Hayyoth Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What about the back story of the mayor, the shrink and Rachel's father? LOL. So much too much of everything. I guess I'm supposed to assume that no back up came to help them with an insane machine gun battle going on..on purpose to get them all killed? Likely they were set up or something. Jeez I don't know what's going on most of the time. Noir is supposed to be complex with opaque plot development, but this is ridiculous. Still at the end when Bezzerides and Ray were shitting themselves in the aftermath of the shootout (as you would) Woodrugh just holstered his weapon as cool as a cucumber, that was totally on point, That dude must have seen some serious action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Likely they were set up or something. Jeez I don't know what's going on most of the time. Noir is supposed to be complex with opaque plot development, but this is ridiculous. Still at the end when Bezzerides and Ray were shitting themselves in the aftermath of the shootout (as you would) Woodrugh just holstered his weapon as cool as a cucumber, that was totally on point, That dude must have seen some serious action. Yeah, it's too much. So, we've got your basic Chinatown real estate/mob scam, then why also the bird mask, and burning the guy's eyes out with acid, really? LOL. And is there going to be a plot tie in with Rachel's father and his cult? The shoot out was great. Was it me, or did Colin fail to shoot the guy from behind because he wasn't sure he could make the shot? That's what I got out of it. Yes, his look of semi confusion at the other two looking all shattered and fucked up was great. I think you are right about VV, it's the timing. They also give him some extremely bizarre dialogue to pull off. As soon as I finally think he's gotten into the groove...the whole thing falls apart and I find him unbelievable as a mob heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yeah I agree that one of the best parts of the shoot out was how at ease Kitschs character was during it after being a complete fuck up the whole episode. Still not sold on his character though and think the show might've benefited from just focusing on Bezzerides and Velcoro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yeah I agree that one of the best parts of the shoot out was how at ease Kitschs character was during it after being a complete fuck up the whole episode. Still not sold on his character though and think the show might've benefited from just focusing on Bezzerides and Velcoro. I wish they had mixed up these standard noir/cop tropes a bit more. Like instead of CF being the cop that went vigilante over his wife's rape...why not give that to Rachel over a murdered husband, for something different. Instead of hard ass female cop can't have a relationship, gee, I've never seen this before except 100 times, leave it out or leave it with gay/not gay boy. Kitsch is growing on me, except for the crazy 10 second: cool, family, let's go...since we know exactly where this will go... I still think the mayor and his family belong in a different show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 But...who cares that they can't conceive? Really? Is this supposed to be a gripping storyline? I guess it would tie things together nicely - especially if he was somehow indirectly responsible. What about the back story of the mayor, the shrink and Rachel's father? LOL. So much too much of everything. I guess I'm supposed to assume that no back up came to help them with an insane machine gun battle going on..on purpose to get them all killed? They did turn up - just slightly too late. The scene was in "real time" so I think we can forgive the response time. The question is how easily they were led into a trap. Shit luck for the protesters who got in the line of fire too. Yeah I agree that one of the best parts of the shoot out was how at ease Kitschs character was during it after being a complete fuck up the whole episode. Still not sold on his character though and think the show might've benefited from just focusing on Bezzerides and Velcoro. It was good to see him be functional although all the leads had their shit together in that scene. I actually liked Farrel's post adrenalin come down too. It does seem like the writer has trouble with dialogue involving a crowd. It'd be nice to see the three leads in a car together but it seems the plot goes out the way to allow them to shuffle around constantly. The "2 stain" meme for VV is one of those things I'd have been all conspiratorial over last season thinking "what does it mean?". Now I know it's just there for me to think "what does it mean" as opposed to having any meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Agreed on the shootout, that was a nice touch about how different Kitsch's character reacted than everybody else. What about the back story of the mayor, the shrink and Rachel's father? LOL. So much too much of everything. I guess I'm supposed to assume that no back up came to help them with an insane machine gun battle going on..on purpose to get them all killed? If the plot is that the land was made toxic on purpose to drive down the price, that's a long, long conspiracy. I'm guessing the roots of it dated all the way back the late '70s/early '80s and all those people were involved in setting it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Agreed on the shootout, that was a nice touch about how different Kitsch's character reacted than everybody