LGBTQI - We're here, we're...you know the rest of it

[Robin Of House Hill]

My contribution to the topic of family acceptance, or lack of it.

When I transitioned, the only close family I had, was my father and sister. When I informed them what was going to happen, I could tell, they weren't exactly happy about it, but were resigned to the fact it was going to happen, so there was no active opposition.

About a decade later, my father informed me he'd made out his will and his estate was going to my sister, except for a life insurance policy ( a small one, which it turned out, he'd borrowed against) where I was the beneficiary. About a year later, my sister called to inform me that he'd passed away. When I inquired about funeral arrangements, she told me it might be awkward if I attended, since no one was aware, I was a woman, now." I knew her well enough to know that if I attended, she'd make me pay for it, so I didn't fight her. I later learned that when people asked why I wasn't there, she outed me to all of them.

A few weeks later, I asked about the insurance policy. She told me all proceeds went to her. Since that was not what I was told by my father, I threatened legal action. I got a response from her lawyer, including an unsigned copy of the will. My demand to see the signature, was denied. I determined that the proceeds from the insurance policy wouldn't cover the cost of litigation, so I gave up.. I did the only thing I could do. The next two times I moved, I filed no change of address and simply removed my sister from my life, entirely.

[lessthanluke]

It's almost certainly not purely genetic, but contains epigenetic elements (stuff happens in the womb). Personally I think that from that point you get some people hard wired gay or straight, and an awful lot with the capacity to be bi. Socialisation then takes those with the capacity to be bi, makes most of them straight, some stay bi and some end up gay. I still don't think it ends up being a choice for these people either, the brain is plastic and can be modified in a solid physical way by social events, and I think you see this reflected in the sexuality of trans people - much higher rates of homosexuality and bisexuality amongst later transitioning trans people because our socialisation is flipped from the norm and pushes us in that direction.

I think I had the capacity to be bi, but socialisation and particularly my feelings about men have pushed me gay. I'm still awful close though, and I'm sure there are men out there I could fall for and definitely some I'd have sex with (hiddleston or Pedro pascal for eg) but it would be despite their being men, where I find women attractive in part because they are women. So I identify as queer, because while I'm functionally gay the possibility exists, but that possibility isn't high or in the right tone to consider myself bi and definitely not pan (the way I see pan).

You totally love me though. I see through your pretend hatred of men.

[Tellus Explorer]

My contribution to the topic of family acceptance, or lack of it.

When I transitioned, the only close family I had, was my father and sister. When I informed them what was going to happen, I could tell, they weren't exactly happy about it, but were resigned to the fact it was going to happen, so there was no active opposition.

About a decade later, my father informed me he'd made out his will and his estate was going to my sister, except for a life insurance policy ( a small one, which it turned out, he'd borrowed against) where I was the beneficiary. About a year later, my sister called to inform me that he'd passed away. When I inquired about funeral arrangements, she told me it might be awkward if I attended, since no one was aware, I was a woman, now." I knew her well enough to know that if I attended, she'd make me pay for it, so I didn't fight her. I later learned that when people asked why I wasn't there, she outed me to all of them.

A few weeks later, I asked about the insurance policy. She told me all proceeds went to her. Since that was not what I was told by my father, I threatened legal action. I got a response from her lawyer, including an unsigned copy of the will. My demand to see the signature, was denied. I determined that the proceeds from the insurance policy wouldn't cover the cost of litigation, so I gave up.. I did the only thing I could do. The next two times I moved, I filed no change of address and simply removed my sister from my life, entirely.

That's so sad Robin, I'm truly very sorry :grouphug:

Has anything recovered since? Has anyone from before accepted you for being yourself? I feel like I already know the answer to this, though I still feel like I should ask. :(

The only reason why I'm still in contact with my hateful mother is on account of my siblings (both of their dad's aren't in the picture and I heard my mother was to be starting her new life, with her new guy rather shortly.

One of my brother's are kind of wary of my life and usually avoids me.

Though the other two are very welcoming, which I appreciate.

The other siblings (from the family I was with nine months of my life) are far too young to understand and my other mother is still accepting of me.

Her husband, still standoffish..... Sometimes completely ignoring my existence in a room. But meh, can't please everyone, right?

[Robin Of House Hill]

I've had no contact with any member of my family since about 1989. Don't get me wrong. what I got from them was better than outright rejection and hostility, but in the final analysis, they showed me how they really felt. A lot of trans people got much worse treatment by their families.

It's probably one of the reasons, there are only four people in real life, that I've ever dealt with face to face, that I've ever told that I'm trans. One of those is my partner of over 30 years. Other than that, I do my best to keep people from knowing.

[brook]

Cora sweetie huge hugs. My family is as dysfunctional as they come but my sexuality isn't an issue and I'm grateful for that.

