If just one could survive, whom would you choose - Dany or Jon?

[Julia H.]

"The Night's Watch Takes No Part" is a ship that sailed away, never to return, when Mormont wrote to all the contenders for the Iron Throne, asking for aid. Then, Stannis turned up at the Wall, saved the Watch, and had to be given aid in turn. The government in Kings Landing viewed the Watch as enemies from that point.

Cersei marked Jon down for assassination as soon as he was elected. As far as Jon knew, his sister was fleeing to the Wall. It was natural and right that he should try to intercept her, and save her from rape and capture. Finally, he responded correctly to a demand to surrender his guests to Ramsay Bolton. The Lord Commander of the Watch is not, and should never be, a doormat.

:agree:

That last sentence should be engraved on every Lord Commander's sword. :cool4:

[Mithras]

"The Night's Watch Takes No Part" is a ship that sailed away, never to return, when Mormont wrote to all the contenders for the Iron Throne, asking for aid. Then, Stannis turned up at the Wall, saved the Watch, and had to be given aid in turn. The government in Kings Landing viewed the Watch as enemies from that point.

Cersei marked Jon down for assassination as soon as he was elected. As far as Jon knew, his sister was fleeing to the Wall. It was natural and right that he should try to intercept her, and save her from rape and capture. Finally, he responded correctly to a demand to surrender his guests to Ramsay Bolton. The Lord Commander of the Watch is not, and should never be, a doormat.

*claps*

[Minsc]

crucifier of innocents

Can we have a name of one of these innocents?

While, neither character particularly interest me I would say Dany. Simply, Jon has already had enough second chances thus lets not give him another chance after he has been killed. Moreover, storywise at least Dany has a couple badass moments (birth of dragons, house of undying, Dracays....) while Jon's highlight is executing a c-list (at best) antagonist.

[Ivan Tsarevich]

Dany. I find Wall and beyond more interesting than Slaver's Bay, and certainly enjoyed Jon more in ADWD. But I want that girl in Westeros with everything she's got, or else I've suffered Daario in vain.

[Stormking Alesander I]

Can we have a name of one of these innocents?

While, neither character particularly interest me I would say Dany. Simply, Jon has already had enough second chances thus lets not give him another chance after he has been killed. Moreover, storywise at least Dany has a couple badass moments (birth of dragons, house of undying, Dracays....) while Jon's highlight is executing a c-list (at best) antagonist.

Out of the 163 masters of Mereen crucified, none had anything to do concerning the childrens' crucifixion?

[Minsc]

Out of the 163 masters of Mereen crucified, none had anything to do concerning the childrens' crucifixion?

Really? Surely you have a handy quote proving that charge.

[TheOne-EyedHound]

Dany because I find her growth fascinating/interesting.

I do pity Jon though after re-reading the Tyrion & Jon chapters in aGoT.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Jon.

For two reasons:

1) I've thought since I first read it that Dany will see Drogo again, but mostly that he'll come to get her as she dies herself after leaving an heir (who I hope isn't Jon's - if Aegon can serve any purpose it is to get some fresh blood into the Targ line - and no I don't think he's Rhaegar's son even if he may have Targ blood).

2) Jon being left with the responsibility of a Kingdom (as I think Dany will leave an heir - I see Jon being more of a regent than a crowned king), especially when by everything we've read he wouldn't really want it, would never have thought of it for himself, but is totally the kind of person to step up because it is his duty and it needs to be done, would be a bitter sweet ending for him cause at best the Game will pause for the Others, it won't stop.

[RoamingRonin]

Daenerys. I like Jon, but Daenerys is the more unique and complex character of the two.

This.

[SeanF]

This.

Death might be a fitting end to Dany's story.

I think the answer is, whichever would make most literary sense.

[Hajk]

If Jon were to take the throne he would probably get assassinated within a year. There is far too much duplicity, backstabbing and deception in Westeros. Plus he will try to be honorable and go the way of Ned and Robb before him.

With all the current chaos and the Faith and everything else what might be needed is someone who can bring a bit of the Dragon's Wroth or Maegor to the table when needed. So I go for Dany.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Trying to prevent the rape of a sibling is not what I would consider to be selfish.

I'm not even sure it was that. As I recall Ramsey (or whomever wrote the letter) was threatening to bring forces to the Wall and destroy the watch, on top of the rape of "Arya" etc. I know the NW takes no part, but I don't think that translates to them just allowing themselves to be slaughtered if there happens to be a madman as the Lord of Winterfell.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Out of the 163 masters of Mereen crucified, none had anything to do concerning the childrens' crucifixion?