else. If the plot is that the land was made toxic on purpose to drive down the price, that's a long, long conspiracy. I'm guessing the roots of it dated all the way back the late '70s/early '80s and all those people were involved in setting it up. It's a thing in the western states were connected folks buy land decades in advance of major infrastructure builds like freeways and airports. It's usually done via front companies staffed by cousins and in-laws. So yeah it's a plot grounded in realism, but there's so much other crap being thrown around, and I think they've decided to add all these extra elements because let's face it crooked land deals don't make for great TV compared to the yella king. Also I thought originally the birdman might have been a homage to the Maltese Falcon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If the plot is that the land was made toxic on purpose to drive down the price, that's a long, long conspiracy. I'm guessing the roots of it dated all the way back the late '70s/early '80s and all those people were involved in setting it up. It seems like a lot of people seem to think that this is the crux of the plot. But there's some occult element in there as well that we haven't touched on. We know about A bird figure, both Velcoro's shooter and the figure in the car next to dead Caspere Apparently ritualistic removal of the eyes of two victims so far Repeated mention of secretive 'parties' up north Bezzerides' father's connection to other powerholders (the mayor) through 'spiritual movements' some decades back I think the plot is about more than just the money and the power and the railway. The real connection to True Detective's first season will likely be through some sinister, religious conspiracy lurking beneath the surface, just like in the first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 That was a fun shoot-out scene and reflected the characters really well but the early part of the episode was boring and pretty pointless. Having established Frank's humanity in the first two episodes through his concern for Ray and his partnership with his wife, he was not at all believable as a tough mobster menacing his way around town to extort money from old deals while being a maximum asshole to his wife. Ray is still the best character, especially now that he isn't quite so drunk. Ani predictably didn't listen to Ray's warning and lashed out at her boss, who is not at fault there. I thought perhaps Paul was ready for some acceptance but instead he's grasping at a long term beard solution (that story line feels really old). For the case and for the audience, the shootout is a distraction. There are so many dangling hints still be resolved: parties up north & the missing girl, mayor's son who organizes parties, bird mask, connections to the cult, mayor's wife committed & suicide, etc. It's very like how the Yellow King and associated cult & conspiracy was built up in S1 (remember the movie they found) but was then resolved unsatisfactorily as a lone serial killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 That escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand. Other than that though, first episode I didn't care about that much. I still like the investigation stuff, but there's not nearly enough of that and way too much on the inner damaged lives on uninteresting people. Dammit! Ninja'd! I was going to quote that line. :) Agreed on the shootout, that was a nice touch about how different Kitsch's character reacted than everybody else. This was when Kitsch's character finally worked for me. It was the first time he actually looked comfortable in his own skin this whole season, which was a good story-telling/actor moment. I thought the slovenly drunk cop was the one who followed him and took pictures, but now it looks like he's dead, so he won't be able to blackmail Woodrugh? Wondering where that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Seems like I'm alone in this, but I think this episode was the best of the season so far. The mystery is finally evolving, and the characters are getting decent character developments. Kitsch showed some range for the first time ever. The shootout at the end was pretty exiting, with an unexpected high body count. I won't say it's great television, but at least I'm hooked for the rest of the season (which wasn't a certainty last week). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Seems like I'm alone in this, but I think this episode was the best of the season so far. The mystery is finally evolving, and the characters are getting decent character developments. Kitsch showed some range for the first time ever. The shootout at the end was pretty exiting, with an unexpected high body count. I won't say it's great television, but at least I'm hooked for the rest of the season (which wasn't a certainty last week).I enjoyed it, just not sure how the open ends come together. But the first season never really gave you the full answer either so, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 This show is a gonzo mess, but I love it. I even like Vince Vaughn, the uncomfortable, impotent, wannabe intellectual, actually giving his subordinate a vocabulary question -"You know the word louche?" But even though he's not terribly convincing at acting tough, he actually is kind of tough. I want more Good People, more Rick Springfield channeling Dr. Jacobi from Twin Peaks...but apparently next week I'm getting less mustache? You would think the elimination of a major character like Velcoro's