I honestly don't know if I was born bi or when or how my sexuality developed but I do know my attraction to women was presenf before my attraction to men and that the more I tried supress it or pretend it didn't matter the more it did.

[karaddin]

You totally love me though. I see through your pretend hatred of men.

I challenge anyone to say the strongest man in Wales in your weight class that also wears blackmilk tights is not exceptional :p

Cora I'm still half asleep, I'll see if I've got any answer to your second post a bit later with a proper keyboard.

[Tellus Explorer]

^ lol no problem

I've had no contact with any member of my family since about 1989. Don't get me wrong. what I got from them was better than outright rejection and hostility, but in the final analysis, they showed me how they really felt. A lot of trans people got much worse treatment by their families.

It's probably one of the reasons, there are only four people in real life, that I've ever dealt with face to face, that I've ever told that I'm trans. One of those is my partner of over 30 years. Other than that, I do my best to keep people from knowing.

You're really strong Robin! Since I've know about you, I've thought this and still do.

I'm glad you and your partner are still going strong.

:grouphug:

Cora sweetie huge hugs. My family is as dysfunctional as they come but my sexuality isn't an issue and I'm grateful for that.

I honestly don't know if I was born bi or when or how my sexuality developed but I do know my attraction to women was presenf before my attraction to men and that the more I tried supress it or pretend it didn't matter the more it did.

Oh that's really interesting was it an immediate thing? Where you were self aware?

Also :grouphug: because duh you're Brook!!

[Robin Of House Hill]

^ lol no problem

You're really strong Robin! Since I've know about you, I've thought this and still do.

I'm glad you and your partner are still going strong.

:grouphug:

Me too. Without her, I don't know how I'd have made it, this far. Karaddin once told me that I see the world through a very dark lens. It's true. From my viewpoint, if most people realized I am trans, they will see me as less, than they would, otherwise. That makes the very few who don't feel that way and actually do care, all the more precious. Thank you for caring.

[Tellus Explorer]

The way I see that, is that there's a thin line between pessimism and realism.

There's nothing wrong with you feeling as you do, for the reasons you do. (You wouldn't feel them without cause, I'd assume?) Though if we're existing in the negative with very little good to balance it out, its easy for our realistic cautiousness to become gloom and doom (per se)

Though, that's merely my humble opinion.

[Ormond]

The relationship between physical heredity and sexual orientation is complex, and one must always be careful to look at how different research studies have defined who is gay, lesbian, or bisexual. (Purely behavioral definitions end up looking at different sets of people than definitions according to self-designation or reported same sex attraction.)

But here are a few links that seem to be fairly good to me to get one started on understanding the science of the subject:

First a Washington Post article by a geneticist:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/06/04/the-science-of-sexuality-how-our-genes-make-us-gay-or-straight/

A scholarly article on one of the better genetic inheritance studies (may be hard for those without much prior experience in reading these to follow):

http://ioa126.medsch.wisc.edu/findings/pdfs/47.pdf

A "Science Daily" report on one of the main epigenetic studies (Note: I really dislike the sentence near the end of this that says the study "solves the evolutionary riddle of homosexuality" because no one study is ever going to "solve" an entire scientific question.)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121211083212.htm

Though it doesn't mention epigenetics, the following seems to be a good short presentation on biological factors:

http://www.lgbtscience.org/biological-factors/

The above is only a start -- just remember that no one research study can give you the total picture, but the bottom line is that biological factors are certainly a major influence on sexual orientation.

[Weeping Sore]

@Robin-

Your being trans may have just given your family the excuse they needed to be assholes. I see it every day, children of elderly folks pressuring them to change wills, not-so-ethical lawyers executing the "wishes" of elderly people who may not have all of their mental faculties. So often the sibling in closest proximity to the soon-to-be-deceased makes out. I have no knowledge that was the case with your father, but the fact that people are often greedy shits is a larger truth than the fact that people are often transphobic. Of course there's nothing preventing anyone from being both at once. Good riddance, but maybe your sister will have some second thoughts/ guilt as trans people begin to win more acceptance in society.

[Robin Of House Hill]

@Robin-

Your being trans may have just given your family the excuse they needed to be assholes. I see it every day, children of elderly folks pressuring them to change wills, not-so-ethical lawyers executing the "wishes" of elderly people who may not have all of their mental faculties. So often the sibling in closest proximity to the soon-to-be-deceased makes out. I have no knowledge that was the case with your father, but the fact that people are often greedy shits is a larger truth than the fact that people are often transphobic. Of course there's nothing preventing anyone from being both at once. Good riddance, but maybe your sister will have some second thoughts/ guilt as trans people begin to win more acceptance in society.

You could be right, but it really doesn't matter. Out of curiosity, I just checked and she isn't the current owner of the house she inherited. I have no desire to get back in touch with her. We were never really close.And, of course, she committed the one sin, I can never forgive. She outed me.

