This seems too coincidental and I've always wondered about it. Was it the air? I wondered.  Perhaps sinister maesters from the Citadel?

 

But I think you've actually pegged it (if you agree with me that this makes sense?) that it could simply be a good old-fashioned curse laid by the rather formidable King of the First Men, Somebody or Other Dustin.

 

Dany was able to wake the dragons, and they seem like they'll grow to strong ones, as she appears to be becoming a strong woman.  But they were born in Essos. She was born on Dragonstone.  Neither have been raised anywhere near the kryptonite of old King Dustin's curse.  Most importantly, no Targaryan is currently king or queen of the North, the realm of the First Men.

 

Beauty.

[Colton Casados-Medve]

I absolutely love the idea that the Starks can be wighted back yet are thralls to no one... This could explain how Coldhands came to be, providing it was not Bloodraven that somehow liberated him. Even so, the magic of the wall prevents the raised Stark from crossing. 

 

It would also be very interesting if Coldhands turned out to be Benjen, or another famous Stark. 

 

I suspect we will be seeing Coldhands in The Winds of Winter. 

 

If the Wall is attacked soon after Jon's death and his spirit is preserved in Ghost, I would assume he looks dead like Coldhands. When this "ice" magic resurrection is mingled with the "fire" magic resurrection that Melisandre will use, it will perhaps restore Jon as a functioning human. He will then warg back into his body. 

[Colton Casados-Medve]

Double post sorry

[evita mgfs]

HEY HEY HEY - I am sure what I have to say has probably been done to death; therefore, I will not bother including textual evidences to support my assertions about the mating rituals and complications between and among wargs and skinchangers and greenseers and humans.

A human female wargs her she-wolf and then strolls through woods, tunnels, caves, and the like seeking out a prospective male wolf or alpha who is a warg/skinchanger in the guise of wolf or direwolf.

Brandon the Builder as warg in his direwolf may have mated / "tied" with a warg, [perhaps a female Singer of those who Sing the Songs of Earth]  and she dons the skin of a desirous direwolf, or a wanton shewolf, or a dirty dog, or another possible canine mate,   

I think the DNA/genetics that the Starks share in their blood of the First Men, in their inherited warg/wolfish natures, in the passing down of the potential to command powerful magic, and in their bloodlines that make one or more a greenseer - comes about as a sexual union that does not conceal a nasty secret of bestiality among the Stark progeny over the centuries.

Beast and beast mate while warg or skinchanger or greenseer is "inhouse" . Nothing vulgar or nasty.  In ancient Greek mythology, "pimp daddy Zeus" preyed on young, virginal mortal girls.  Since a mere mortal could not look upon the manhood of a naked Zeus without being blinded or struck dead, Zeus changes his form - and sometimes the form of his lady love -  to accommodate the female he desired.

Zeus takes the form of a bull, a cuckoo bird, and a shower of gold to seduce his mortal beloveds.  Moreover, all sexual unions with 
Zeus are fruitful, as he is the king and father of the Olympian gods and goddesses,- and the cheating husband of the perpetually jealous and vengeful Hera.

 

[OberynBlackfyre]

I seriously want to know now of WHAT the whole "there must be a Stark in Winterfell" thing has to do with magic.  I mean I absolutely believe it does have something based in rituals, but I'm just not 100% sure what that could be.  

Possibly something with the Wall? 

[Khal BlackfyreO]

On 6/21/2015 at 0:21 PM, LordImp said:

But did they fuck dragons ? Doubt it.

Dragons f$%&ed them!!!!

[7-String]

On 6/27/2016 at 11:44 PM, OberynBlackfyre said:

I seriously want to know now of WHAT the whole "there must be a Stark in Winterfell" thing has to do with magic.  I mean I absolutely believe it does have something based in rituals, but I'm just not 100% sure what that could be.  

Possibly something with the Wall? 

Nothing..

It's just a saying that the Starks have, to justify their continued control of Winterfell.  It's like saying there HAS to be a Tully in Riverrun. Well there doesn't have to be, if you've killed them all. 

Not to mention that there currently isn't any Stark in Winterfell so the saying is obviously untrue.