mustache wouldn't be spoiled in the "next week on"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Seems like I'm alone in this, but I think this episode was the best of the season so far. The mystery is finally evolving, and the characters are getting decent character developments. Kitsch showed some range for the first time ever. The shootout at the end was pretty exiting, with an unexpected high body count. I won't say it's great television, but at least I'm hooked for the rest of the season (which wasn't a certainty last week).:agree:Loved the shootout scene, and Paul finally being relevant. Dan Dority....I mean Dixon getting his head blown off suprised me, and Kelly Reilly looked gorgeous in her white dress at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isis Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 After this week's ep I feel like Frank makes more sense to me. In the first few eps it seemed like everyone had the odd bit of shitty dialogue but that's seems to have smoothed out and now it looks like Frank has this image of himself as some Mafioso dude from a 1970s film and he just spouts these soundbites. He reminds me another fictional character in this way, but I'm blanking on it right now. He has a pretty high opinion of himself anyhow. You can see that from the way he interacts with his wife too. I watched with subtitles this week and it was much, much better. No headache from straining to hear. I loved the 'you're a mood ring' comment. Auras LOL.Those of you who aren't enjoying it should maybe just go and watch season one again. I like this season. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalle Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 wow lot of hate and criticism towards the show on here, i find it very harsh, it wasnt like all the detailes in the first season was crystal clear either with the pastor and the Church scools and jumping from one victim to another and it didnt need it to be, it was still really strong. Come on guys the first episodes of season one was also kind of slow moving and the acting was not top notch from the beginning either. I agree that the first episodes acting was not strong but its getting better with every episode from everyone. I was worried Before the show aired because i saw statements about it being much lighter in tone than the first season, that has hardly been the case so far to my delight, its feverish and dark and plays alot like a James Ellroy novell which i love. Im hardly gonna turn around anyone but i dare you to come up with a better cop drama that is airing now? lol.If its so boring that you fall asleep everytime, why bother turning in for every episode, double lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That's a very strange post, kalle. Compared to the reviews online this morning, this thread seems fawning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smegma Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm in the minority in that the Vince Vaughn casting never bothered me, and it hasn't been his acting that I've had an issue with but rather the inane dialog. I couldn't decide whether it was Pizzolatto trying to show off how smart he is and created this convoluted mess of a character, or if he intentionally wrote him as someone trying to appear smarter and more philosophical than he actually is. That bit about "knowing what louche is" made me lean towards the latter, but I'm not convinced it isn't also the former. I came into this season not liking Rachel McAdams or Kelly Reilly at all. I haven't changed my mind about either of them yet. A good portion of that is the writing, but I don't think either actor is bringing anything to the role, either - but I realize that may be my bias against these two particular actors. However, I know it's been laughed at before, but I still can't get over the pseudo-intellectual gall to name a character Antigone. Really? Are you trying that hard? And her line yesterday - "you don't remember those memories, they remember you" had me laughing out loud. There's way too many instances of this. I've always been on team Colin Farrell, so he's been the best part of the series for me - both acting and character-wise. As others have voiced, the closeted gay man isn't compelling for this story, and neither is a woman that takes it up the butt or watches porn. He's trying so hard with the "dysfunction" that it's eye-roll inducing. I have very little exposure to Kitsch except as Gambit, so I have no preconceived notions for his acting and that hasn't been an issue for me. This criticisms aren't in comparison to last season, but rather independent issues that have arisen from the strength of the writing. I'll continue to watch because it's halfway over already, but it has been one hot mess. Granted, one hot mess that I do think about a lot, and I guess maybe that's enough??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalle Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes Triskas maybe it is, maybe i was surprised of the number of people who didnt like it. I had high expectations myself but only Thinks the first episode has been under par so far.Really? thats even more strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm just so conflicted...I want to know what's going on. I'm still trying to figure out how they're going to get there. And they just had to find a way to top the season one shoot out in episode four, didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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