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Season 6 Foreshadowing...


LatrineDiggerBrian

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You could say that about anyone's story at certain points in the books. It's called setup.

Arya's training slowed her down at times, Tyrion's political dueling became repetitive, Dany was mired in Essos for quite some time, etc. When you adapt, you pick the choice parts, but you don't gut characterization/storylines.

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I think there is more foreshadowing from Aemon telling Jon to "kill the boy" than anything. The boy being Olly. And not just Olly, but Ramsay was originally cast as "boy" to keep people guessing as to who he was.

 

Feed them both to Ghost.

 

Although Ramsay is much more interesting than some made up character.

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Because the one major gaping flaw of Book Sansa's story is that it is completely isolated from every other storyline, to the point where you are leaving the reader / viewer wondering what the actual point of what they  are reading / seeing. Its a narrative silo, a complete cul de sac of a story. Thats even ignoring the fact that in terms of actual plot and story momentum its totally lacking any real interesting events or scenes. She 'interacts' with nothing of relevance in the books, to the point where you could basically cut out all of her chapters and I don't think it would matter one jot. I take the piss out of it saying she's just wiping a kids nose, obviously theres more to it than that, but looking after Robert and interacting with a few very minor lords is basically her entire story. Its a real problem for anyone making an adaptation.
In a tv show I really don't think you get the luxury of having entire threads of story that seemingly go nowhere and seem unrelated to anything else. 

What I'm defending is D&Ds comments, which have been twisted to mean something they don't mean, plus the decision to make Sansa a more central character on the show. I'm not defending the quality of the writing of those scenes and thats the difference. There are plenty of elements of this season worthy of being slated, but most of the things brought up around here I find rather ludicrous as criticisms. 

 

You know who else is isolated from every other storyline in ADWD? Arya. Tyrion. Brienne. All of Dorne and Iron Islands. Hell, pretty much every single character goes their own way in AFFC and ADWD. Dany has been isolated from every other storyline since Book 1. If the main storyline is the fight against the others then pretty much every single character apart from Jon has been isolated from it. Yet somehow it's only Sansa having her own storyline and character arc that is a problem. Again, she had only three chapters since ASOS, all mostly used to set up her setting. She's also very close to LF who she has unresolved history with and experience shows that LF tends to be involved in game-changing plots. All of this setup is leading to something that will presumably happen in Winds. It's obviously going somewhere.

You keep repeating that the TV show does not have the luxury of having entire story threads that go seemingly nowhere. Yet, what is Sansa's S5 arc if not an entire story thread that goes nowhere? Basically every single character in that storyline (except Theon, but again, he's hardly that important) ends up exactly where they were at the beginning of it. Sansa's determined to avenge her family/reclaim the North - as she was at the beginning of the season. She's on the run - as before. The Bolton's are still the undisputed Wardens of the North. Having lost their free Stark bride, they are still facing the Northern opposition (not that it seems to have affected them in any way up to this point). Sansa's presence didn't aid or hinder Stannis and he still lost. Jon didn't make any decisions based on Sansa being there/in danger (did he even know?) but got stabbed to death for unrelated reasons. Theon finally reclaimed enough of his spine to run away from his abuser and an extremely minor character died. Woohoo. It all went absolutely nowhere. As did pretty much all new invented storylines added in the show.

I don't see a lot of criticism based on D&D comments (For my part at least I almost never read or watch interviews  and the only D&D comments I'm aware of are those mentioned in passing by other people). Pretty much all the criticism I see has to do with poor storytelling choices and butchering of characters and storylines. Nothing of which has anything to do with what D&D have to say about it after the fact. 

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You know who else is isolated from every other storyline in ADWD? Arya. Tyrion. Brienne. All of Dorne and Iron Islands. Hell, pretty much every single character goes their own way in AFFC and ADWD. Dany has been isolated from every other storyline since Book 1. If the main storyline is the fight against the others then pretty much every single character apart from Jon has been isolated from it. Yet somehow it's only Sansa having her own storyline and character arc that is a problem. Again, she had only three chapters since ASOS, all mostly used to set up her setting. She's also very close to LF who she has unresolved history with and experience shows that LF tends to be involved in game-changing plots. All of this setup is leading to something that will presumably happen in Winds. It's obviously going somewhere.

You keep repeating that the TV show does not have the luxury of having entire story threads that go seemingly nowhere. Yet, what is Sansa's S5 arc if not an entire story thread that goes nowhere? Basically every single character in that storyline (except Theon, but again, he's hardly that important) ends up exactly where they were at the beginning of it. Sansa's determined to avenge her family/reclaim the North - as she was at the beginning of the season. She's on the run - as before. The Bolton's are still the undisputed Wardens of the North. Having lost their free Stark bride, they are still facing the Northern opposition (not that it seems to have affected them in any way up to this point). Sansa's presence didn't aid or hinder Stannis and he still lost. Jon didn't make any decisions based on Sansa being there/in danger (did he even know?) but got stabbed to death for unrelated reasons. Theon finally reclaimed enough of his spine to run away from his abuser and an extremely minor character died. Woohoo. It all went absolutely nowhere. As did pretty much all new invented storylines added in the show.

I don't see a lot of criticism based on D&D comments (For my part at least I almost never read or watch interviews  and the only D&D comments I'm aware of are those mentioned in passing by other people). Pretty much all the criticism I see has to do with poor storytelling choices and butchering of characters and storylines. Nothing of which has anything to do with what D&D have to say about it after the fact. 

I agree with you. All of those storylines are completely isolated from each other. It was a major problem with the books, and made them a very frustrating read at times.  And also without exception every single one of them has been amended on the show to draw them all closer to other plots to establish the connection. 

- Brienne, instead of having no connection to any other plot in the book for 75% of her arc, now meets Sansa and LF early, which then connects her to the Winterfell arc. At this point the viewers understand the reason why they are watching. 

- Tyrion meets Varys and Jorah early, connecting him to Danys arc, he meets Dany early, the connection is made there. 

- Aryas is the most isolated of the stories I agree, but even her arc was given Mace Tyrell and Meryn Trant.

- The Iron Islands plot seems to have Theon in it this year and probably his sister too. 

- Dorne now has Jamie and Bronn, and Oberyns paramour to help viewers understand the connection in this new and unfamiliar landscape. 

Danys plot has always been isolated, and from season 2 onwards its been a bit of an issue because while at first you assume she will join up with the other Westeros plots and invade, it simply doesn't happen. Its a common complaint of her plot that it just doesn't seem to be going anywhere and is stalling. At least moving Tyrion there early gave viewers a feel that there is going to be some forward momentum eventually.

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And I disagree that Sansa's plot goes nowhere. Does she change the outcome of the battle of Winterfell? No, but why the hell should she? Why are you asking for huge changes to the outcome of the overall plot, why does that have to be her role? The change in her plot was to bring her storyline closer to all the others, and to stop a major character sitting it out on the sidelines for an entire season twiddling her thumbs. 

The Winterfell plot moves ahead, and Sansa is there in the middle of it. Thats all thats required. 





 

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