[Kindly Old Man]

You could be right, but it really doesn't matter. Out of curiosity, I just checked and she isn't the current owner of the house she inherited. I have no desire to get back in touch with her. We were never really close.And, of course, she committed the one sin, I can never forgive. She outed me.

Robin (or anyone really),

Can you help me with something? My brother is transgender, and he is out to most people (all my and his old friends know, etc.) However, he is estranged from my parents, who do not know he is transgender (they fell out a long time ago, when he came out as queer). He went through a really rough time after that, and the subject of our parents is one we have not discussed for years. Since then, I've had this weird situation where with everyone else in my life he's my brother, referred to by his real name, but with my parents I have to talk about my "sister" , <deadname>. This has kind of been rankling me more and more recently, but obviously it's not my feelings that are important here, and I would never out someone. Do you think it's better for me to suck it up and ask him what he wants, even though I know the conversation may be hurtful and one he may not want to have, or keep up this charade? Or something else?

[Weeping Sore]

@Kindly Old Man - I would check with him first or keep up the charade. It should be his decision even if he's not speaking directly to your parents.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Definitely his decision. It may seem needlessly difficult to keep up both modes of reference, but it's really his decision to make Your asking is appreciated.

[Kindly Old Man]

Sounds good, thanks!

[karaddin]

Just going back to what Robin said about viewing the world through a dark lens, I want to add some context to that as I don't want it to sound like I was being mean. I also said that there were very good rational reasons why she sees the world that way, and she may well be right, and that that attitude can be necessary for physical safety. Even when right however I think it's psychologically harmful to view everyone you meet as a hostile combatant, so a periodic evaluation of whether it's still necessary for your physical safety is a good thing to be doing.

I wasn't calling Robin paranoid or irrational, given the same life I'm confident I'd have exactly the same view and the struggle I was talking about at the end of the last thread and the start of this was in part the struggle to retain my optimism about the world as I was feeling more and more like Robin was right.

KOM - definitely his decision to make, but I think it speaks well of you that continuing to use incorrect pronouns and deadname to your parents grates on you. It shows real acceptance on your part and an understanding of how we typically feel about that, so don't feel bad about asking here. I'd just suggest that when asking your brother you make it clear that that is why you are asking - because referring to him by the wrong name and pronouns feels wrong to you.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Just going back to what Robin said about viewing the world through a dark lens, I want to add some context to that as I don't want it to sound like I was being mean. I also said that there were very good rational reasons why she sees the world that way, and she may well be right, and that that attitude can be necessary for physical safety. Even when right however I think it's psychologically harmful to view everyone you meet as a hostile combatant, so a periodic evaluation of whether it's still necessary for your physical safety is a good thing to be doing.

I wasn't calling Robin paranoid or irrational, given the same life I'm confident I'd have exactly the same view and the struggle I was talking about at the end of the last thread and the start of this was in part the struggle to retain my optimism about the world as I was feeling more and more like Robin was right.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought you were being mean or calling me paranoid, because clearly, you were not. Your observation that I do view the world through a very dark lens, is accurate. And while I haven't quite reached the level of viewing everyone as a hostile combatant, I do scan everyone on the street through a filter of what, if any threat they represent.That type of hyper-vigilance has its impact. It would make life a hell of a lot more enjoyable, if I could shake the feeling that increase awareness by the general public, of the existence of trans people, has made the world, less safe, not more safe.

The thread you referred to didn't bother me as much as it bothered you, because, for me, it simply confirmed my perception of the world.

[karaddin]

Oh I didn't think you were saying it at all, I was just worried that phrased out of context like that it would sound that way to others.

What you say about that thread and it's impact makes sense, it's much more upsetting to have your world view and beliefs upended than simply have it confirmed that a lot of people are dickbags.

[karaddin]

Sorry to double post, but wanted to bring up something positive now. I've been watching sense8 the last few days, and after seeing the other thread open at the moment about bodies are beautiful it made me realise something. I'm finding the Nomi and Amanita ridiculously hot, and not just because they are really beautiful women. There is something intoxicating about seeing a positive sexual relationship on the screen that approximates my own - a trans woman with a cis woman. They are much more involved in the LGBTQI community than Brook and I, and they don't look anything like us, but that core similarity is there. The show very much treats it as hot as well, and Nomi as a body worthy of desire without being at all male gazey or objectifying or anything about her genitals - at least at the point I'm at I've got no idea if she's had surgery or not and it feels very empowering in fact. I knew that seeing lesbian relationships on screen had a big impact on me, yet I'm still surprised at how much extra punch it packs when there is a trans woman being shown like this. Laverne Cox in OITNB is great, but since the first season she's been very limited in what she's had to do and it's almost all been about being trans. With Nomi that's still part of the story but it's not all of her story, and getting to see her in a positive loving sexual relationship is a big difference.

Just really loving it and amazed by how much these scenes are doing for me.