While personally I don't have an issue with the way she handled things - it certainly wasn't outside the realm of what is considered justice in either Essos or Westeros - I think what bugs people is she didn't take the time to find out whether the 163 she crucified had anything to do with the death of the children. As nice as it would have been, I just don't expect anyone to do that sort of due process in these books.

If Jon were to take the throne he would probably get assassinated within a year. There is far too much duplicity, backstabbing and deception in Westeros. Plus he will try to be honorable and go the way of Ned and Robb before him.

With all the current chaos and the Faith and everything else what might be needed is someone who can bring a bit of the Dragon's Wroth or Maegor to the table when needed. So I go for Dany.

Yeah I'm not so sure of that anymore. Assuming he comes back - regardless of whether he actually dies or is just "mostly dead" to borrow a phrase from the Princess Bride - I don't see him being as trusting of anyone, and thing he will be much more ruthless in how he deals with people. Not that he won't still have altruistic goals for the realm as a whole, but that he won't trust people half as much as he did before he got stabbed.

[The Holy Goat]

Actually here is the passage it should refer to, Mithras:

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason.

Page 909, from the paperback. Second paragraph.

Jon knew he was about to commit treason. And ofcourse it was oathbreaking.

If i recall correctly the sentences in italics are statements which he remembers others have said. It's Jon's internal voice repeating all the things he has been told over the series. "What you propose is nothing less than treason." has previously been said to Jon by Bowen Marsh. The next line in italics is a quote from Maester Aemon, the one after that originally from Ygritte, the last one is from Ramsay's letter.

So in my eyes it's still up in the air wether Jon considered this a breaking of his oath.

@SeanF and @sweetsunray: I agree.

[wefollowthecomet]

Dany is motivated by crowns and thrones, and even though I think she has a good heart - she's too whiny and has to force / buy people to follow her. Even fAegon has more of a natural (un forced) following than Dany.

Who has she forced to follow her?

[wefollowthecomet]

Genocidal maniac, stupid girl and crucifier of innocents

She is none of these thing

Genocidal maniac- I don't even know what you are referring to here

Stupid girl-She may be uneducated, but she isn't stupid

Crucider of innocents-The slavers were hardly innocent

[Destroyer of Nations]

Agreed: when others do not respect your neutrality, then fuck neutrality. Belgium was supposed to remain neutral too, until troops walked all over our borders almost to France and were stopped at Flander's fields. Ramsay Bolton made a direct threat to the LC of the Night's watch for hostages he either didn't have (Reek and bride) or were there under guest right, and he couldn't surrender and what would have been a bunch of lies about Mance in their eyes, while nobody else ever gave them any aid, except for Stannis.

A fellow Belgian! How do you do?

Too bad we have different views, very different views.

[Destroyer of Nations]

I stand by my opinion regarding Jon and Dany's leadership qualities and their subsequent betrayals by their own people. However, I do see other people's points. Don't follow them but I can understand their reasoning.

I think Dany is a much more interesting character, she has a very dark side and that's far more fun to read. I think Jon is far too much of a classical hero. I find him very boring. When I read his chapters, I can almost predict what he is going to say or do next.

[sweetsunray]

A fellow Belgian! How do you do?

Too bad we have different views, very different views.

Well we've been trampled by all foreigns nations and treated like a doormat since Caesar's time. And sure the French and English had their own reasons to use "the rape of Belgium" as a pretext to ally themselves against Germany back then. But at least after the second time, our independence from other nations has been respected. I'm from the region of the flag you use for avatar.

[Destroyer of Nations]

Well we've been trampled by all foreigns nations and treated like a doormat since Caesar's time. And sure the French and English had their own reasons to use "the rape of Belgium" as a pretext to ally themselves against Germany back then. But at least after the second time, our independence from other nations has been respected. I'm from the region of the flag you use for avatar.

I am from Antwerp myself. I identify as Flemish far more than I do as a Belgian.

That's because we are the battleground of Europe. We are strategically very dangerous. We have access to both Germany and France. We have been fought in and over for a thousand years. Learned that in Political and Institutional History of Belgium and the Netherlands, a course of the Bachelor of Laws program at the University of Antwerp. Yes, a law student. :)